| Do you support Capital Punishment? |
| Yes |
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42% |
[ 12 ] |
| No |
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39% |
[ 11 ] |
| Undecided |
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17% |
[ 5 ] |
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| Total Votes : 28 |
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Gondor Girl
Princess of Ithilien
Joined: 27 Sep 2003
Posts: 3966
Location: Henneth Anun, Ithilien
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 Thu Aug 12, 2004 11:23 pm |
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I'm reading a lot of these posts that are talking about how one must forgive someone who has done something seriously wrong like murdering or raping someone. But if I remember correctly, wasn't it written somewhere in the Pentateuch that God gave full permission for someone to kill someone else, if that someone else had killed someone close to the first mentioned person. If I remember correctly, the only way that the person wasn't allowed to kill the other person was if the murderer was in one of four or five sanctuary-type cities. And besides, doesn't anybody remember what God did to the guy that merely stole something from a ruined city He ordered no one to rob? That was just for stealing something.
-------signature-------
Gondor! Gondor, between the mountains and the sea
West wind blew there; the light upon the Silver Tree
Fell like bright rain in the gardens of the Kings of old
O proud walls! White towers! O winged crown and throne of gold...
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IntrepidIsMe
Pimp Handed
Joined: 14 Jun 2002
Posts: 13057
Location: New York
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| Thu Aug 12, 2004 11:26 pm |
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That's why Christianity doesn't accept that the first five books of the bible as entirely true; as we'd be going around not associating with women who were menstruating, and we'd be killing people for wearing two different kinds of cloth at the same time, as well as those who planted two crops in the same field, 
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Hitchhiker
Rear Admiral
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 3514
Location: Ontario, Canada
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| Thu Aug 12, 2004 11:27 pm |
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Yes, but capital punishment is just a legal form of revenge. I don't like revenge all that much, because I don't like lowering myself to that person's level. They may condone killing, but I do not.
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Gondor Girl
Princess of Ithilien
Joined: 27 Sep 2003
Posts: 3966
Location: Henneth Anun, Ithilien
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| Thu Aug 12, 2004 11:48 pm |
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| IntrepidIsMe wrote: | | That's why Christianity doesn't accept that the first five books of the bible as entirely true; as we'd be going around not associating with women who were menstruating, and we'd be killing people for wearing two different kinds of cloth at the same time, as well as those who planted two crops in the same field, |
I don't mean to be irritating or anything, but Christianity does accept the first five books as being entirely true. I'm not sure where you got that we don't, but we do. Maybe some small group of wierd Christians don't accept the Pentateuch, but on the whole, Christians believe every word of the entire Bible, including the Pentateuch. I'm sorry, but whoever you heard that from was sorely mistaken.
-------signature-------
Gondor! Gondor, between the mountains and the sea
West wind blew there; the light upon the Silver Tree
Fell like bright rain in the gardens of the Kings of old
O proud walls! White towers! O winged crown and throne of gold...
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Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant
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| Thu Aug 12, 2004 11:51 pm |
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I agree. I was under the impression Christians believed in the whole Bible. Im Catholic and I know we do.
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Gondor Girl
Princess of Ithilien
Joined: 27 Sep 2003
Posts: 3966
Location: Henneth Anun, Ithilien
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| Thu Aug 12, 2004 11:58 pm |
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Well, your impression is correct. I am a Christian. I know we do.
-------signature-------
Gondor! Gondor, between the mountains and the sea
West wind blew there; the light upon the Silver Tree
Fell like bright rain in the gardens of the Kings of old
O proud walls! White towers! O winged crown and throne of gold...
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Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant
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| Fri Aug 13, 2004 12:02 am |
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Its probably like you said, its a small group of Christians that don't believe in it.
