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Puck
The Texan
Joined: 05 Jan 2004
Posts: 5596
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 Sun May 16, 2004 8:59 am Anti-abortion mother made a saint |
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Anti-abortion mother made a saint
VATICAN CITY (AP) -- Pope John Paul II named six new saints Sunday, including a woman who became a symbol for abortion opponents because she refused to end her pregnancy despite warnings that it could kill her.
The Vatican has long championed the case of Gianna Beretta Molla, an Italian pediatrician who died in 1962 at the age of 39 -- a week after giving birth to her fourth child.
Doctors had told her it was dangerous to proceed with the pregnancy because she had a tumor in her uterus, but she insisted on carrying the baby to term.
In proclaiming her a saint, John Paul praised her "extreme sacrifice" and her simple but profound message.
"May our era rediscover, by the example of Gianna Beretta Molla, the pure, chaste and fertile beauty of conjugal love, lived as a response to the divine calling," he said.
John Paul also praised the examples of the five other people canonized Sunday, including two Italian priests and a Spanish monk who founded religious orders, a Lebanese Maronite priest and a wealthy Italian widow who opened her homes to abandoned children.
John Paul, who turns 84 on Tuesday, read his entire homily and appeared in good form as he declared the saints to a crowd of thousands of flag-waving pilgrims gathered under a brilliant sun in St. Peter's Square.
Among the well-wishers on hand for the ceremony was Lebanese President Emile Lahoud, himself a Maronite Catholic who was in Rome to honor Naamatallah Kassab Hardini, a Maronite who lived from 1808 to 1858 and is credited with healing the blind and lame.
Hardini is the third Maronite to attain sainthood, and his elevation was certain to boost the morale of the estimated 900,000 Maronites in Lebanon, the largest of the country's Christian sects.
Also canonized Sunday were Luigi Orione, a popular Italian priest and founder of the Little Work of Divine Providence and of the Congregation of the Little Sisters, Missionaries of Charity; Hannibal Maria di Francia, founder of the Congregation of the Rogationist Fathers of the Heart of Jesus and of the Religious Daughters of Divine Zeal; Josep Manyanet y Vives, the Spanish-born founder of the Congregation of the Sons of the Holy Family of Jesus, Mary and Joseph and the Missionary Daughters of the Holy Family of Nazareth; and Paola Elisabetta Cerioli, a wealthy Italian widow who, after all four of her children and her husband died, founded the Institute of Religious of the Holy Family.
The pope has made giving Catholics new role models one of the hallmarks of his papacy. With Sunday's ceremony, he has proclaimed 482 saints in his 25-year pontificate, more than all his predecessors over the past 500 years combined.
In approving the six new saints, John Paul confirmed miracles were attributed to their intercession.
In the case of Beretta Molla, the Vatican says the first miracle needed for her to be beatified concerned a sickly Brazilian woman who recovered in 1977 after her fourth pregnancy. The Vatican says a second miracle occurred in 2000 when a healthy child was born to a young Brazilian woman who had lost her amniotic fluid.
Beretta Molla has been applauded as a courageous symbol for many in the Roman Catholic Church who back the Vatican's ban on abortion.
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Copyright 2004 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.
Find this article at:
http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/europe/05/16/vatican.saints.ap/index.html
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Leo Wyatt
Sweetest Angel
Joined: 25 Feb 2004
Posts: 19045
Location: Investigating A Crime Scene. What did Quark do this time?
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| Wed May 26, 2004 10:34 pm |
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I would die in order to save my baby. A baby's life is more precious.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Wed May 26, 2004 10:45 pm |
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| kmma wrote: | | I would die in order to save my baby. A baby's life is more precious. |
Why would you not give an innocent life the chance to live?
It's murder. I agree with you, Kmma. If I were a female who had a baby, I would die for it. If I couldn't afford to support it, I would be a good mother and put it up for adoption. But kill it, already?
It's maddness...
And can you believe that people are opposed to the illegalization of PARTIAL BIRTH abortions? Even MORE appalling!
-------signature-------
"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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charlie
American Soldier
Joined: 26 Feb 2004
Posts: 598
Location: In The United States
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| Wed May 26, 2004 10:48 pm |
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my wife aka kmma and i talk about this too. i agree with her.
she was in a life and death situation with our second child. she told the dr make sure this baby lives, dont try to save me. her direct words.
thank goodness they did pull through. she had a second csection it had to be done quick. she lost alot of blood. david was in the baby intentive care for awhile.
but if it came to it, she would have died to save that little boy.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Wed May 26, 2004 10:51 pm |
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A very honorable thing. Why can't all moms take after that?
