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Puck
The Texan
Joined: 05 Jan 2004
Posts: 5596
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 Sat May 22, 2004 9:09 pm Israel Continues Operation in Refugee Camp[w/followup story] |
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Israel Continues Operation in Refugee Camp
Saturday, May 22, 2004
RAFAH, Gaza Strip � A 3-year-old Palestinian girl was shot dead Saturday as a senior U.N. official toured a battle-scarred refugee camp where Israeli troops continue the hunt for weapons-smuggling tunnels and militants.
The United Nations condemned the "completely unacceptable" destruction of houses, which has left 1,650 Palestinians homeless in the last 10 days.
In the West Bank, four people were wounded by a Palestinian suicide bomber near an Israeli army checkpoint.
On Friday, Israeli troops pulled back from the Brazil and Tel Sultan neighborhoods of Rafah (search), leaving behind dozens of damaged or destroyed buildings, torn-up roads and flattened cars. The army said it was redeploying forces and that its offensive � aimed at capturing militants and uncovering tunnels that stretch across the nearby Egyptian border � would continue.
Peter Hansen, head of the U.N. agency for Palestinian refugees, visited the two areas Saturday. A few shops opened so residents could stock up, and people ventured tentatively outside, waving white flags and strips of cloth.
Despite the partial withdrawal of troops, bursts of machine-gun fire could be heard as Hansen toured a street littered with clothes, mattresses and the collapsed corrugated tin roofs of devastated houses.
"The human price has been extremely high for this operation," Hansen said.
He said 1,650 Palestinians had been made homeless over the past 10 days of the operation, including a brief Israeli incursion into Rafah last week. More than 11,000 Rafah residents have been made homeless by Israeli demolitions since 2000.
Municipal officials said at least 43 homes were demolished and dozens more damaged in the camp this week. The army said five houses were destroyed after they were used as cover by militants to attack troops.
"I think that the destruction is probably even worse than I've seen ... and is indeed completely, completely unacceptable," Hansen said.
In Tel Sultan, where workers struggled to restore water and electricity supplies and clear sewage from the streets, some angry residents refused to speak to the U.N. envoy.
"People want actions and not words," said resident Sami Khateeb. "We don't want food, all we need is to live like human beings, the world should feel our suffering, they should act to end this aggression."
Forty-one Palestinians have been killed since "Operation Rainbow" (search) began Tuesday, including gunmen and eight demonstrators hit by a tank shell during a protest march.
A 3-year-old girl was killed Saturday in the Brazil neighborhood while Hansen's delegation was in the area. Relatives said Rawan Mohammed Abu Zeid was killed by a gunshot to the head as she walked to a shop to buy candy.
"We were playing in the house when she told me she wanted some candy," said her brother Diyab Abu Zeid, 19, crying uncontrollably on the telephone. "The older kids in the neighborhood were going to the store so I let her go with them.
"There was no one in the street but the kids, not even other adults," he added.
The army said it had no reports of shots being fired in the area.
Israel says its offensive has resulted in the arrest of dozens of militants and the killing of a local leader of the armed group Hamas. The army also said it had discovered one arms-smuggling tunnel during the operation.
Overnight, tanks, jeeps and bulldozers moved into a sparsely populated area on the outskirts of the town of Rafah, next to the camp, witnesses and Palestinian security forces said. Farmer Barakat Abu Halaweh, 40, said armored vehicles flattened greenhouses and chicken coops and ordered him and his family of 15 to leave their house for three days.
Mahmoud Zahar, a Hamas leader in Gaza, said the Israeli offensive "will escalate the resistance and will increase the commitment of the Palestinian people to pursue the path of Jihad and steadfastness."
Palestinian officials said Egyptian intelligence chief Omar Suleiman would meet Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat (search) on Monday, presumably to discuss the crisis in Rafah. Israel has accused Egypt of not doing enough to halt the smuggling across its border with Gaza.
In a message to a summit of Arab leaders in Tunis, Arafat urged the international community to pressure Israel back to the negotiating table. He said military force "will not provide peace, security and stability for Israelis, but peace will, for a flourishing future for our children and theirs."
