| Should US Athletes, like every other country, be allowed to fly their flag? |
| Yes |
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88% |
[ 15 ] |
| No |
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11% |
[ 2 ] |
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| Total Votes : 17 |
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Message |
Theresa
Lux Mihi Deus
Joined: 17 Jun 2001
Posts: 27256
Location: United States of America
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 Tue May 18, 2004 10:12 pm American Athletes Told To Be Ashamed Of Who They Are |
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| Quote: | U.S. Athletes Told Not to Carry Flag at Olympics
The Sunday Telegraph ^ | 16 May, 2004 | Simon Hart
Posted on 05/16/2004 4:14:05 AM PDT by tjwmason
Fear of a hostile reaction has led US officials to warn its participants in the Games against overtly patriotic displays
By Simon Hart in New York
(Filed: 16/05/2004)
American athletes have been warned not to wave the US flag during their medal celebrations at this summer's Olympic Games in Athens for fear of provoking crowd hostility and harming the country's already battered public image.
The spectacle of victorious athletes grabbing a national flag and parading it around the stadium is a familiar part of international sporting competition, but US Olympic officials have ordered their 550-strong team to exercise restraint and avoid any jingoistic behaviour.
The plan is part of a charm offensive aimed at repairing the country's international reputation following the deepening crisis in Iraq and damaging revelations of torture and mistreatment of detainees by US forces at the Abu Ghraib prison.
"American athletes find themselves in extraordinary circumstances in Athens in relation to the world as we know it right now," said Mike Moran, a veteran former spokesman for the US Olympic Committee who has been retained as a consultant to advise athletes about the correct way to behave.
"Regardless of whether there is anti-American sentiment in Athens or not, the world watches Americans a lot now in terms of how they behave and our culture. What I am trying to do with the athletes and coaches is to suggest to them that they consider how the normal things they do at an event, including the Olympics, might be viewed as confrontational or insulting or cause embarrassment."
Four years ago, at the Sydney Olympics, the victorious American 4 x 100m relay team were widely condemned for their arrogant strutting with the US flag following their gold medal presentation, and American officials, mindful of the country's precarious standing in world opinion, are desperate to avoid any repeat.
"Unfortunately, using the flag as a prop or a piece of apparel or indulging in boasting behaviour is becoming part of our society in sport because every night on TV we see our athletes - professional, college or otherwise - taunting their opponents and going face to face with each other," said Mr Moran. "We are trying, for 17 days, to break that culture.
"What I am telling the athletes is, 'Don't run over and grab a flag and take it round the track with you.' It's not business as usual for American athletes. If a Kenyan or a Russian grabs their national flag and runs round the track or holds it high over their heads, it might not be viewed as confrontational. Where we are in the world right now, an American athlete doing that might be viewed in another manner."
Mr Moran added that the behaviour of British athletes could face similar scrutiny in Athens, though the British Olympic Association insists that there are no plans to ban them from celebrating with the Union flag.
A spokesman for the association said: "It's up to every athlete how he or she wishes to celebrate their Olympic success and there are no plans to issue any instructions. We are confident that every athlete will celebrate in a responsible way."
The US Olympic Committee's anxiety at over-exuberant displays of jingoism is a far cry from the scenes at the 2002 Winter Olympics, hosted by Salt Lake City, where the American flag became the defining symbol of the Games.
A different environment awaits the American team in Athens, where officials are anxious to replace apple pie with humble pie.
Americans were booed at the World Athletics Championships in Paris last year - largely as a result of Jon Drummond's histrionic protest at his disqualification from a heat of the 100 metres. And at an Olympic football qualifying match in Mexico earlier this year the American team was subjected to sustained barracking by a section of the crowd, including chants of "Osama, Osama".
Despite the extra burden being placed on American athletes, officials still predict a US medal haul of more than 100, and have made it their target to finish top of the medals table. The irony is that finishing the Games as the most powerful nation is unlikely to endear them to the rest of the world.
"We're not the favourite kid in the world right now," admitted Bill Martin, the US Olympic Committee's acting president.
"We are sensitive not only to the security issue but to jingoism in its raw sense. That is why we are sending people around to educate the athletes as to the appropriate behaviour."
Excerpted |
| Quote: | USOC to Athletes: Be Ashamed of Who You Are
Via Garrulitas
American athletes have been warned not to wave the U.S. flag during their medal celebrations at this summer's Olympic Games in Athens, for fear of provoking crowd hostility and harming the country's already-battered public image.
...
