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Ronevick
The King
Joined: 23 May 2003
Posts: 11428
Location: (609), New Jersey
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 Mon Aug 16, 2004 3:04 pm |
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| gul Lemek III. wrote: | | And I respect the writers for putting the show on an immobile station and still get the plots going. For example: Voyager and TNG cruise around the vastness of space and, logically, they bump into things and make plots out of it. But in DS9, writers had to ponder more about the plots, they had to "compose" them, like artists, and that's what so beautiful about DS9. |
Yeah, and DS9 I think "flows" more. Instead of each episode having to do with something totally different from the last, the writers made it so that each episode generally adds something to the general plot of the entire show. Did that make any sense?lol
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Lindley
Vice Admiral
Joined: 18 Sep 2001
Posts: 6194
Location: Fairfax, VA
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| Tue Aug 17, 2004 12:09 am |
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| Ronevick wrote: | | gul Lemek III. wrote: | | And I respect the writers for putting the show on an immobile station and still get the plots going. For example: Voyager and TNG cruise around the vastness of space and, logically, they bump into things and make plots out of it. But in DS9, writers had to ponder more about the plots, they had to "compose" them, like artists, and that's what so beautiful about DS9. |
Yeah, and DS9 I think "flows" more. Instead of each episode having to do with something totally different from the last, the writers made it so that each episode generally adds something to the general plot of the entire show. Did that make any sense?lol |
There's a name for it. Its called arc-based storytelling.
Its a format which is taken to its max in shows like Babylon 5 and 24; DS9 tended to have a good balance between arc-based story and standalone story.
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kokori
Ensign
Joined: 12 Mar 2002
Posts: 60
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| Tue Aug 17, 2004 12:15 am Re: Should DS9 Should have been a Starship? |
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| chakotay99 wrote: | | TOS, TNG, VOY, ENT are all based on Starships and not on space stations like Deep Space Nine. Do you think the show would have been worse or better if it was set also on a ship and not on a station? |
To most people it would have been better on a ship, but i like the station better because i like change.
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gul Lemek III.
Commodore
Joined: 04 May 2004
Posts: 1513
Location: Slovenia
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| Tue Aug 17, 2004 3:56 am |
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| Lindley wrote: | | Ronevick wrote: | | gul Lemek III. wrote: | | And I respect the writers for putting the show on an immobile station and still get the plots going. For example: Voyager and TNG cruise around the vastness of space and, logically, they bump into things and make plots out of it. But in DS9, writers had to ponder more about the plots, they had to "compose" them, like artists, and that's what so beautiful about DS9. |
Yeah, and DS9 I think "flows" more. Instead of each episode having to do with something totally different from the last, the writers made it so that each episode generally adds something to the general plot of the entire show. Did that make any sense?lol |
There's a name for it. Its called arc-based storytelling.
Its a format which is taken to its max in shows like Babylon 5 and 24; DS9 tended to have a good balance between arc-based story and standalone story. |
Then I guess I like arc storytelling 
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1/1
Rear Admiral
Joined: 12 Apr 2002
Posts: 3311
Location: La La Land
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| Tue Aug 17, 2004 9:19 am |
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I think I would have got into DS9 if it were a ship. But then it would have lost quite a few DS9 fans.
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Sonic74205
Rear Admiral
Joined: 01 Feb 2004
Posts: 4081
Location: England
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| Tue Aug 17, 2004 1:15 pm |
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I defiantly think that DS9 is WAY better as a station, it shows it's individualality.
With this worf on defiant thing, has anyone ever realised that in the missions in Armada that worf is in command of the defiant.
And yeah thats pretty funny the way that they allways manage to get worf onboard the enterprise. 
-------signature-------
<a href="<img>http://sonic.11.forumer.com</a>
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kokori
Ensign
Joined: 12 Mar 2002
Posts: 60
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| Tue Aug 17, 2004 6:38 pm |
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How could worf be on the enterprise when he suppose to be ambassador to Q'ronos under chancellor martok following ds9 departure? Strange he always found a way to be on the enterprise.
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Hitchhiker
Rear Admiral
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 3514
Location: Ontario, Canada
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| Tue Aug 17, 2004 7:16 pm |
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| kokori wrote: | | How could worf be on the enterprise when he suppose to be ambassador to Q'ronos under chancellor martok following ds9 departure? Strange he always found a way to be on the enterprise. |
He came to Alaska for Troi and Riker's wedding, then went along for the adventure to meet with Shinzon.
(In other words, he read the script! )
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kokori
Ensign
Joined: 12 Mar 2002
Posts: 60
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| Wed Aug 18, 2004 3:31 pm |
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Im not talking about riker and deanna trois wedding i can see worf getting off for that but im talking about every movie he is on the enterprise, it seems odd he is always on the enterprise at the right time and never no where else.
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Hitchhiker
Rear Admiral
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 3514
Location: Ontario, Canada
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| Wed Aug 18, 2004 3:57 pm |
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| kokori wrote: | | Im not talking about riker and deanna trois wedding i can see worf getting off for that but im talking about every movie he is on the enterprise, it seems odd he is always on the enterprise at the right time and never no where else. |
There's always an excuse.
Generations: Still a crew member.
First Contact: Rescued from the Defiant after the Borg cube came.
Insurrection: Setting up security on Deep Space 7, stopped by.
Nemesis: The Wedding.
Secretly it's because Worf is still a member of the TNG cast.