Israel is under intense diplomatic pressure to end the offensive and refrain from the sweeping demolition of Palestinian homes.
A key objective of the military operation is the widening of an Israeli patrol road between Rafah and the Egyptian border, which would make it more difficult for weapons smugglers to dig tunnels. Widening the road would require the demolition of dozens of Palestinian houses, a plan criticized by the United Nations, the European Union and the United States.
Israeli officials said Attorney General Meni Mazuz believed the road-widening plan would not hold up in local and international courts, and that he told the army to come up with alternatives that would cause less destruction.
A suicide bomber blew himself up at an Israeli army checkpoint east of the West Bank city of Nablus (search) on Saturday, wounding four people, the Israeli military and paramedics said. Military sources said one soldier was slightly wounded and three Palestinians hurt, one seriously.
The Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (search) militant group claimed responsibility for the bombing in a call to The Associated Press, saying it was a response to the Rafah incursion.
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This is completly unnacceptable, and if he has not already, Mr. Bush needs to condemn this, and threaten Israel that we will not support them if this continues.
Last edited by Puck on Sat May 22, 2004 9:17 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Puck
The Texan
Joined: 05 Jan 2004
Posts: 5596
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| Sat May 22, 2004 9:16 pm FOLLOW UP STORY |
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Administration: Support for Israel Still Strong
Friday, May 21, 2004
WASHINGTON � The Bush administration said Friday its support for Israel (search) remains strong even though it did not veto a U.N. Security Council resolution (search) that condemned recent actions in Gaza by the Jewish state.
"I don't want to disappoint anybody," State Department spokesman Richard Boucher said. "But I think it's clear that U.S. support for Israel is going to stay strong. We have always supported Israel strongly."
However, Boucher said, "that doesn't mean we support everything that Israel does or every policy that Israel undertakes."
Meeting in Tunisia, Arab foreign ministers said they believed the Bush administration was shifting to a more evenhanded Middle East policy between Israel and the Arabs, and they were encouraged.
The ministers cited the U.S. abstention on Wednesday at the United Nations, which allowed the Security Council to pass a resolution that condemned Israel for recent military actions in Gaza (search). Israel contends the Gaza activity is designed to counter terrorism.
The Bush administration had considered a veto of the resolution, which criticized Israel for demolishing Palestinian houses but did not mention terror attacks against Israel. The Israelis said the attacks prompted their campaign.
"I hope this is a message that would stress there is a change in American policy," Amr Moussa of Egypt, the Arab League secretary-general, told The Associated Press in Tunis. "Abstention is definitely better than the usual veto that hampers the United Nations in dealing with major issues of human rights in the occupied territories."
With President Bush's approval, two days after he strongly supported Israel's right to self-defense in a speech to thousands of American Jews, the White House issued a statement that criticized Israel for the Gaza military action.
Statements critical of Israel also were voiced by Secretary of State Colin Powell and by James Cunningham (search), the U.S. deputy ambassador to the United Nations.
Boucher, renewing the criticism, said, "We've been very concerned about the humanitarian effects of the Israeli operation."
In this case, like others, Boucher said, "We call them as we see them. But that doesn't diminish our overall support for the state of Israel."
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all I can say is
tut
tut
TUT!
Shame on the Bush administration!
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Sat May 22, 2004 9:22 pm |
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I think that they should condemn it some what, but my support for Israel has not gone down that much at all.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Pah-Wraith
Sheikh
Joined: 30 Nov 2001
Posts: 6012
Location: Londonistan.
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| Sun May 23, 2004 3:58 am |
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| Quote: | Death in Gaza
By Richard James Havis
BERLIN -- "Death in Gaza" began as a straightforward documentary about Palestinian children suffering from the Israeli army's violent incursions into the Gaza Strip.
That subject is poignant enough. But the film took on an extra, even sadder dimension when its British director, James Miller, was shot and killed by Israeli forces while exiting from a house waving a white flag.
