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IntrepidIsMe
Pimp Handed
Joined: 14 Jun 2002
Posts: 13057
Location: New York
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 Wed May 05, 2004 4:26 pm |
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Why do you have the idea that people don't like you?
-------signature-------
"Nelly, I am Heathcliff! He's always, always in my mind: not as a pleasure, any more than I am always a pleasure to myself, but as my own being."
-Wuthering Heights
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Leo Wyatt
Sweetest Angel
Joined: 25 Feb 2004
Posts: 19045
Location: Investigating A Crime Scene. What did Quark do this time?
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| Wed May 05, 2004 4:27 pm |
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I have been behaving 
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Kyre
Commodore
Joined: 15 Mar 2002
Posts: 1263
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| Wed May 05, 2004 5:05 pm |
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Agnostic. Can't say either way. But, what would happen to, say, some amazon tribe in the heart of the rainforest. They've never encountered Christianity before and then they all die because of some disease. Let's just say a disease brought in by a Christian missionary.
Do they go to hell?
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Leo Wyatt
Sweetest Angel
Joined: 25 Feb 2004
Posts: 19045
Location: Investigating A Crime Scene. What did Quark do this time?
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| Wed May 05, 2004 5:15 pm |
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To answer Intrepid If spelled ur name right. Cause I made a few mistakes on here maybe I just can't forgive myself.
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Puck
The Texan
Joined: 05 Jan 2004
Posts: 5596
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| Wed May 05, 2004 5:19 pm |
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| Kyre wrote: | Agnostic. Can't say either way. But, what would happen to, say, some amazon tribe in the heart of the rainforest. They've never encountered Christianity before and then they all die because of some disease. Let's just say a disease brought in by a Christian missionary.
Do they go to hell? |
First of all....no one can say, unless they are gonna put words into Gods mouth....however, this is my idea of what would happen:
First, were they living their life in a way to imitate Christ.....i dont think you have to know of Christ to necessarily get into heaven, ( I am saying like not knowing anything about him.....not rejecting Christ...that is completly different) I think this is the key.
Plus, was he attempting to learn about Christ from the missionary?
Finally, I think if he was a basically good person he would, or perhaps that is what pergatory is for....good people that did not have a chance to find the ways of Christ while on earth.
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Sam Kenobi
Not a Duke
Joined: 13 Jun 2003
Posts: 10373
Location: The 'Verse
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| Wed May 05, 2004 5:24 pm |
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I don't think it would be fair to say "if he was living his life according to Christ". that would mean following the morals of Christ that the rest of the Christian has adapted. For all we know, there could be a completely different set of morals in this tribe that completely go against the Christian beliefs. To them everything would seem right, while to us everything would seem wrong. I think its hard to say what happens.
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Paul Marshall
Rear Admiral
Joined: 30 Aug 2002
Posts: 2976
Location: Winston-Salem, North Carolina
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| Wed May 05, 2004 5:29 pm |
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| PrankishSmart wrote: | | Oh no! Not the never ending creation vs evolution debate again!!! |
I know, haven't we been through this once or twice before in SEVERAL other topics,   ?
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Puck
The Texan
Joined: 05 Jan 2004
Posts: 5596
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| Wed May 05, 2004 5:37 pm |
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| Triam_Paris wrote: | | I don't think it would be fair to say "if he was living his life according to Christ". that would mean following the morals of Christ that the rest of the Christian has adapted. For all we know, there could be a completely different set of morals in this tribe that completely go against the Christian beliefs. To them everything would seem right, while to us everything would seem wrong. I think its hard to say what happens. |
No one ever said it was fair, but everyone one is supposed to live their lives, and in doing so, imitate Christ's as best they can. Thats what I beleive. However, I also mentioned pergatory, perhaps this is a place for people to whom Christ was not revealed in their life on earth.
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Leo Wyatt
Sweetest Angel
Joined: 25 Feb 2004
Posts: 19045
Location: Investigating A Crime Scene. What did Quark do this time?