-------signature-------
"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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charlie
American Soldier
Joined: 26 Feb 2004
Posts: 598
Location: In The United States
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| Wed May 26, 2004 10:55 pm |
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They too busy, wanting to kill than to give up for adoption. they can't go through the labor pains like most women. and most cant stop spreading their legs like my wife always says.
but even in a rape situation, no it shouldnt be done. give the baby up to a loving home.
why kill when you can bring life into this world? If the babies that was aborted, would have been born, maybe they would be the ones who found the cure for aids.
never know. til you let a precious baby live.
so what if a woman gets alittle big and dont have a figure for a while. it come back.
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Leo Wyatt
Sweetest Angel
Joined: 25 Feb 2004
Posts: 19045
Location: Investigating A Crime Scene. What did Quark do this time?
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| Wed May 26, 2004 10:59 pm |
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Yeah true. but people will do whatever they want to. let them face the conscience of their actions only thing I can say about it.
I love kids. and hope they will know one day of the joy of a child could bring.
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Puck
The Texan
Joined: 05 Jan 2004
Posts: 5596
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| Wed May 26, 2004 11:07 pm |
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First...before I get going, I would like to say that what you did Deb, was the most sacred thing that a person can do, be willing to give their life for another. You are a very honorable person.
Next.....for those who have gone through abortion.......i think that there should be more help centers for them. You know that many of them must feel horrible about what they did.
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Jeff Miller
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 22 Nov 2001
Posts: 23947
Location: Mental Ward for the Mentaly Unstable 6th floor, Saint John's 1615 Delaware Longview Washington 98632
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| Wed May 26, 2004 11:11 pm |
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I think a mother has a right to do whatever she wants with it I know that if my woman ended up pregnant without me being ok with it I would make her get rid of it she knows that and agrees with me. I don't care how they do it just get it out of her...
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Leo Wyatt
Sweetest Angel
Joined: 25 Feb 2004
Posts: 19045
Location: Investigating A Crime Scene. What did Quark do this time?
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| Wed May 26, 2004 11:13 pm |
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Thanks JanewayIsHott. I try to do the right thing. Yes, there should be more help centers for those women that do feel bad about having to abort. I know some that did not feel bad and I feel sorry for the ones who don't feel bad.
But to the ones that do feel bad and know they did is wrong, always forgiveness in God's eyes if they ask for it. I don't want to get into an arguement of religion here. so dont get offended please dont.
It's not in me to kill another life just to save my own hide.
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Puck
The Texan
Joined: 05 Jan 2004
Posts: 5596
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| Wed May 26, 2004 11:14 pm |
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"with it" she can do whatever she wants "with it"!!!!!!!
How is it the moms right to decide if her child gets to live or die....its not the mothers life, she does not have any right what so ever to decide if another life is allowed to live or die.
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Jeff Miller
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 22 Nov 2001
Posts: 23947
Location: Mental Ward for the Mentaly Unstable 6th floor, Saint John's 1615 Delaware Longview Washington 98632
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| Wed May 26, 2004 11:15 pm |
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Well not everyone is like that I would stab everyone I love in the back just to save myself its who I am.
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Arellia
The Quiet One
Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Posts: 4425
Location: Dallas, TX
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| Wed May 26, 2004 11:15 pm |
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I can't concieve of any possible reason I would EVER be okay with aborting a child; and I have a hard time seeing the logic behind the concept. It so idiotic to kill a child just because it's young. It's still a child, with a life, equally as capable as anyone else. Not many would be okay with beheading a new-born kid after 9 months in the womb, would they? I don't think so, and I really don't see the difference between that and an abortion before the term is up.
Rape victims with children is a very unlikely situation, which does not happen as often as some may think. It happens, I know, but not a heck of a lot. It accounts for a very small percentage of abortions. If a girl gets pregnant, that's her fault, and her partner's. That's no reason to kill the product. Adoption is most always an option, and not at all a horrible one.
Last edited by Arellia on Wed May 26, 2004 11:18 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Jeff Miller
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 22 Nov 2001
Posts: 23947
Location: Mental Ward for the Mentaly Unstable 6th floor, Saint John's 1615 Delaware Longview Washington 98632
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| Wed May 26, 2004 11:16 pm |
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| JanewayIsHott wrote: | "with it" she can do whatever she wants "with it"!!!!!!!