The film was completed by producer-writer Saira Shah ("Beneath the Veil," "Unholy War," both with Miller), who was working with Miller when he was shot. Shah weaves the story of Miller's death into the story as a testament to his bravery and professionalism. But "Death in Gaza" also fulfills its original mandate to show the plight of Palestinian children. On one hand, they're continually harassed by Israeli tanks, and on the other, they're used as expendable spies by the Palestinian paramilitaries.
The result is a moving, informative film that has more than enough emotional muscle and controversy to fill art house theaters worldwide. The film was produced for HBO and premiered at this year's Berlin International Film Festival.
The film starts with Shah explaining the nature of Miller's death and telling the audience that as a mark of respect, they've left his vocal instructions to the film crew in the final mix. Things then focus on children in the Palestinian town of Rafah, in Gaza. Tanks rush groups of Israeli boys, while young girls mourn family members killed by the Israeli army. Kids discuss the nature of martyrdom. In the Gaza Strip, those killed by the Israelis are venerated like rock stars. Miller, who also planned a similar film about Israeli children, talks to paramilitaries, who are casual about their use of children in the conflict.
While conducting an interview at night, Miller and his crew realize they are caught too far inside an Israeli military operation. Miller decides to lead his crew out from the house in which they are sheltered. Footage filmed by a crew member who remained at the house shows that, though a white flag is clearly visible, and Miller can be heard shouting, "We are British journalists," an Israeli tank opens fire on Miller and kills him.
Shah says the reason she left Miller's vocal instructions on the soundtrack was to show that he was a careful professional rather than a reckless thrill-seeker. A final twist is that in spite of requests to the contrary by his family, Miller was celebrated as a martyr in Rafah. A further sad moment occurred at the Berlin screening, when Miller's widow delivered a speech saying that the Israeli authorities had failed to launch any kind of investigation into the death of her husband. |
There's a story of just one of many Innocent Civilians helping Palestinians that got killed by Israeli Soldiers 
Kevin, I hope you don't mind me posting it in here. I just didn't think a new topic would get it seen with the Title I'd put up 
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Vortex
Squeak Attack
Joined: 19 Jun 2002
Posts: 7170
Location: The Edge
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| Sun May 23, 2004 4:46 am |
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Since we are creating new topics over the Israelis misbehaving, I thought it might be an idea to discuss the other side as well. Weird enough no topic about this horror was found.
| Quote: | Six Israeli soldiers are dead after their armed personnel carrier drove over a 100-kilogram explosive planted under the road in Gaza. Hamas terrorists gleefully displayed and played with the body parts in front of cameras.
Hamas militant holds out bloody bag (cropped out).
Here's a photo of Hamas militants with body parts on a table in front of them.
The Israeli forces remained in the area for longer than planned in a tireless effort to rescue the bodies. The destroyed vehicle, which had a capacity of 12 soldiers but was carrying only six, was carrying large amounts of explosives.
The families of the six have been notified, though their names have not yet been released for publication. The identification process took a long while, as the bodies were in very bad condition, and not all the body parts were found.
Questions have already been raised, such as whether the IDF should continue such ground-forces operations or should rather replace them with air operations that could endanger the civilian Arab population on the ground.
Similar operations to find and destroy weapons-producing factories have proved very successful. This is not the first time, however, that heavy explosives have hit IDF vehicles, causing heavy casualties. Similar attacks claimed three soldiers in Feb. 2002, three more the next month, one in September of that year, and four tank crew members were felled in February 2003.
The attack occurred towards the conclusion of a heavy battle waged in spurts this morning in the Zaitun neighborhood of Gaza City. IDF forces entered the city on a mission to locate and blow up explosives labs, and in fact destroyed at least two of them; several others of the 20 suspected labs have also been located. The forces include combat helicopters, jeeps, bulldozers, and tanks, and additional forces have been brought him.
Hamas has claimed responsibility for the attack. IDF soldiers encircled the homes of terrorists during today's battle, and killed at least three - two from Hamas, and a Fatah leader.
One soldier was wounded lightly in an earlier clash of the battle, following which IDF soldiers returned fire.