The plan is part of a charm offensive aimed at repairing the country's international reputation after the deepening crisis in Iraq and damaging revelations of the mistreatment of Iraqi prisoners by U.S. forces at the Abu Ghraib prison.
Charm? No. Offensive? Yes.
This is disgraceful. The U.S. Olympic Committee has hired someone (Mike Moran) to advise athletes how to behave.
The U.S. Olympic Committee thinks we should feel shame for being Americans. That, in and of itself, is the most shameful thing I have ever heard.
If a Kenyan or a Russian grabs their national flag and runs round the track or holds it high over their heads, it might not be viewed as confrontational. Where we are in the world right now, an American athlete doing that might be viewed in another manner."
...
"We're not the favorite kid in the world right now," conceded Bill Martin, the USOC's acting president. "We are sensitive not only to the security issue, but to jingoism in its raw sense. That is why we are sending people around to educate the athletes as to the appropriate behavior."
Since when is celebrating an Olympic victory jingoism?
Forget about our reputation as thugs or whatever the French, Germans and "the Arab street" sees us as right now. This will make us look like wimps, apologists and have other countries laughing at the incredible lengths we go to for political correctness.
Add this to the reports that Greek officials have warned U.S. and Israeli athletes to not wear their "colors" in public, and what we have here is a farce.
When did we go from a powerful nation to a dog hiding its tail between its legs?
What about the athletes from Palestine, Korea, Lebanon, Iran, Iraq, Burma, Pakistan, Syria, Rwanda, Nigeria? Is anyone telling them to tone it down based on whatever their country might be involed in at the moment or has been involved in? I doubt it.
Only in America will you see this kind of thing. Only in America would we tell our Olympic athletes to not show their pride after winning an event, for fear of pissing someone off. Only in America would the Olympic committee hire someone to instruct athletes how not to hold up their flag with pride after taking a gold medal.
Just another reason in a long list of reasons to not watch the Olympics this summer.
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Basically, the American athletes are being told that when they win a gold medal, to not do as they have done before, as 99% of the countries have done before, and do a victory lap w/ their flag, so as to appease the nations who may be hostile toward us.
And you (a general you) think America is prejudiced? Even if you don't like the current administration, you have no right to *beep* on our flag.
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And some of us sail through our troubles
And some have to live with our scars
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Tue May 18, 2004 10:19 pm |
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| Quote: | Basically, the American athletes are being told that when they win a gold medal, to not do as they have done before, as 99% of the countries have done before, and do a victory lap w/ their flag, so as to appease the nations who may be hostile toward us.
And you (a general you) think America is prejudiced? Even if you don't like the current administration, you have no right to *beep* on our flag. |
Oh yeah, I agree. We have the RIGHT TO EXPRESS OUR COUNTRY BY SHOWING OUR FLAG, ESPECIALLY WHEN OTHER COUNTRIES GET TO, this is WRONG. It is an attack on the President AND our country. It is WRONG.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Theresa
Lux Mihi Deus
Joined: 17 Jun 2001
Posts: 27256
Location: United States of America
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| Tue May 18, 2004 10:25 pm |
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Yeah, but like I said, so what you don't like Bush? Deal with that. But this is my country. And for those of you out there who are also patriotic, Brits, Welshies, etc..., you should understand that it's not right to trash over 200 years of history. I wouldn't dare trash your country, and would expect the same from you.
Yes, we all know how I feel about France, but never did I trash who they were, their history, etc... (you know what I mean,  )
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Some of us fall by the wayside
And some of us soar to the stars
And some of us sail through our troubles
And some have to live with our scars
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Theresa
Lux Mihi Deus
Joined: 17 Jun 2001
Posts: 27256
Location: United States of America
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| Tue May 18, 2004 10:28 pm |
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| Quote: | | Add this to the reports that Greek officials have warned U.S. and Israeli athletes to not wear their "colors" in public, and what we have here is a farce. |
And dude, I'd so tell those officials what they could go do with themselves.
What an American's "colors" mean to them.
| Quote: | RAGGED OLD FLAG
I walked through a county courthouse square,
On a park bench an old man was sitting there.
I said, "Your old courthouse is kinda run down."
He said, "Naw, it'll do for our little town."
I said, "Your flagpole has leaned a little bit,
And that's a Ragged Old Flag you got hanging on it.
He said, "Have a seat", and I sat down.
"Is this the first time you've been to our little town?"
I said, "I think it is." He said, "I don't like to brag,
But we're kinda proud of that Ragged Old Flag."
