Animal's sentientness

Oliver · **Mon Jul 05, 2004 1:32 pm Animal's sentientness**

In Buddhist philosophy, a sentient being possesses a mind, whereas an automaton does not. Any animal whose survival strategy and behaviour appears to depend on the avoidance of suffering (rather than mere reflex actions) should be assumed to be sentient.

More specifically, a sentient being is one who is aware and is capable of experiencing suffering and happiness. A sentient being experiences its inputs (perceptions) and outputs (actions), in contrast to an automaton where no subjective states occur, and all meanings have to be assigned to inputs and outputs from 'outside the system'.

In some Western philosophies, they claim that only humans experience qualitative mental states, and animals are automata with no subjective experiences, so it doesn't matter what you do to them. This view originates from the old Christian dogma that humans are qualitatively different from all other animals (because only humans have immortal souls).

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I don't agree with either views. To me, animals lie somewhere in between.

What's your view?

Jeff Miller · **Mon Jul 05, 2004 1:54 pm**

I think animals are seintant because my mother has a parrot and that thing is really smart when it comes time to clip its wings the thing manages to aways stay away from us it'll land on the highest points possible. than to taunt us it'll say Here kitty kitty kitty.

harrykims#1fan · **Mon Jul 05, 2004 2:16 pm**

IntrepidIsMe · **Mon Jul 05, 2004 2:38 pm**

I don't think animals are necessarily aware of self, however it has been proven that they do experience suffering and happiness. Like pets can become depressive, theres even medication for it,

Arellia · **Mon Jul 05, 2004 9:45 pm**

I think there's a certain 'line in the sand', as it were. I.E. I can't consider a starfish sentient as it has no brain, and a water-vascular system, hence no blood. A shark, I don't consider sentient, either, as the brain of a Great White is about the size of one's pointer-finger, and they don't appear to be entirely...intelligent. (No discernment of what is or is not prey, only instincts) However, take dolphins, who can recognize themselves in mirrors, which I personally find fascinating, I think they're sentient. It really depends on the animal...brain-size, to me, plays a rather large part. But go figure.

Kate Janeway · **Mon Jul 05, 2004 11:00 pm**

Seven of Nine · **Tue Jul 06, 2004 5:08 am**

Some animals I believe are sentient, such as dolphins. I somehow don't think a goldfish is though

Jeff Miller · **Tue Jul 06, 2004 9:29 am**

superwoman · **Tue Jul 06, 2004 12:36 pm**

I think some animal are sentient, but I can't draw a clear line. It's not like black or wihte in this question. 1. We are sentient but no animal are. OR 2. We are sentient and all animal are too. It's not like that

I consider my cousins' dog's 12 puppies sentient, but I don't think the blow flies at my garbage can are

harrykims#1fan · **Tue Jul 06, 2004 1:40 pm**

Oliver · **Tue Jul 06, 2004 2:10 pm**

Firstly, I think that most of you believe that we too can be considered to be animals, a sentient one but still an animal. We do have many traits in common with other animals; we both have heads, two eyes, a mouth, teeth and so on. All animals have adapted to their own environment and so have we.

Secondly, I�m sure everyone considers us Humans to be sentient. After all, we are aware of our on lives, our actions and the consequences. But the problem arises when you�d like to know if other animals are sentient. If some are, like dogs, cats, parrots or dolphins, why aren�t other animals sentient, like frogs, birds and goldfish�? Where is that line that separates the sentient from the non-sentient?

Some of you called your pets sentient. Is it because you think they are smart? A computer can be smart. Or is it the size of their brains? Rats have very tiny brains but are indeed extremely intelligent.

In order to known whether or not animals are sentient, I believe we need to know what sentientness is�

Jeff Miller · **Tue Jul 06, 2004 2:19 pm**

Oliver · **Thu Jul 08, 2004 2:33 am**

If you truly think some animals are sentient, why do you accept the fact that humans keep them as pets or lock them up? Even worse, why do you keep pets yourself?

Tyvek · **Thu Jul 08, 2004 5:31 pm**

I think the dividing line is not only intelligence, but self awareness therefore any creature can be sentient.

As for my dog, he can leave at any time, he stays of his own will.

Seven of Nine · **Fri Jul 09, 2004 5:07 am**

I've tried to let Topie go, but she keeps coming back. I guess she must like not having to work for her food, and since she was the runt of the litter, I guess she wouldn't have survived if she wasn't a pet anyway.

GhostOfAMemory · **Sat Jul 10, 2004 12:38 am**

I don't believe animals are sentient. I don't, however, believe we can do whatever we want to them, as there is some small degree of intelligence in them, and they do feel.

But can an animal really THINK? Is it aware of it's own existence beyond it's nerve endings? Can it love? Can it dream? Can it wonder where it came from? Can it understand what it is, what it's place is in the world, understand the other beings it shares it's environment with, consider, make desicions? Can it wonder what clouds are or realize that water and ice are just different states of the same thing? Can it look at the stars and wonder if there are others somewhat like them out there? No. And that's why no matter how many commands an animal can understand, or how much it can communicate with the rest of it's pack/herd/etc. it's not sentient. It's not truly aware of itself or it's relation to the rest of existence.