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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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 Mon Apr 26, 2004 11:15 pm |
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| Jeff Miller wrote: | | Ok you say he liberated people from a ruthless dictator? yea and look at the fallout we are losing atleast one ONE solider a day. Because of Bush we are now the most hated nation in the world. Because of Bush and his lack of paying attention to his people my town is now basically nothing but a run down city because no one can get jobs. Bush should be worrying more about his people in the US than what some idiot thinks about us 1,000 miles away. Plus where is the lower gas prices? I think imo that Bush is responsible for the freaking high gas prices. I think that we could get a chimp to do a better job than bush and it would cost less but than the last comments are my opinion. |
First off, people are going to die, but that does NOT mean we didn't liberate a people. There are people that don't want freedom and democracy in the world.
2nd, the media SPINS things. We are NOT the most "hated" country in the world--that's just by many Middle Eastern Countries and France and a few others...You can't judge that based on a FEW countries...
3rd, the main reason that we went to Iraq WAS for the WMDs, we just happened to Liberate a country on the way, which is GREAT because now the terrorists are upset--that's why so many people are dieing, Jeff!
4th, we HAVE to stay in Iraq--to leave would be to give into the terrorists
5th, it is NOT Bush's fault that the economy is that bad--let's look at the past:
-Bush inherited recession from Clinton
-Dot Com bubble burst
-SEPTEMBER 11th happened, and the economy still hasn't fully recovered from THEAT
-Inflation is now at an all-time low for the past 6 years or so
-THREE HUNDRED AND EIGHT THOUSAND NEW JOBS WERE ADDED IN MARCH ALONE!, PLUS SOMETHING, I FORGET WHAT, THAT MADE IT SLIGHTLY OVER 400,000 NEW JOBS...Your town just might not be that good--your town and a few others around the country...
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Arellia
The Quiet One
Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Posts: 4425
Location: Dallas, TX
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| Mon Apr 26, 2004 11:18 pm |
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| Jeff Miller wrote: | | Ok you say he liberated people from a ruthless dictator? yea and look at the fallout we are losing atleast one ONE solider a day. Because of Bush we are now the most hated nation in the world. Because of Bush and his lack of paying attention to his people my town is now basically nothing but a run down city because no one can get jobs. Bush should be worrying more about his people in the US than what some idiot thinks about us 1,000 miles away. Plus where is the lower gas prices? I think imo that Bush is responsible for the freaking high gas prices. I think that we could get a chimp to do a better job than bush and it would cost less but than the last comments are my opinion. |
I would just like to say that you should realize that the president is NOT directly responsible for creating jobs in such small areas. What, has he forgotten to install the *Magic* job maker in every town? I don't see that there's a WHOLE LOT he can do about jobs in ALL areas, so tell me, how exactly would you propose he do that? Nobody in my area can get a job either, but it's a highly populated area. Lots of competition. Is it BUSH'S fault that there's a shortage of large department stores in my area to employ masses of people? Actually, it's the falling-off-the-left-side-of-the-court hippies protesting the Wal Marts. 
Anyway...onto the real topic...
Freedom of speech is a civil right. It should not be curtailed, I don't think...look into a local newspaper, you'll find your share of dispariging art of the president. I DO NOT AGREE with what the kid did, I think it's distasteful, but hey, free country...
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Theresa
Lux Mihi Deus
Joined: 17 Jun 2001
Posts: 27256
Location: United States of America
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| Mon Apr 26, 2004 11:20 pm |
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It is really very embarrassing how ignorant most Americans are of their own history...
(Not directed at you, B'Ellanna_Torrez, just a general statement)
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Some of us fall by the wayside
And some of us soar to the stars
And some of us sail through our troubles
And some have to live with our scars
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Jeff Miller
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 22 Nov 2001
Posts: 23947
Location: Mental Ward for the Mentaly Unstable 6th floor, Saint John's 1615 Delaware Longview Washington 98632
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| Mon Apr 26, 2004 11:28 pm |
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| Republican_Man wrote: | | First off, people are going to die, but that does NOT mean we didn't liberate a people. There are people that don't want freedom and democracy in the world. |
Granted people are going to die but he should have been more carefull about when he announced that all major battles were over. From what I'm seeing he's dead wrong.
| Republican_Man wrote: | | 2nd, the media SPINS things. We are NOT the most "hated" country in the world--that's just by many Middle Eastern Countries and France and a few others...You can't judge that based on a FEW countries... |
no one wants to help us that alone tells me how hated we are I don't know where you been lately. but when someone doesn't want to help us thats not because they are being friendly thats because they hate us.