"You see, we got a little hole in that flag there
When Washington took it across the Delaware.
And it got powder-burned the night Francis Scott Key
Sat watching it writing _Oh Say Can You See_.
And it got a bad rip in New Orleans
With Packingham and Jackson tuggin' at its seams."
"And it almost fell at the Alamo
Beside the Texas flag, but she waved on through.
She got cut with a sword at Chancellorsville
And she got cut again at Shiloh Hill.
There was Robert E. Lee, Beauregard, and Bragg,
And the south wind blew hard on that Ragged Old Flag."
"On Flanders Field in World War I
She got a big hole from a Bertha gun.
She turned blood red in World War II
She hung limp and low by the time it was through.
She was in Korea and Vietnam.
She went where she was sent by her Uncle Sam."
"She waved from our ships upon the briny foam,
And now they've about quit waving her back here at home.
In her own good land she's been abused --
She's been burned, dishonored, denied and refused."
"And the government for which she stands
Is scandalized throughout the land.
And she's getting threadbare and wearing thin,
But she's in good shape for the shape she's in.
'Cause she's been through the fire before
And I believe she can take a whole lot more."
"So we raise her up every morning,
Take her down every night.
We don't let her touch the ground
And we fold her up right.
On second thought I DO like to brag,
'Cause I'm mighty proud of that Ragged Old Flag."
Written by Johnny Cash
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-------signature-------
Some of us fall by the wayside
And some of us soar to the stars
And some of us sail through our troubles
And some have to live with our scars
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Seven of Nine
Sammie's Mammy
Joined: 16 Jun 2001
Posts: 7871
Location: North East England
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| Wed May 19, 2004 6:27 am |
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For goodness sake, I might not like Bush, but I like the USA in general, and they have some pretty good athletes. Why shouldn't they wave the flag if they get gold? They deserve the right to do what others do. I hope that the athletes take no notice of this, and celebrate in whatever reasonable way they want.
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harrykims#1fan
Fan Girl Muskateer
Joined: 08 Feb 2002
Posts: 2916
Location: Leicester UK
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| Wed May 19, 2004 6:34 am |
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Every country has the right to fly their flag regardless of what other countries may think of them
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Wed May 19, 2004 4:55 pm |
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| harrykims#1fan wrote: | | Every country has the right to fly their flag regardless of what other countries may think of them |
You put it short and sweet and to the point...
And good poem, Theresa. Thanks for sharing it.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Theresa
Lux Mihi Deus
Joined: 17 Jun 2001
Posts: 27256
Location: United States of America
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| Wed May 19, 2004 9:49 pm |
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Would the one who voted no like to reveal themselves? I mean, you are taking a stand on an issue, at least have the guts to identify yourself.
-------signature-------
Some of us fall by the wayside
And some of us soar to the stars
And some of us sail through our troubles
And some have to live with our scars
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Wed May 19, 2004 10:04 pm |
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^Yes, please do. It is appalling for someone to vote no and yet not say why.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Kyre
Commodore
Joined: 15 Mar 2002
Posts: 1263
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| Thu May 20, 2004 6:52 am |
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Yes, I can certainly see them identifying themselves now, what with you two hovering over the topic ready to strike. 
By the way, I voted yes.
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Theresa
Lux Mihi Deus
Joined: 17 Jun 2001
Posts: 27256
Location: United States of America
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| Thu May 20, 2004 8:57 am |
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"Ready to strike"... Is everything with you threatening? A question was asked. That's it. I want to know why. I'm like that with a lot of things, and if you don't like it, well, that's really too bad, now isn't it?
-------signature-------
Some of us fall by the wayside
And some of us soar to the stars
And some of us sail through our troubles
And some have to live with our scars
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Kyre
Commodore
Joined: 15 Mar 2002
Posts: 1263
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| Thu May 20, 2004 6:09 pm |
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Hehe, I never said a question wasn't asked. I never said that you didn't want to know why. All I said was, assuming the no vote was genuine (high probability it wasn't), that you would quickly respond to any coming forward, and with great vigour.
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Theresa
Lux Mihi Deus
Joined: 17 Jun 2001
Posts: 27256
Location: United States of America
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| Fri May 21, 2004 9:40 am |
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| Quote: | | hovering over the topic ready to strike. |
That is definitley in a negative connotation, but w/e. Back on topic.
-------signature-------
Some of us fall by the wayside
And some of us soar to the stars
And some of us sail through our troubles
And some have to live with our scars
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