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IntrepidIsMe
Pimp Handed
Joined: 14 Jun 2002
Posts: 13057
Location: New York
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| Fri Aug 13, 2004 12:22 am |
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| Gondor Girl wrote: | | IntrepidIsMe wrote: | | That's why Christianity doesn't accept that the first five books of the bible as entirely true; as we'd be going around not associating with women who were menstruating, and we'd be killing people for wearing two different kinds of cloth at the same time, as well as those who planted two crops in the same field, |
I don't mean to be irritating or anything, but Christianity does accept the first five books as being entirely true. I'm not sure where you got that we don't, but we do. Maybe some small group of wierd Christians don't accept the Pentateuch, but on the whole, Christians believe every word of the entire Bible, including the Pentateuch. I'm sorry, but whoever you heard that from was sorely mistaken. |
What I meant was that we don't go around killing people for asinine reasons, if we accepted the first five books of the bible as entirely true, we'd be killing people all the time. We'd also be entirely discounting the theory of evolution (which the church [at least the Catholic one] agrees with on some level) and the big bang theory (which the catholic church also agrees with on a level). I guess the entire Catholic Church is that "small group of weird christians"
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Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant
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| Fri Aug 13, 2004 12:26 am |
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| IntrepidIsMe wrote: | | Gondor Girl wrote: | | IntrepidIsMe wrote: | | That's why Christianity doesn't accept that the first five books of the bible as entirely true; as we'd be going around not associating with women who were menstruating, and we'd be killing people for wearing two different kinds of cloth at the same time, as well as those who planted two crops in the same field, |
I don't mean to be irritating or anything, but Christianity does accept the first five books as being entirely true. I'm not sure where you got that we don't, but we do. Maybe some small group of wierd Christians don't accept the Pentateuch, but on the whole, Christians believe every word of the entire Bible, including the Pentateuch. I'm sorry, but whoever you heard that from was sorely mistaken. |
What I meant was that we don't go around killing people for asinine reasons, if we accepted the first five books of the bible as entirely true, we'd be killing people all the time. We'd also be entirely discounting the theory of evolution (which the church [at least the Catholic one] agrees with on some level) and the big bang theory (which the catholic church also agrees with on a level). I guess the entire Catholic Church is that "small group of weird christians" |
Im Catholic and uh no. We are not "a small group of weird Chrisitans". The Catholic Church DOES believe in the first 5 chapters of the Bible. We are slightly open to the theory of Evolution based on the fact that the first humans to evolve are Adam and Eve. Big Bang theory is slightly acceptable IF God made it happen.
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IntrepidIsMe
Pimp Handed
Joined: 14 Jun 2002
Posts: 13057
Location: New York
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| Fri Aug 13, 2004 12:39 am |
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I'm Catholic and uh yes.
| GondorGirl wrote: | | Maybe some small group of wierd Christians don't accept the Pentateuch |
She said that the christians who don't entirely believe the first five books of the bible were a "small group of weird christians", not me.
And I know the Catholic church accepts the theory of evolution and the big bang theory, that's exactly what I said.
You're contradicting yourself. The bible says that God made the world in seven days, and exactly how it happend. Yet, the big bang theory and the theory of evolution weren't mentioned in the bible.
So clearly, the church DOESN'T accept the first five books of the bible as ENTIRELY true.
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Jeremy
J's Guy
Joined: 03 Oct 2002
Posts: 7823
Location: Aberdeen, Scotland
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| Fri Aug 13, 2004 12:36 pm |
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The Big Bang could have easily taken place over 7 days. It doesn't mention that it was done in a certain way, so it could have been created in a Big Bang. Evolution could have taken place from the days of Adam and Eve. Also remember Evolution is a theory and not fact.
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IntrepidIsMe
Pimp Handed
Joined: 14 Jun 2002
Posts: 13057
Location: New York
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| Fri Aug 13, 2004 1:36 pm |
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Obviously. The bang bang took place within under a second. But I'm sure the Earth and the sun, and the water, and all the animals didn't happen all at once. The church accepts that. As long as you don't question the first five seconds, or something silly such as that. The church intreprets that a "day" as stated in the bible could have been hundreds, thousands, or millions of years, as "god" isn't a slave to time.
