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Puck
The Texan
Joined: 05 Jan 2004
Posts: 5596
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 Mon Aug 16, 2004 5:31 pm Archaeologists: John the Baptist Cave Found |
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Archaeologists: John the Baptist Cave Found
Monday, August 16, 2004
KIBBUTZ TZUBA, Israel � Archaeologists said Monday they have found a cave where they believe John the Baptist (search) anointed many of his disciples � a huge cistern with 28 steps leading to an underground pool of water.
During an exclusive tour of the cave by The Associated Press, archaeologists presented wall carvings they said tell the story of the fiery New Testament preacher, as well as a stone they believe was used for ceremonial foot washing.
They also pulled about 250,000 pottery shards from the cave, the apparent remnants of small water jugs used in baptismal ritual.
"John the Baptist, who was just a figure from the Gospels, now comes to life," said British archaeologist Shimon Gibson, who supervised the dig outside Jerusalem.
However, others said there was no proof that John the Baptist ever set foot in the cave, about 2 1/2 miles from Ein Kerem, the preacher's hometown and now part of Jerusalem.
"Unfortunately, we didn't find any inscriptions," said James Tabor, a religious studies professor at the University of North Carolina at Charlotte.
Tabor and his students have participated in the excavations.
Both Tabor and Gibson said it was very likely that the wall carvings, including one showing a man with a staff and wearing animal skin, told the story of John the Baptist. The carvings stem from the Byzantine period and apparently were made by monks in the fourth or fifth century.
Gibson said he believed the monks commemorated John at a site linked to him by local tradition.
Gibson said the carvings, the foot washing stone and other finds, taken together with the proximity of John's hometown, constituted strong circumstantial evidence that the cave was used by John.
John, a contemporary of Jesus who also preached a message of redemption, is one of the most important figures in Christianity. The discovery, if confirmed, would be among the most significant breakthroughs for biblical scholars in memory.
The cave is on the property of Kibbutz Tzuba, an Israeli communal farm just outside Jerusalem. A member of the kibbutz, Reuven Kalifon, knew of the cave's existence � the community's nectarine orchards run right up to the mouth of the cave � but it was filled with soil almost to the ceiling.
In 1999, Kalifon asked Gibson to inspect the cave more closely.
The archaeologist, who has excavated in the Holy Land for three decades, crawled through the small opening and began removing boulders near the wall of the cave. When he pushed aside one of the stones, he saw a head carved into the wall � the top of the figure he believes depicts John.
Gibson, who heads the Jerusalem Archaeological Field Unit (search), a private research group, organized an excavation. During the five-year project, he wrote a book, entitled "The Cave of John the Baptist," to be published later this week.
Gibson said the cave � 24 yards long, around four yards wide and four yards deep � was carved in the Iron Age, somewhere between 800 and 500 B.C., by the Israelites who apparently used it as an immersion pool.
"It apparently was adopted by John the Baptist, who wanted a place where he could bring people to undergo their rituals, pertaining to his ideas of baptism," Gibson said.
Believers would have walked down 28 stone steps. To their right, they would have discarded their clothes in a niche carved into the wall.
At the bottom of the steps, they would have placed the right foot onto a stone with an imprint of a foot. A small depression to the right of the imprint would have contained oil, to be poured over the foot for cleansing, Gibson said.
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Defiant
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 04 Jul 2001
Posts: 15946
Location: Oregon City, OR
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| Tue Aug 17, 2004 11:50 pm |
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*beep*.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Tue Aug 17, 2004 11:52 pm |
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Why that? And this is great news, something that I believe too! See, some proof of the religion.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Jeff Miller
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 22 Nov 2001
Posts: 23947
Location: Mental Ward for the Mentaly Unstable 6th floor, Saint John's 1615 Delaware Longview Washington 98632
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| Tue Aug 17, 2004 11:55 pm |
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Hmm, I would like to see more proof if possible anyone can find a cave.
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| ~Tony Montana wrote: | | You know what you need people like me people for you to snub your nose at and point at saying there is a bad man. Well guess what This bad man is leaving. Say goodnight to the BAD MAN! |
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Defiant
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 04 Jul 2001
Posts: 15946
Location: Oregon City, OR
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| Wed Aug 18, 2004 1:17 am |
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I said b u l l s h i t.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Wed Aug 18, 2004 1:18 am |
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| Defiant wrote: | | I said b u l l s h i t. |
I knew that it was a bad word, I just don't think that it's appropriate.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Defiant
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 04 Jul 2001
Posts: 15946
Location: Oregon City, OR
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| Wed Aug 18, 2004 1:28 am |
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Its not proof. In any way. Its pure speculation and crap.
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Link, the Hero of Time
Vice Admiral
Joined: 15 Sep 2001
Posts: 5581
Location: Kokori Forest, Hyrule
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| Wed Aug 18, 2004 3:02 pm |
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But Defiant, Archaeology is made up mostly of speculation, I should know, I'm going to college for it.
One of the first things you're taught in class is Occam's Razor, "The simpilest soultion is usually the best."
| Quote: | | Gibson said the carvings, the foot washing stone and other finds, taken together with the proximity of John's hometown, constituted strong circumstantial evidence that the cave was used by John. |
Here is a perfect example of Archaeologists using Occam's Razor.
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Defiant
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 04 Jul 2001
Posts: 15946
Location: Oregon City, OR
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| Wed Aug 18, 2004 9:23 pm |
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LOL, awesome. Go archaeology.
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GhostOfAMemory
Star-crossed Voyager
Joined: 06 Sep 2003
Posts: 4322
Location: My computer... duh
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| Wed Aug 18, 2004 10:58 pm |
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That's pathetic, dismissing an archaeological find that could infact be true because you happen to not agree with it. I don't know eather it's the cave john the baptist used, but... I think it's really sad ya'll would dismiss it so easily 
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
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| Wed Aug 18, 2004 11:05 pm |
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| GhostOfAMemory wrote: | | That's pathetic, dismissing an archaeological find that could infact be true because you happen to not agree with it. I don't know eather it's the cave john the baptist used, but... I think it's really sad ya'll would dismiss it so easily |
Agreed. I agree with that.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Gondor Girl
Princess of Ithilien
Joined: 27 Sep 2003
Posts: 3966
Location: Henneth Anun, Ithilien
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| Wed Aug 18, 2004 11:08 pm |
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I agree with that. It's really really sad. Tisk! Tisk! I say to you people, Tisk!
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West wind blew there; the light upon the Silver Tree
Fell like bright rain in the gardens of the Kings of old
O proud walls! White towers! O winged crown and throne of gold...
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Captain Dappet
Forum Revolutionist
Joined: 06 Feb 2002
Posts: 16756
Location: On my supersonic rocket ship.
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| Sat Aug 21, 2004 8:43 am |
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It doesnt prove anything, really. People who are written about in the Bible may very well have existed, I dont argue with that. What I do argue with is that any of them did miracles or anything.
So, if they found the cave...Go them. It's a cave, that supposedly could've belonged to some religious fanatic and his followers thousands of years ago.
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