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| Wed May 05, 2004 5:41 pm |
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I don't believe in pergatory sorry no offense Janewayishott. I am Pentecostal. There is a Heaven and there is a hell. And those who are not saved will go to hell and the ones that are saved go to Heaven. THe way I was taught. I never saw pergatory in the bible. So I am getting a little bit confussed.
I am not saying u are wrong and I am right. Just pointing out i never saw the word pergatory in the bible. And I am not judging anybody either.
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Puck
The Texan
Joined: 05 Jan 2004
Posts: 5596
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| Wed May 05, 2004 5:52 pm |
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The Pope feels that it exists, and God speaks directly through him.
Jesus said to Peter(not perfect quoting, but gimme a break)" You are the rock, and on you I shall build my church (the Catholic church). He also said to his deciples (Peter among them) "Recieve the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained, as you say it is on Earth, so it will be in heaven" Peter was the first Pope. Hope that explains something.....
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Leo Wyatt
Sweetest Angel
Joined: 25 Feb 2004
Posts: 19045
Location: Investigating A Crime Scene. What did Quark do this time?
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| Wed May 05, 2004 7:01 pm |
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Longs as we Christians does it really matter JanewayisHott? Cause you love God? And so do I with all my heart.
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Sam Kenobi
Not a Duke
Joined: 13 Jun 2003
Posts: 10373
Location: The 'Verse
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| Wed May 05, 2004 7:53 pm |
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| JanewayIsHott wrote: | | Triam_Paris wrote: | | I don't think it would be fair to say "if he was living his life according to Christ". that would mean following the morals of Christ that the rest of the Christian has adapted. For all we know, there could be a completely different set of morals in this tribe that completely go against the Christian beliefs. To them everything would seem right, while to us everything would seem wrong. I think its hard to say what happens. |
No one ever said it was fair, but everyone one is supposed to live their lives, and in doing so, imitate Christ's as best they can. Thats what I beleive. However, I also mentioned pergatory, perhaps this is a place for people to whom Christ was not revealed in their life on earth. |
They have to live their lives according to Christ by just living their lives. OK, I follow you that far. BUt what if the way they live their lives involves ritual murder or suicide? What if it's vital to their own beliefs? Is that still living a life according to Christ?
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Puck
The Texan
Joined: 05 Jan 2004
Posts: 5596
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| Wed May 05, 2004 9:40 pm |
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No it is not. However....that is why I bring up pergatory........
to kmma: I don't see it matters to much.....just explaining my beleifs to ya
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PrankishSmart
Rear Admiral
Joined: 29 Apr 2002
Posts: 4779
Location: Hobart, Australia.
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| Wed May 05, 2004 11:48 pm |
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| Triam_Paris wrote: | | Jeff Miller wrote: | | If god exists where is his body? if Jesus exists where his body? do we really have any definative proof that they exist when I say Proof I mean DNA Sample not some pokey cloth that is said to have a image I want the real stuff. Hell give me a Skeleton give me something to really make me think "Damn the man does exist." Can you do that? |
I'll give you that evidence once you give me evidence that the wind exists. You can't. you can't see the wind itself, but you can feel it, smell it, see the effects of it. Get my metaphor? |
Satellite weather technology can detect wind, though. Why can't technology pick up God??? But of a strange question, but I will wait for an answer.
I will tell you why it's so hard to believe in a all mighty god...
We have a physics driven lifestyle. God would contradict everything in daily life. It is very hard to believe in something that has no proof of existence, only just beliefs. And, to me, evolution just makes more sense compared to creation. Also, there are the questions, who created god? How did he evolve from nothing? Whats his real purpose? What makes it easier to believe in god, rather than evolution?
I can say one thing. I don't think this debate would ever end. Well will always be looking for the truth. It also seems to me that there are no religions in the world of star trek, as they might have proof that the big bang did occur.
