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Puck
The Texan
Joined: 05 Jan 2004
Posts: 5596
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 Wed Aug 04, 2004 3:23 pm Judge in Seattle Rules Gay Couples Can Wed |
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Judge in Seattle Rules Gay Couples Can Wed
Wednesday, August 04, 2004
SEATTLE � A King County (search) Superior Court judge in Seattle (search) ruled Wednesday that gay couples can marry, saying that denying their right to do so would be a violation of their constitutional rights.
"The denial to the plaintiffs of the right to marry constitutes a denial of substantive due process," Judge William L. Downing said in his ruling.
The decision is stayed until the state Supreme Court reviews the case, said Jennifer Pizer, lead counsel for Lambda Legal Defense (search) in the case. The stay means no marriage licenses can be issued until the high court's decision.
"That's totally standard. If it turns out the appellate court disagrees, there would be that much more confusion and difficulty," Pizer said.
"Really the main point is that Judge Downing saw the couples in the court room and he's recognized that they are full and equal citizens of Washington. No more and no less."
Six couples filed the lawsuit in March after they were denied marriage licenses from King County. Two other couples joined the suit later.
A second lawsuit was filed in April by the American Civil Liberties Union (search) on behalf of 11 same-sex couples. The ACLU suit, using similar arguments, contends that the state law violates state and federal constitutions that guarantee equal protection.
Washington is among 38 states with laws defining marriage as a union between a man and a woman. Massachusetts has allowed gay marriage since May. The issue is hotly contested in courts in several other states.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Wed Aug 04, 2004 9:17 pm |
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This is horrible! Once again the courts go over the will of the people.
According to a poll (this was presented on the O'Reilly Factor)
71% of WASHINGTON VOTERS ALONE are anti-gay marriage.
And 80-some percent of AMERICAN voters are anti-gay marriage, but we are becoming a country in which the courts basically rule and make the decisions, NOT the people or those that the people elect.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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DemonClassY
Commodore
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 1986
Location: Pittsburgh, PA, U.S.A
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| Wed Aug 04, 2004 9:20 pm |
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I am so happy. It's about time!
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First city to bring home the Lombardi Trophy and Lord Stanley in the same season!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! GO PENS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Wed Aug 04, 2004 9:32 pm |
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| DemonClassY wrote: | | I am so happy. It's about time! |
No, it's not about time.
MORE THAN 80% of voters in America are OPPOSED TO IT, and yet the courts go above their heads.
Plus, 38 states, Missouri being the most recent, have outlawed Gay Marriage. It's only been allowed throughout the state in Massachussets.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Angeldust
The Mob Queen
Joined: 28 Jul 2004
Posts: 6498
Location: In your most wonderful, screwed up dreams. :P
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| Wed Aug 04, 2004 9:33 pm |
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| Quote: | | This is horrible! Once again the courts go over the will of the people. |
The job of the courts is not to uphold the will of the people, it is to decide whether laws are constitutional. And, in all fairness, banning gay marriage would be against the 14th amendment.
Which Reads:
Section. 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
In short: Banning gay marriage is discrimination against a minority.
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"You want to dance with the angels? Then embroider me with gold; and I will fly with the angels...and you can dance with me."
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Wed Aug 04, 2004 9:36 pm |
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| Angeldust wrote: | | Quote: | | This is horrible! Once again the courts go over the will of the people. |
The job of the courts is not to uphold the will of the people, it is to decide whether laws are constitutional. And, in all fairness, banning gay marriage would be against the 14th amendment.
Which Reads:
Section. 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
In short: Banning gay marriage is discrimination against a minority. |
No, it's not.
But the problem is the courts aren't just analyzing the laws--they are being radical and MAKING the laws. And if the overwhelming amount of people in the country are opposed to it, then the courts should not MAKE THE LAWS, which they are doing and aren't supposed to do anyway. They have WAAAAAAAY to much power now!
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Angeldust
The Mob Queen
Joined: 28 Jul 2004
Posts: 6498
Location: In your most wonderful, screwed up dreams. :P
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| Wed Aug 04, 2004 9:37 pm |
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What do you mean MAKE THE LAWS??? They are upholding the Constitution of the United States, which, need I remind you? Is the law of the land.
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"You want to dance with the angels? Then embroider me with gold; and I will fly with the angels...and you can dance with me."
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Wed Aug 04, 2004 9:41 pm |
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| Angeldust wrote: | | What do you mean MAKE THE LAWS??? They are upholding the Constitution of the United States, which, need I remind you? Is the law of the land. |
They are NOT upholding the Constitution. WHERE in the Constitution does it say that Gay Marriage is allowed?
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Angeldust
The Mob Queen
Joined: 28 Jul 2004
Posts: 6498
Location: In your most wonderful, screwed up dreams. :P
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| Wed Aug 04, 2004 9:46 pm |
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I thought I said this already....I'll say it again...