How is it the moms right to decide if her child gets to live or die....its not the mothers life, she does not have any right what so ever to decide if another life is allowed to live or die. |
yes I said "With it" she created it till she gives birth to it, its living off her so its hers to do with but like I said before if I don't want it I won't accept it.
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Leo Wyatt
Sweetest Angel
Joined: 25 Feb 2004
Posts: 19045
Location: Investigating A Crime Scene. What did Quark do this time?
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| Wed May 26, 2004 11:16 pm |
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In my opnion Jeff thats down right evil. No woman has a right to kill but feel pity on her if she does kill an innocent baby. You don't know how precious each life is do you Jeff?
for example if it happened which it wont and not gonna happened. If Charlie told me to abort, he will be out the door and paying child support. I will not kill for no man.
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Puck
The Texan
Joined: 05 Jan 2004
Posts: 5596
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| Wed May 26, 2004 11:17 pm |
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Yes she created "it" now she is stuck with "it". If you dont want a child, use protection, or my favorite choice, dont have sex!
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Wed May 26, 2004 11:18 pm |
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| B'Ellanna_Torrez wrote: | | I can't concieve of any possible reason I would EVER be okay with aborting a child; and I have a hard time seeing the logic behind the concept. It so idiotic to kill a child just because it's young. It's still a child, with a life, equally as capable as anyone else. Not many would be okay with beheading a new-born kid after 9 months in the womb, would they? I don't think so, and I really don't see the difference between that and an abortion before the term is up. |
I agree. And once again, excellent points, kmma.
-------signature-------
"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Jeff Miller
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 22 Nov 2001
Posts: 23947
Location: Mental Ward for the Mentaly Unstable 6th floor, Saint John's 1615 Delaware Longview Washington 98632
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| Wed May 26, 2004 11:18 pm |
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| kmma wrote: | | You don't know how precious each life is do you Jeff? |
I know this is going to sound cold but Nope they don't concern me I am who I am I made it clear that I don't want kids that I'm going to wear protection whenever possible.
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Leo Wyatt
Sweetest Angel
Joined: 25 Feb 2004
Posts: 19045
Location: Investigating A Crime Scene. What did Quark do this time?
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| Wed May 26, 2004 11:18 pm |
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I will not kill a baby to save my hide. I am not down right mean like that.
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Leo Wyatt
Sweetest Angel
Joined: 25 Feb 2004
Posts: 19045
Location: Investigating A Crime Scene. What did Quark do this time?
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| Wed May 26, 2004 11:21 pm |
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Thats because you must have a cold heart. in my opnion
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Jeff Miller
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 22 Nov 2001
Posts: 23947
Location: Mental Ward for the Mentaly Unstable 6th floor, Saint John's 1615 Delaware Longview Washington 98632
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| Wed May 26, 2004 11:21 pm |
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Or I may just lack one  but anyway back ontopic 
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Wed May 26, 2004 11:24 pm |
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This technically IS on topic, Jeff. It is basically, in essence, a debate on abortion. That's what it comes down to.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Voyager`
Rear Admiral
Joined: 22 Aug 2001
Posts: 2579
Location: Iowa
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| Thu May 27, 2004 12:21 am |
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I agree that abortion is absolutely wrong and it should be illegal, its murder, no different from a parent killing a child of theirs thats 5 or 10. It doesnt matter wether the baby is wanted or not, if its not put it up for abortion and then you wont have to deal with the kid nor murder it.
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Virtue will take up arms against savagery, And the battle will be short. For the courage of old is not yet dead in me.
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Leo Wyatt
Sweetest Angel
Joined: 25 Feb 2004
Posts: 19045
Location: Investigating A Crime Scene. What did Quark do this time?
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| Thu May 27, 2004 4:37 am |
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Some people don't see it that way cause they have one tracked minds and they gonna kill no matter what. It's a shame all these women, killing cause they spread those legs out and had sex. You spread them, face the conxceience of it. I know I did not spell that right but you know what I mean I hope.
If a rape occurs, theres a adoption too. If you need counceling theres pastors that do it without judging. and there are drs that listen. Give life a chance. Instead of murder . Ok, these all what I said probaby earlier so I stop for now.
But I agree with Voyager completely.
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PrankishSmart
Rear Admiral
Joined: 29 Apr 2002
Posts: 4779
Location: Hobart, Australia.
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| Thu May 27, 2004 5:02 am |
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The morning after pill should be illegal too if thats the case. Maybe even make spermacide illegal. Thats crazy, yet the same thing.
Rape victims usually get an abortion within one or two months from when the rape happened.
What if there is no chance that the baby or you will survive. It would be crazy to die. May as well save your own life right?
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