The Jewish town of Netzarim, a few kilometers to the south, is closed off. The army is not allowing any entry or exit from the town, and the residents are left to hear the sounds of the battle.
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IMO these bastards should be hunted down and burried in pigskin.
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Pah-Wraith
Sheikh
Joined: 30 Nov 2001
Posts: 6012
Location: Londonistan.
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| Sun May 23, 2004 4:53 am |
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Yeah I agree they should be killed, but why the Pigskin?!?! that's disgusting! Thats just as bad as the Fascists who covered the bodies of 7 Muslim Women in Bacon, it's totally disgusting! I know these men deserve no sympathy themselves but the Pigskin is just taking it too far! 
What is your opinion on the earlier references to Israel btw?
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Andromeda
Freshman Cadet
Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 5
Location: Earth
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| Sun May 23, 2004 6:00 am |
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There's a big difference between civilians or soldiers, and terrorists. Civilians have nothing to do with the conflict, soldiers normally fight according to a certain code. But terrorists deserve death and humiliation in any way possible, regardless of their origin or cause...
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Puck
The Texan
Joined: 05 Jan 2004
Posts: 5596
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| Sun May 23, 2004 11:31 am |
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| Andromeda wrote: | | There's a big difference between civilians or soldiers, and terrorists. Civilians have nothing to do with the conflict, soldiers normally fight according to a certain code. But terrorists deserve death and humiliation in any way possible, regardless of their origin or cause... |
So you are willing to take your morals and ethics down to there level to fight them? When you sacrifice your own standards, you are doing exactly what they want, while also giving them additional reasons to fight you.
Also, I do not mind yall posting any new stories in here, however, I do hope that when you do, and when you discuss them, you do so in a respectful manner.
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Vortex
Squeak Attack
Joined: 19 Jun 2002
Posts: 7170
Location: The Edge
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| Sun May 23, 2004 2:10 pm |
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The only way to fight an enemy that has no morals is to make the retaliation to their actions so bad, that they are not worth their cause. Obviously retaliation should be to the ones commiting these crimes.
My morals are those of mutual respect. If one side disrespects me so much, that they find it needed to post my body parts all over the internet for all my friends and relatives to see, I find that the retaliation is one of disrespect. But of course, others would turn their cheek..... This is a new form of internet terrorism, that much like the promo of the beheading of that businessman in Iraq was spreaded via the net. Kill it at its roots, before it becomes a habbit.
I am delighted that you allow us posting stories in your topic. Remind me to thank you on every oportunity I get.
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Puck
The Texan
Joined: 05 Jan 2004
Posts: 5596
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| Sun May 23, 2004 2:22 pm |
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You dont have to be an ass about it. I was responding to Sean when he said he hoped I didn't mind if he posted an article. It was a sincere comment, and I was telling him that its cool with me.
And no, that is not the only way to fight an enemy with no morals, and if it is, then it is not a fight worth fighting. I do not lower my moral standard for anyone, or anything....but maybe thats just me.
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Link, the Hero of Time
Vice Admiral
Joined: 15 Sep 2001
Posts: 5581
Location: Kokori Forest, Hyrule
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| Sun May 23, 2004 9:00 pm |
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| JanewayIsHott wrote: |
So you are willing to take your morals and ethics down to there level to fight them? When you sacrifice your own standards, you are doing exactly what they want, while also giving them additional reasons to fight you. |
uhhh.... Isn't that what our military is doing? We're bringing ourselfs down to their level to fight them.
but getting back on topic of Palestinians vs. Israelis:
I still can't believe that the U.S. is supporting what the Israelis are doing. I mean, they're going through neighborhoods and practically destroying everything. I mean come on, you can only claim what they're doing as Self-Defense for so long. And even the U.N is up in arms about it. Do you know how bad things have to be for them to agree about something?
-------signature-------
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"A man's respect for law and order exists in precise relationship to the size of his paycheck." Adam Clayton Powell Jr.