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Oliver
Thought Maker
Joined: 28 Feb 2004
Posts: 6096
Location: Antwerp, Belgium
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| Thu May 06, 2004 1:29 am |
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| PrankishSmart wrote: | | ...It also seems to me that there are no religions in the world of star trek, as they might have proof that the big bang did occur. |
That's not entirely true, Star Trek does have religions. Look at the Klingons, they belive in life after death, Stovokor (or something like that) and the Bejorans are very religious. They waer earings and belive in the prophets.
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PrankishSmart
Rear Admiral
Joined: 29 Apr 2002
Posts: 4779
Location: Hobart, Australia.
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| Thu May 06, 2004 4:18 am |
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| Oliver wrote: | | PrankishSmart wrote: | | ...It also seems to me that there are no religions in the world of star trek, as they might have proof that the big bang did occur. |
That's not entirely true, Star Trek does have religions. Look at the Klingons, they belive in life after death, Stovokor (or something like that) and the Bejorans are very religious. They waer earings and belive in the prophets. |
Ok, but I actually meant that there don't seem to be human religions. Also, with the bejorans, remember the prophets are actually real beings! Also, I remember from the episode voy: the omega directive. Janeway states something like 'the omega molecule is what started the big bang'. It seems to me star trek, for the most part, is more scientific orientated than today.
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Kyre
Commodore
Joined: 15 Mar 2002
Posts: 1263
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| Thu May 06, 2004 7:22 am |
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| Jeff Miller wrote: | | God would contradict everything in daily life. It is very hard to believe in something that has no proof of existence, only just beliefs. And, to me, evolution just makes more sense compared to creation. Also, there are the questions, who created god? How did he evolve from nothing? Whats his real purpose? What makes it easier to believe in god, rather than evolution? |
These are things that noone can comprehend. What was before the big bang? Who created God? Seriously think about those questions and try and answer them. You can't. I don't believe in the existence or non-existence of God, but if he does exist, for arguments sake, he surely doesn't belong to any scientific analysis you could try and submit.
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Puck
The Texan
Joined: 05 Jan 2004
Posts: 5596
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| Thu May 06, 2004 7:48 am |
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| PrankishSmart wrote: | | Triam_Paris wrote: | | Jeff Miller wrote: | | If god exists where is his body? if Jesus exists where his body? do we really have any definative proof that they exist when I say Proof I mean DNA Sample not some pokey cloth that is said to have a image I want the real stuff. Hell give me a Skeleton give me something to really make me think "Damn the man does exist." Can you do that? |
I'll give you that evidence once you give me evidence that the wind exists. You can't. you can't see the wind itself, but you can feel it, smell it, see the effects of it. Get my metaphor? |
Satellite weather technology can detect wind, though. Why can't technology pick up God??? But of a strange question, but I will wait for an answer.
I will tell you why it's so hard to believe in a all mighty god...
We have a physics driven lifestyle. God would contradict everything in daily life. It is very hard to believe in something that has no proof of existence, only just beliefs. And, to me, evolution just makes more sense compared to creation. Also, there are the questions, who created god? How did he evolve from nothing? Whats his real purpose? What makes it easier to believe in god, rather than evolution?
I can say one thing. I don't think this debate would ever end. Well will always be looking for the truth. It also seems to me that there are no religions in the world of star trek, as they might have proof that the big bang did occur. |
Technology can pick up the wind but not God?????  
First of all, I find it very offensive that you would compare the wind to God in that manner.
Secondly, evolution is what I beleive and does in no way disprove of God.
Thirdly, the big bang does not disprove of God.
Fourthly, lets remember Star Trek is after all a television show, and lets not get the basis for our veiws on religion from it.
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Captain Dappet
Forum Revolutionist
Joined: 06 Feb 2002
Posts: 16756
Location: On my supersonic rocket ship.
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| Thu May 06, 2004 12:31 pm |
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Triam_Paris compared God to the wind, but you didn't seem to mind then...