It is a matter of whether or not it is legal, under the constitution, for a state to pass such a law. The 14th amendment states that all citizens of the United States will have equal rights under the law, therefore no law can be passed that infringes on that right.
The purpose of courts is to serve as unwavering protectors of that law. By that I mean that Constitution.
The Gay Marriage Ban would impede on the freedoms and equal rights of a citizen of this country. See where I am coming from?
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"You want to dance with the angels? Then embroider me with gold; and I will fly with the angels...and you can dance with me."
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Wed Aug 04, 2004 9:57 pm |
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That does not give the courts the right to do what they are doing, being so radical, and Gay people can get married--Just not to a man if they are a man or a woman if they are a woman.
Then, Angeldust, what would you say if, say, I had a friend who wanted to marry into a Triad? What would you say to that? Would you allow that?
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Angeldust
The Mob Queen
Joined: 28 Jul 2004
Posts: 6498
Location: In your most wonderful, screwed up dreams. :P
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| Wed Aug 04, 2004 10:01 pm |
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| Quote: | | Then, Angeldust, what would you say if, say, I had a friend who wanted to marry into a Triad? What would you say to that? Would you allow that |
I have to say that is a fascinating question... let me think about it. But legally, my answer would be yes. My personal opinion, I'm not sure.
| Quote: | | That does not give the courts the right to do what they are doing, being so radical, |
The courts are not being radical. They are doing their job.... interpreting the Constitution.. and may I say that the language is not fuzzy on this issue. "Equal rights for all citizens" doesn't leave much room to wiggle...
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"You want to dance with the angels? Then embroider me with gold; and I will fly with the angels...and you can dance with me."
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Wed Aug 04, 2004 10:03 pm |
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| Angeldust wrote: | | Quote: | | Then, Angeldust, what would you say if, say, I had a friend who wanted to marry into a Triad? What would you say to that? Would you allow that |
I have to say that is a fascinating question... let me think about it. But legally, my answer would be yes. My personal opinion, I'm not sure.
| Quote: | | That does not give the courts the right to do what they are doing, being so radical, |
The courts are not being radical. They are doing their job.... interpreting the Constitution.. and may I say that the language is not fuzzy on this issue. "Equal rights for all citizens" doesn't leave much room to wiggle... |
Gay Marriage is NOT "interpreting the constitution." In some cases they are going over the law of the state and are also going over the will of the people.
If over 80% of the people don't support it, then the courts should not do so.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Angeldust
The Mob Queen
Joined: 28 Jul 2004
Posts: 6498
Location: In your most wonderful, screwed up dreams. :P
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| Wed Aug 04, 2004 10:06 pm |
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| Quote: | | Gay Marriage is NOT "interpreting the constitution." |
They were ruling against a law that had been passed that was unconstitutional.... that is the purpose of the courts.
| Quote: | | If over 80% of the people don't support it, then the courts should not do so |
The courts are supposed to be impartial.... its what brings about fairness in the justice system....they don't answer to the people. They answer to the highest law of our land. It is their job to protect and interpret that law. Regardless of public opinion.
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"You want to dance with the angels? Then embroider me with gold; and I will fly with the angels...and you can dance with me."
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Wed Aug 04, 2004 10:10 pm |
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| Angeldust wrote: | | Quote: | | Gay Marriage is NOT "interpreting the constitution." |
They were ruling against a law that had been passed that was unconstitutional.... that is the purpose of the courts.
| Quote: | | If over 80% of the people don't support it, then the courts should not do so |
The courts are supposed to be impartial.... its what brings about fairness in the justice system....they don't answer to the people. They answer to the highest law of our land. It is their job to protect and interpret that law. Regardless of public opinion. |
They are NOT enforcing the constitution in this case. And the courts are so Liberal and so secular that they are not doing what's right. And so they don't have to answer to the people--this case is different.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Angeldust
The Mob Queen
Joined: 28 Jul 2004
Posts: 6498
Location: In your most wonderful, screwed up dreams. :P
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| Wed Aug 04, 2004 10:14 pm |
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| Quote: | | SEATTLE � A King County (search) Superior Court judge in Seattle (search) ruled Wednesday that gay couples can marry, saying that denying their right to do so would be a violation of their constitutional rights. |
| Quote: | | They are NOT enforcing the constitution in this case. |
Actually, that is exactly what they are doing.. read the text.
| Quote: | | And the courts are so Liberal and so secular that ... |
The religion of the majority in the United States says that homosexuality is an abomination. If the courts were secular... don't you think they would agree with that sentiment.... and say that gay marriage should be illegal?
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"You want to dance with the angels? Then embroider me with gold; and I will fly with the angels...and you can dance with me."
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Wed Aug 04, 2004 10:22 pm |
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But if we give into Secularism, then America will change. We will have no morals. Profanity will run more rampant, things will be worse.