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Theresa
Lux Mihi Deus
Joined: 17 Jun 2001
Posts: 27256
Location: United States of America
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| Mon May 24, 2004 2:46 pm |
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| Link, the Hero of Time wrote: | | JanewayIsHott wrote: |
So you are willing to take your morals and ethics down to there level to fight them? When you sacrifice your own standards, you are doing exactly what they want, while also giving them additional reasons to fight you. |
uhhh.... Isn't that what our military is doing? We're bringing ourselfs down to their level to fight them.
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Ummm, no.
-------signature-------
Some of us fall by the wayside
And some of us soar to the stars
And some of us sail through our troubles
And some have to live with our scars
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Puck
The Texan
Joined: 05 Jan 2004
Posts: 5596
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| Mon May 24, 2004 5:07 pm |
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| Link, the Hero of Time wrote: | | JanewayIsHott wrote: |
So you are willing to take your morals and ethics down to there level to fight them? When you sacrifice your own standards, you are doing exactly what they want, while also giving them additional reasons to fight you. |
uhhh.... Isn't that what our military is doing? We're bringing ourselfs down to their level to fight them.
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And even if they were, did I ever say that I would support it?
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Vortex
Squeak Attack
Joined: 19 Jun 2002
Posts: 7170
Location: The Edge
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| Tue May 25, 2004 10:19 am |
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| JanewayIsHott wrote: | You dont have to be an ass about it. I was responding to Sean when he said he hoped I didn't mind if he posted an article. It was a sincere comment, and I was telling him that its cool with me.
And no, that is not the only way to fight an enemy with no morals, and if it is, then it is not a fight worth fighting. I do not lower my moral standard for anyone, or anything....but maybe thats just me. |
You are jumping. so what are your moral standards? Shoot on sight? Shoot only when shoot at? Let them shoot you? Make love not war? Love your enemy? Boy I can think of many more.
I'll continue to wonder what your morals and values are.
For the time being, we'll embrace our enemy, give them a good reason to perform a terroristic act, so that we can punish them with a prison sentence, which btw costs on average over 60.000 per person per year. In the mean time, educate them with the money of our society, whilst the country is almost bankrupt, so that next time, they can hit us harder, when they are educated and we closer to being bankrupt.
Wake up, they hate you. Amarica is no.1 on every terrorist's hitlist. Europe follows that shortly.
Hit them where it hurts most....
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Jeremy
J's Guy
Joined: 03 Oct 2002
Posts: 7823
Location: Aberdeen, Scotland
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| Tue May 25, 2004 12:14 pm |
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That was what happened with 9/11.....
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Puck
The Texan
Joined: 05 Jan 2004
Posts: 5596
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| Tue May 25, 2004 5:28 pm |
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| Vortex wrote: | | JanewayIsHott wrote: | You dont have to be an ass about it. I was responding to Sean when he said he hoped I didn't mind if he posted an article. It was a sincere comment, and I was telling him that its cool with me.
And no, that is not the only way to fight an enemy with no morals, and if it is, then it is not a fight worth fighting. I do not lower my moral standard for anyone, or anything....but maybe thats just me. |
You are jumping. so what are your moral standards? Shoot on sight? Shoot only when shoot at? Let them shoot you? Make love not war? Love your enemy? Boy I can think of many more.
I'll continue to wonder what your morals and values are.
For the time being, we'll embrace our enemy, give them a good reason to perform a terroristic act, so that we can punish them with a prison sentence, which btw costs on average over 60.000 per person per year. In the mean time, educate them with the money of our society, whilst the country is almost bankrupt, so that next time, they can hit us harder, when they are educated and we closer to being bankrupt.
Wake up, they hate you. Amarica is no.1 on every terrorist's hitlist. Europe follows that shortly.
Hit them where it hurts most.... |
First of all, dont you ever talk to me like I am an idiot again, or don't ever trivialize my morals. I take that completly offensivly, and find that it shows what little respect you have for others ideals.
Secondly, you said terrorists deserve death and humiliation in anyway possible:
| Quote: |
But terrorists deserve death and humiliation in any way possible, regardless of their origin or cause...