Last edited by IntrepidIsMe on Sat Aug 14, 2004 12:20 am; edited 1 time in total
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Hitchhiker
Rear Admiral
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 3514
Location: Ontario, Canada
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| Sat Aug 14, 2004 12:11 am |
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| IntrepidIsMe wrote: | | Obviously. The bang ban took place within under a second. But I'm sure the Earth and the sun, and the water, and all the animals didn't happen all at once. The church accepts that. As long as you don't question the first five seconds, or something silly such as that. The church intreprets that a "day" as stated in the bible could have been hundreds, thousands, or millions of years, as "god" isn't a slave to time. |
The way I heard the story was that the Pope had a bunch of physicists over to the Vatican, where they discussed matters relating to the origin of the universe, and eventually he decided that the Big Bang fit in with Catholicism.
I also found a good essay that attempts to reconcile the Big Bang with Genesis through the use of General Relativity . . . unfortunately I lost the URI somewhere . . . someday I'll find it . . .
Anyway, back to the topic of capital punishment.
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Gondor Girl
Princess of Ithilien
Joined: 27 Sep 2003
Posts: 3966
Location: Henneth Anun, Ithilien
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| Sun Aug 15, 2004 7:09 am |
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Ooooooh this really has escalated, hasn't it?
| IntrepidIsMe wrote: | | GondorGirl wrote: | | Maybe some small group of wierd Christians don't accept the Pentateuch |
She said that the christians who don't entirely believe the first five books of the bible were a "small group of weird christians", not me. |
Okay, that's not entirely true. I did not say that the Catholic Church was some small group of wierd Christians. I may have come up with the wording of some small group of wierd Christians, but you were the one who put it with the Catholic Church. And it would seem that Founder was saying that the Catholic Church did believe entirely in the Pentateuch along with the rest of the Bible.
(I'm firmly rooted in the Presbyterian view of Christianity. I don't believe in Evolution, or that the universe is more than ten-thousand years old. My version of the Big Bang theory is that "God spoke, and "BANG!" it happened. If any of you want to argue this, please, I beg you to IM me and we can have a private debate. I love having these types of debates. I warn you though, come prepared. I put up one heck of a debate on my part, and I have a lot of scientific evidence to back up my beliefs. This is merely posted here to invite you to a nice lovely little debate between you and me. It should be fun.)
-------signature-------
Gondor! Gondor, between the mountains and the sea
West wind blew there; the light upon the Silver Tree
Fell like bright rain in the gardens of the Kings of old
O proud walls! White towers! O winged crown and throne of gold...
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IntrepidIsMe
Pimp Handed
Joined: 14 Jun 2002
Posts: 13057
Location: New York
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| Sun Aug 15, 2004 12:48 pm |
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I applied it because, I've just proven that the Catholic Church doesn't entirely believe 100% of the first 5 books of the bible. You said anybody who did that was "a small group of weird christians". I simply used it.
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Hitchhiker
Rear Admiral
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 3514
Location: Ontario, Canada
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| Sun Aug 15, 2004 1:38 pm |
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Maybe God gave permission to kill somebody else, but that doesn't mean we have to do it. Provided that you believe in free will, we can choose to spare everyone's life. After all, God also said go forth and multiply, but people still use birth control. Aren't rules made to be broken?
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Puck
The Texan
Joined: 05 Jan 2004
Posts: 5596
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| Sun Aug 15, 2004 2:21 pm |
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| Hitchhiker wrote: | | Aren't rules made to be broken? |
No.
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Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant
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| Sun Aug 15, 2004 2:27 pm |
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| IntrepidIsMe wrote: | | I applied it because, I've just proven that the Catholic Church doesn't entirely believe 100% of the first 5 books of the bible. You said anybody who did that was "a small group of weird christians". I simply used it. |
No you haven't. People have "proven" that the Bible may interpret it different. The Big Bang may have only taken 7 days. The first humans to have evolved were Adam and Eve. You've proven nothing.
| Quote: | | Aren't rules made to be broken? |
Im sick of people saying that. They are made to be followed.