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Sam Kenobi
Not a Duke
Joined: 13 Jun 2003
Posts: 10373
Location: The 'Verse
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| Thu May 06, 2004 2:06 pm |
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That's because, Dappy, I used it in a metaphorical sense... there's a difference
I'm not offended by your "evidence", but thats still just the effects of the wind.
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Puck
The Texan
Joined: 05 Jan 2004
Posts: 5596
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| Thu May 06, 2004 6:26 pm |
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^^Notice how I said, "In this manner"
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Leo Wyatt
Sweetest Angel
Joined: 25 Feb 2004
Posts: 19045
Location: Investigating A Crime Scene. What did Quark do this time?
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| Fri May 07, 2004 5:50 am |
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One day those who don't believe in God, will see the evidence when Jesus returns and those who are christians go up in the rapture while those who are non believers will be left behind. Til then believe what you want. Nobody is forcing you too.
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IntrepidIsMe
Pimp Handed
Joined: 14 Jun 2002
Posts: 13057
Location: New York
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| Fri May 07, 2004 3:00 pm |
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I can't wait, 
-------signature-------
"Nelly, I am Heathcliff! He's always, always in my mind: not as a pleasure, any more than I am always a pleasure to myself, but as my own being."
-Wuthering Heights
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Jeremy
J's Guy
Joined: 03 Oct 2002
Posts: 7823
Location: Aberdeen, Scotland
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| Fri May 07, 2004 4:20 pm |
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| PrankishSmart wrote: | | Triam_Paris wrote: | | Jeff Miller wrote: | | If god exists where is his body? if Jesus exists where his body? do we really have any definative proof that they exist when I say Proof I mean DNA Sample not some pokey cloth that is said to have a image I want the real stuff. Hell give me a Skeleton give me something to really make me think "Damn the man does exist." Can you do that? |
I'll give you that evidence once you give me evidence that the wind exists. You can't. you can't see the wind itself, but you can feel it, smell it, see the effects of it. Get my metaphor? |
Satellite weather technology can detect wind, though. Why can't technology pick up God??? But of a strange question, but I will wait for an answer.
I will tell you why it's so hard to believe in a all mighty god...
We have a physics driven lifestyle. God would contradict everything in daily life. It is very hard to believe in something that has no proof of existence, only just beliefs. And, to me, evolution just makes more sense compared to creation. Also, there are the questions, who created god? How did he evolve from nothing? Whats his real purpose? What makes it easier to believe in god, rather than evolution?
I can say one thing. I don't think this debate would ever end. Well will always be looking for the truth. It also seems to me that there are no religions in the world of star trek, as they might have proof that the big bang did occur. |
The Big Bang theory (it's a theory remember, not actually proven, but the most realistic thing with the evidence at the moment) doesn't actually disapprove of God and the creation story. In the Bible it says that God said "Let there be light" or similar things and then it happened. It doesn't actually say that it happened because of a certain scientific means.
The question who created God doesn't actually disapprove of him either in a way. Science has not said what became before the Big Bang. It takes as much faith to believe in God as the faith to believe that there was no time before the Big Bang so you can't say what happened.
And yes, this debate will carry on till the end of the world. The way you know about God as such isn't so much scientific eveidence as personal experience. While there is eveidence that Jesus did live, there isn't any that he rose from the dead. You "know" that God exists because he "speaks" to you and also looks after you. In times of trouble his presence helps you though.
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Arellia
The Quiet One
Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Posts: 4425
Location: Dallas, TX
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| Fri May 07, 2004 6:21 pm |
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| kmma wrote: | | One day those who don't believe in God, will see the evidence when Jesus returns and those who are christians go up in the rapture while those who are non believers will be left behind. Til then believe what you want. Nobody is forcing you too. |
Not all Christians. I won't be coming, even though I am devoutly Christian. And I can think of at least 4000 other people, Christians, (There are plenty of others) who will be absent as well. The "Rapture" is one theory derived from some verses, not every Christian who follows both testaments, or even just the new testament, goes along with it. I most certainly do not.
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