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For me, this goes against one of my major moral values, that ALL life was made in God's image, and no matter how sinful, or dispicable, and that ALL life is sacred. Therefore, I beleive that NO ONE deserves death or humilaition ever. That right there is one of my moral values. You are welcome for explaining it to you. If you need anymore explanations on morals, or find you would like to learn more about them, then I would be happy to discuss them with you over PM's or AIM, or YIM, or MSN.
Also, I think maybe you should think just a tad deeper in your solution of death and humiliation. First, to me this is just pouring gas on the fire, gives them more reasons to hate us. Secondly, I dont see how this stops us from doing what you say we are which is "educating them", or how it will solve America's national debt....but hey, could just be me.
I am not saying we should let them run free, and if killing them in combat(combat that does not violate Geneva) is necassary, then so be it. However, imprisonment is fine for all the rest, and perhaps, we could get intel out of them, that which we could not do if they are dead.
Finally....um yeah, Europe has us on a hitlist. Right, you must be getting some intelligence wherever you live that I am not.
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Vortex
Squeak Attack
Joined: 19 Jun 2002
Posts: 7170
Location: The Edge
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| Wed May 26, 2004 12:32 pm |
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Impressive. However I never said that Europe is after the States. Maybe you should read that post again. Apparently you have some interesting views. God made man into his image, not all life. But then again, who reads the bible huh?
I do find you a small child, your views are contradictive and your opinions anything between weird and left-winged. You have a temper, are way to argumetative, and yourself not open to different views. Only when an extreme opinion is halted you respond.
This was only a little test on my side, to see who'd respond visciously to it.
My views on Israeli conflict are simple. I find that both are making mistakes. But that the HAMAS resorts to terrorism in name of Palestinians I find revolting. I find terrorism the greater problem. In my opinion the sole reason for a terrorist's existence is the media. If their cause wouldn't get any attention, who'd worry that much to blow himself up?
That to straighten out my views.
But back to your last post. Their are some interesting things said by you. Life shouldn't be touched, but it's fine to throw them in prison on a life sentence?
A prisoner has the right to study. And all of that is paid for by the state (therefore the community) How much does an education costs? Mandela got his doctorate in prison. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but why should a good person pay for his studies then?
The states do have a big money problem. Thank god I am not a citizen there. Imagine being born with a debt already......
I do enjoy you petronizing me. It just shows you are not capable of discussion. With that in mind, I'll let you dislike me a little more. Have a nice day 
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Sonic74205
Rear Admiral
Joined: 01 Feb 2004
Posts: 4081
Location: England
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| Wed May 26, 2004 2:34 pm |
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sorry about that im just in a VERY!  bad mood what vortex said just put the icing on the cake.
Last edited by Sonic74205 on Wed May 26, 2004 5:15 pm; edited 1 time in total
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IntrepidIsMe
Pimp Handed
Joined: 14 Jun 2002
Posts: 13057
Location: New York
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| Wed May 26, 2004 3:11 pm |
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His post is on-subject, it contains information about the current topic, and everyone has a right to retaliate. Not to mention, his post was directed at JanewayIsHott, not you; therefore it's not as if you're obligated to read it, not that you were in the first place.
Your post is the one that's out of line.
-------signature-------
"Nelly, I am Heathcliff! He's always, always in my mind: not as a pleasure, any more than I am always a pleasure to myself, but as my own being."
-Wuthering Heights
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Sonic74205
Rear Admiral
Joined: 01 Feb 2004
Posts: 4081
Location: England
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| Wed May 26, 2004 5:10 pm |
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forget everything i have said...im in a VERY VERY bad mood!
personally i thing that what has happened is appauling. The US need to consider how much support it gives to israel, the US isn't exactly the most popular country in the world as it is and this could make things worse for them.
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IntrepidIsMe
Pimp Handed
Joined: 14 Jun 2002
Posts: 13057
Location: New York
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| Wed May 26, 2004 5:29 pm |
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I agree. Perhaps it would have been best if we (the US) hadn't gotten involved in this confilct at all.
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"Nelly, I am Heathcliff! He's always, always in my mind: not as a pleasure, any more than I am always a pleasure to myself, but as my own being."