Last edited by Founder on Sun Aug 15, 2004 9:49 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Hitchhiker
Rear Admiral
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 3514
Location: Ontario, Canada
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| Sun Aug 15, 2004 3:35 pm |
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| Founder wrote: | | The Big Bang may have only taken 7 days. |
Actually, the Big Bang was the inital explosion that started it all off. It probably lasted only a few seconds. And then there was light. 
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Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant
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| Sun Aug 15, 2004 4:42 pm |
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You know what I mean. 
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Puck
The Texan
Joined: 05 Jan 2004
Posts: 5596
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| Sun Aug 15, 2004 5:08 pm |
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That is if the big-bang was even the beginning of time. 
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IntrepidIsMe
Pimp Handed
Joined: 14 Jun 2002
Posts: 13057
Location: New York
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| Sun Aug 15, 2004 11:28 pm |
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| Founder wrote: | | IntrepidIsMe wrote: | | I applied it because, I've just proven that the Catholic Church doesn't entirely believe 100% of the first 5 books of the bible. You said anybody who did that was "a small group of weird christians". I simply used it. |
No you haven't. People have "proven" that the Bible may interpret it different. The Big Bang may have only taken 7 days. The first humans to have evolved were Adam and Eve. You've proven nothing. |
The Catholic Church doesn't say that the first humans were definitely adam and eve. They concur with evolution, how can we just go from ape to human? What makes a person human, during hundreds of levels of development? When are you human, and no longer ape? The big bang is still happening, the universe is still expanding. But, according to the Catholic Church, time doesn't matter, either. As a "day" for god, could be enternity for us.
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Hitchhiker
Rear Admiral
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 3514
Location: Ontario, Canada
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| Mon Aug 16, 2004 12:00 am |
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| IntrepidIsMe wrote: | | The big bang is still happening, the universe is still expanding. |
Like I said above, just nitpicking . . . the Big Bang was just the actual explosion. Any expansion still occuring is called inflation. Or, if you believe Eric Idle, the ongoin expansion of the universe is due to levity.
Thank you, return to your discussion of the Death Penalty.
::runs::
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IntrepidIsMe
Pimp Handed
Joined: 14 Jun 2002
Posts: 13057
Location: New York
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| Mon Aug 16, 2004 12:05 am |
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Tsk, eitherway, my point was about time not having any meaning for "god", And we are talking about the death penalty, which many people oppose due to religion, and we're discussing why.... In a sense,
-------signature-------
"Nelly, I am Heathcliff! He's always, always in my mind: not as a pleasure, any more than I am always a pleasure to myself, but as my own being."
-Wuthering Heights
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Gondor Girl
Princess of Ithilien
Joined: 27 Sep 2003
Posts: 3966
Location: Henneth Anun, Ithilien
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| Wed Aug 18, 2004 2:22 am |
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| IntrepidIsMe wrote: | | Founder wrote: | | IntrepidIsMe wrote: | | I applied it because, I've just proven that the Catholic Church doesn't entirely believe 100% of the first 5 books of the bible. You said anybody who did that was "a small group of weird christians". I simply used it. |
No you haven't. People have "proven" that the Bible may interpret it different. The Big Bang may have only taken 7 days. The first humans to have evolved were Adam and Eve. You've proven nothing. |
The Catholic Church doesn't say that the first humans were definitely adam and eve. They concur with evolution, how can we just go from ape to human? What makes a person human, during hundreds of levels of development? When are you human, and no longer ape? The big bang is still happening, the universe is still expanding. But, according to the Catholic Church, time doesn't matter, either. As a "day" for god, could be enternity for us. |
You're saying all this, provided that the theory of evolution and the big bang theory is true, both of which there is plenty of scientific evidence refuting and no scientific evidence supporting. I mean, honestly, how can you guys see all these bits of nature and astronomy and honestly think that the universe has been around for billions of years. Thousands of years, not billions, guys.
-------signature-------
Gondor! Gondor, between the mountains and the sea
West wind blew there; the light upon the Silver Tree
Fell like bright rain in the gardens of the Kings of old
O proud walls! White towers! O winged crown and throne of gold...
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