We can NOT allow Secularism to run our country.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Angeldust
The Mob Queen
Joined: 28 Jul 2004
Posts: 6498
Location: In your most wonderful, screwed up dreams. :P
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| Wed Aug 04, 2004 10:34 pm |
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| Quote: | | We can NOT allow Secularism to run our country. |
So we both agree with the separation of church and state.
| Quote: | | But if we give into Secularism, then America will change. We will have no morals. |
Morals and ethical values are not necessarily tied to religion.
| Quote: | | Profanity will run more rampant, things will be worse. |
I don't think you have to be christian or catholic to find profanity offensive.
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"You want to dance with the angels? Then embroider me with gold; and I will fly with the angels...and you can dance with me."
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Wed Aug 04, 2004 10:57 pm |
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With pure secularism it's bad, get it!
Secularism has a harmful effect on American society.
Just look at the ACLU, for instance, and NAMBLA, and the list goes on and on. Without religion in public life and with secularism rampant, American society as we know it will be gone. (And I NEVER said that you have to be Christain (I am Catholic but that makes me Christain) to find profanity offensive.)
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Angeldust
The Mob Queen
Joined: 28 Jul 2004
Posts: 6498
Location: In your most wonderful, screwed up dreams. :P
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| Wed Aug 04, 2004 11:02 pm |
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| Quote: | | But if we give into Secularism, then America will change. We will have no morals. Profanity will run more rampant, things will be worse. |
^check it out.
| Quote: | | (And I NEVER said that you have to be Christain (I am Catholic but that makes me Christain) to find profanity offensive.) |
you kinda did. [/quote]
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"You want to dance with the angels? Then embroider me with gold; and I will fly with the angels...and you can dance with me."
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Wed Aug 04, 2004 11:05 pm |
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| Angeldust wrote: | | Quote: | | But if we give into Secularism, then America will change. We will have no morals. Profanity will run more rampant, things will be worse. |
^check it out.
| Quote: | | (And I NEVER said that you have to be Christain (I am Catholic but that makes me Christain) to find profanity offensive.) |
you kinda did. |
[/quote]
No I did not!
I was implying RELIGION. This can include religions like Judeism and Buddhism, etc, as well! I did NOT say that, you are putting words into my mouth, damn it!
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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DemonClassY
Commodore
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 1986
Location: Pittsburgh, PA, U.S.A
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| Wed Aug 04, 2004 11:24 pm |
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| Republican_Man wrote: | | DemonClassY wrote: | | I am so happy. It's about time! |
No, it's not about time.
MORE THAN 80% of voters in America are OPPOSED TO IT, and yet the courts go above their heads.
Plus, 38 states, Missouri being the most recent, have outlawed Gay Marriage. It's only been allowed throughout the state in Massachussets. |
Since when should it be up to other people to decide how you live? Do you think that the gay community cares what other people think? Who are you to tell poeple that they can't marry? I have over 150 gay friends in my school and none of them are any different than the rest of us. Are you saying that gay people aren't allowed to be happily married? Gay people can't be happy because other Americans don't approve? Screw that! They are still human beings.
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First city to bring home the Lombardi Trophy and Lord Stanley in the same season!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! GO PENS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Wed Aug 04, 2004 11:34 pm |
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Yes, they ARE still human beings, but they should not have the right to marry. Then you have to allow Triads and more, and change the definition of marriage and undermine the family. And if most Americans don't approve, then the courts shouldn't rule in favor of it. And this isn't just a 60-40 type of view. It's over 80% to less than 20%.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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DemonClassY
Commodore
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 1986
Location: Pittsburgh, PA, U.S.A
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| Wed Aug 04, 2004 11:47 pm |
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Who cares what the other Americans think? They are just people with nothing better to do than make other peoples lives miserable. People should not have say over what other people do.
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First city to bring home the Lombardi Trophy and Lord Stanley in the same season!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! GO PENS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Puck
The Texan
Joined: 05 Jan 2004
Posts: 5596
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| Wed Aug 04, 2004 11:50 pm |
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RM, just simply tell me why two people should not be allowed to married. Since when did we over-ride certain freedoms of people to suite what other people want. What exactly is wrong with having states allow gay marriage? Do not give me a statistic for an answer either. I want to know the basic reason that it is wrong. I do not beleive in secularism either, however, on the other side, God gave people free will, and the ability to make up their own minds, never FORCING them to conform with anything he put foward as law. So do tell me....what really is so awful about states allowing gay marriage?
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Jeff Miller
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 22 Nov 2001
Posts: 23947
Location: Mental Ward for the Mentaly Unstable 6th floor, Saint John's 1615 Delaware Longview Washington 98632
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| Thu Aug 05, 2004 12:07 am |
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I'm finally proud that the courts here are doing something right I feel that everyone no matter what should have the same rights as everyone else. If you limit one group of people than its no better than sagragation (SP) and Slavery. If this is the land of the free than let them be free to do what they wish.
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| ~Tony Montana wrote: | | You know what you need people like me people for you to snub your nose at and point at saying there is a bad man. Well guess what This bad man is leaving. Say goodnight to the BAD MAN! |
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