-Wuthering Heights
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Theresa
Lux Mihi Deus
Joined: 17 Jun 2001
Posts: 27256
Location: United States of America
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| Wed May 26, 2004 8:35 pm |
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Apparently we need to learn to express ourselves better, eh? Kevin, I don't think Hube (Vortex) was attacking you personally. They hate us, yes. We know this. But it is true that they don't acknowledge the ROE's, and fight dirty. What are we to do? Stand their and die in honor? That's why they have government agencies that we know jack about, that do all of that "dirty" stuff. And IMO, if there comes a point when an example has to be made, make it.
(And no, I don't know when that point would be, as I am not qualified to make such a decision)
-------signature-------
Some of us fall by the wayside
And some of us soar to the stars
And some of us sail through our troubles
And some have to live with our scars
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Puck
The Texan
Joined: 05 Jan 2004
Posts: 5596
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| Wed May 26, 2004 11:04 pm |
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| Theresa wrote: | Apparently we need to learn to express ourselves better, eh? Kevin, I don't think Hube (Vortex) was attacking you personally. They hate us, yes. We know this. But it is true that they don't acknowledge the ROE's, and fight dirty. What are we to do? Stand their and die in honor? That's why they have government agencies that we know jack about, that do all of that "dirty" stuff. And IMO, if there comes a point when an example has to be made, make it.
(And no, I don't know when that point would be, as I am not qualified to make such a decision) |
I know very well that terrorists don't play by the roles......you kinda pick that up, hence the name "terrorist". However, does that allow you to drop all of your morals.....even for the time being? When you fight like them, do you become like them? I don't know, I guess it depends on who you ask, how strongly they hold onto their morals, and just how they reason it. Personally, I, no matter what the circumstance, would never allow, or approve of using their, "disgrace by death and humilation techniques". I have faith in myself that no one will bend or break the things that I value, and I value life, and how it is sacred, no matter how dispicable it is. This is my reasoning. You do not have to agree with it if you don't want. I am open to discuss this, however, I doubt that I will sway on this issue.
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Theresa
Lux Mihi Deus
Joined: 17 Jun 2001
Posts: 27256
Location: United States of America
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| Thu May 27, 2004 10:31 am |
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Tsss, 
Here's an example. It's the year 1774-75. The American troops are fighting the vastly superior British Army. The Brits, and the Americans, (at first) are both fighting in the manner of the time. March toward each other, in a big open field. Front row fires, drop to their knees. Enemy returns fire, drop to their knees. Second row fires, and so on and so on. A LOT of dead, something that the outnumbered Americans cannot endure. So they start to resort to more guerilla tactics. Blending in with their surroundings, not exposing themselves as much, etc... Much like the Indians of that time. Who won?
The world is not black and white, and as such, neither is war. As bad as this sounds, you cannot find the soldier in the fox hole until you get down there with him. Your life, or his. I know what honor means. To me, it's everything. But if you were standing there, picking off my family members, (countrymen included), and I could stab you in the back and stop you? I'd do it.
(I know I drifted, but I have to use what I know,  )
NO ONE is innocent from killing civilians in a time of war. Britain used to do it for amusement, (Scotland, the "colonies", etc...) Then there are some who do it by accident, and some who just get caught up in the heat of the moment, and aren't able to distinguish. It seems it's ok to behead a man on video, or to mutilate bodies, as long as those people are from the more "powerful" nations. Militarily, Palestine and Israel are bascially equal. And as long as the Hamas is willing to use children, and civilian suicide bombers, how are the Israeli troops supposed to trust anyone who says they are a civilian? Apparently in the Middle East, being a civilian does not mean that you are a non-combatant.
-------signature-------
Some of us fall by the wayside
And some of us soar to the stars
And some of us sail through our troubles
And some have to live with our scars
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Puck
The Texan
Joined: 05 Jan 2004
Posts: 5596
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| Thu May 27, 2004 10:46 am |
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I dont have a problem with using new tactics. To be honest, I am not sure how far everyone is taking this....what you are talking about does not seem to bother me, but it all depends on the extent you are going to take it too.
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