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kokori
Ensign
Joined: 12 Mar 2002
Posts: 60
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| Wed Aug 18, 2004 10:34 pm |
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But never being an ambassador as he suppose to be, is the conclusion i dont know why they even put in the part at the end of ds9 him accepting the part as ambassador from martok when he has never stepped a foot out of federation space since the series ended. So what if he is still part of the tng crew, why not show him as an ambassador on enterprise instead of a tactical officer in the movies. 
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Ronevick
The King
Joined: 23 May 2003
Posts: 11428
Location: (609), New Jersey
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| Thu Aug 19, 2004 10:15 am |
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He's always there because without Worf it's not the real TNG cast, and no one wants some nobody tactical officer these days. 
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kokori
Ensign
Joined: 12 Mar 2002
Posts: 60
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| Fri Aug 20, 2004 4:40 pm |
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Well then i guess martok is saving the job for worf when he is an old fat klingon.
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Lindley
Vice Admiral
Joined: 18 Sep 2001
Posts: 6194
Location: Fairfax, VA
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| Fri Aug 20, 2004 7:21 pm |
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Worf functioned in the capacity of Federation Ambassador to Quo'nos for several years before Nemesis. One might assume that he was still an ambassador at that point, or not; it doesn't matter a whole lot to what came before.
As for why Nemesis didn't use him in an ambassadorial role.....I heard that Logan (the primary writer of Nemesis) hadn't watched much DS9.
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kokori
Ensign
Joined: 12 Mar 2002
Posts: 60
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| Sat Aug 21, 2004 12:34 am |
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I see, thats answers my question. I vote for a new writer (1)
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commanderbj
Captain
Joined: 10 May 2002
Posts: 714
Location: At Home Being A Geek
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| Sat Aug 21, 2004 2:56 am |
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the Station is better
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Morphy
Forum Ogre
Joined: 15 Jun 2001
Posts: 3858
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| Sat Aug 21, 2004 9:28 pm |
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The station concept definitely worked.
I just watched all seven seasons of DS9 over the last 2 months from netflix DVD rentals. After watching all the episodes, I am even more convinced that DS9 is not only Star Trek's best series, but it is the best scifi program (that was not abruptly canceled --  -- my precious Firefly).
DS9's arc based storytelling suited well for casual and fanatic trekkies. If the arc stretched across too many episodes, then the causal watchers would loose sense of the plot and with that their interest.
Other thoughts on this thread:
24's success was due to their season long arc. I can see that ST:ENT tried to pick up on this success with season 3. Although it started slowly, the ending was nothing less than great storytelling.
Worf's injection into DS9 mid way through the series neither hurt nor helped. This character was bland. DS9 was in good shape and did not need him. This was unlike the injection of seven into VOY. Seven helped that series a ton.
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Ronevick
The King
Joined: 23 May 2003
Posts: 11428
Location: (609), New Jersey
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| Sat Aug 21, 2004 10:17 pm |
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I agree with what you're saying about Worf. Of all the DS9 characters they developed him the least, but that may just be because they did a lot of stuff on him in TNG. Also, DS9's popularity is most likely because of the arc based storytelling. At the end of each episode, it leaves you wanting to know more.
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Entropy
Freshman Cadet
Joined: 09 Aug 2004
Posts: 9
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| Sun Aug 22, 2004 5:00 am |
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For me, DS9 was all about the characters. Dax, Obrien, Odo, Bashir, Garak... these heavily developed characters and their relationships were the core of the show. Worf did alright. His relationship with both Dax's was good. And his Klingon Empire episodes (soldiers of the empire etc) were great.
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gul Lemek III.
Commodore
Joined: 04 May 2004
Posts: 1513
Location: Slovenia
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| Sun Aug 22, 2004 5:13 am |
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That's waht I liked about it. The writers focused on each and every character and you felt like they were real.
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Angeldust
The Mob Queen
Joined: 28 Jul 2004
Posts: 6498
Location: In your most wonderful, screwed up dreams. :P
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| Sun Aug 22, 2004 5:40 am |
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I think having DS9 on a station is what made is so great. The writers didn't have to worry about where in the quadrant the ship was... so they could concentrate on the characters and creating great stories. I loved DS9 for that. I totally agree about that.
-------signature-------
"You want to dance with the angels? Then embroider me with gold; and I will fly with the angels...and you can dance with me."
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Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant
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| Sun Aug 22, 2004 12:02 pm |
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| Morphy wrote: | | Worf's injection into DS9 mid way through the series neither hurt nor helped. This character was bland. DS9 was in good shape and did not need him. This was unlike the injection of seven into VOY. Seven helped that series a ton. |
What are you talking about? His charecter was developed in many episodes. The one where his brother came to the station. Killing Gowron. Marrying Jadzia. I know im missing many mire. Worf was developed nicely. No charecter was missed on that show.
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Ronevick
The King
Joined: 23 May 2003
Posts: 11428
Location: (609), New Jersey
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| Sun Aug 22, 2004 12:07 pm |
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Yes, but Worf was still barely developed compared to the other characters on the show.
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Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant
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| Sun Aug 22, 2004 12:10 pm |
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True....but he came in late though. Besides in a way, his development started in TNG. Comparing from there to the end of DS9, his charecter was developed a lot.
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Ronevick
The King
Joined: 23 May 2003
Posts: 11428
Location: (609), New Jersey
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| Sun Aug 22, 2004 12:23 pm |
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Yeah, that's what I said a few posts ago. They couldn't develop him as much because they already had done a lot about Worf throughout the seasons of TNG.
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