| Republican_Man wrote: | | 3rd, the main reason that we went to Iraq WAS for the WMDs, we just happened to Liberate a country on the way, which is GREAT because now the terrorists are upset--that's why so many people are dieing, Jeff! |
Oh yes those evil and deadly WMD's where are they? the only junk the inspectors found was some small parts that could be for anything, anything from a door knob to a deep fryer the WMD's is the biggest pack of lies about the war.
| Republican_Man wrote: | | 4th, we HAVE to stay in Iraq--to leave would be to give into the terrorists |
True won't fight you with you on that but we needed more info before we went in.
| Republican_Man wrote: | 5th, it is NOT Bush's fault that the economy is that bad--let's look at the past:
-Bush inherited recession from Clinton
-Dot Com bubble burst
-SEPTEMBER 11th happened, and the economy still hasn't fully recovered from THEAT
-Inflation is now at an all-time low for the past 6 years or so
-THREE HUNDRED AND EIGHT THOUSAND NEW JOBS WERE ADDED IN MARCH ALONE!, PLUS SOMETHING, I FORGET WHAT, THAT MADE IT SLIGHTLY OVER 400,000 NEW JOBS...Your town just might not be that good--your town and a few others around the country... |
Yea ok Clinton did some wrong things..... won't say what but the economy isn't his fault my town was packed with business untill Bush gave those checks away back in 2000 if I remember right. You remember those checks don't you? those were the checks that were sposed to jump start the economy all they did was drive this country into the poor house imo.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Mon Apr 26, 2004 11:32 pm |
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Okay, enough with this here...Go to the 2004 elections one for my reply...
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Anti-crombie1
Dr. Greenthumb
Joined: 10 Aug 2002
Posts: 2561
Location: ya mums house
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| Wed Apr 28, 2004 7:49 pm |
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secret service? damn
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Wed Apr 28, 2004 7:52 pm |
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In this day and age, with terrorism inside the house, threats need to be taken seriously--no matter how severe. However, it was a bit extreme...
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Anti-crombie1
Dr. Greenthumb
Joined: 10 Aug 2002
Posts: 2561
Location: ya mums house
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| Wed Apr 28, 2004 8:05 pm |
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yea, i'd say just a little
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T. Dean
Captain
Joined: 16 Dec 2003
Posts: 715
Location: Winston-Salem, North Carolina
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| Wed Apr 28, 2004 8:39 pm |
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We better watch what we say. Say something wrong and you might have the secret service busting down your door ... but that's how the government will have to beat these terrorists, who so hate our freedom ... by taking our freedoms away.  
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Kyre
Commodore
Joined: 15 Mar 2002
Posts: 1263
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| Thu Apr 29, 2004 4:32 am |
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Heh.
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Theresa
Lux Mihi Deus
Joined: 17 Jun 2001
Posts: 27256
Location: United States of America
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| Thu Apr 29, 2004 9:28 am |
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I'm sorry, relevance? A bad pic of Bush..., amusing yes, but no purpose in this topic.
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Some of us fall by the wayside
And some of us soar to the stars
And some of us sail through our troubles
And some have to live with our scars
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Kyre
Commodore
Joined: 15 Mar 2002
Posts: 1263
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| Thu Apr 29, 2004 12:33 pm |
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If you can't see the relevance of an amusing Bush picture in a thread containing a discussion of the man, with one poster being ridiculously sheep like in his support, then...well I don't know really...
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Thu Apr 29, 2004 5:05 pm |
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^That is not what the topic is about! And that was the MILITARY who put it up...
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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T. Dean
Captain
Joined: 16 Dec 2003
Posts: 715
Location: Winston-Salem, North Carolina
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| Thu Apr 29, 2004 7:27 pm |
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^I'm with Kyre on this one, GOP-Man, you've just spent a good amount of thread time discussing Bush and his many great deeds but when somebody wants to point out something negative about Bush, you decide to change the subject.
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Puck
The Texan
Joined: 05 Jan 2004
Posts: 5596
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| Thu Apr 29, 2004 8:22 pm |
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I dont think he usually changes the subject, he usually does a good job of defending what he beleives.
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Theresa
Lux Mihi Deus
Joined: 17 Jun 2001
Posts: 27256
Location: United States of America
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| Thu Apr 29, 2004 9:49 pm |
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| Kyre wrote: | | If you can't see the relevance of an amusing Bush picture in a thread containing a discussion of the man, with one poster being ridiculously sheep like in his support, then...well I don't know really... |
I get that, but we are trying to have an adult, as much as possible, discussion here... Do you get that? RM is passionate about his beliefs, in your eyes, a "sheep". But it's what he sees when HE looks in the mirror that counts.
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Some of us fall by the wayside
And some of us soar to the stars
And some of us sail through our troubles
And some have to live with our scars
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Thu Apr 29, 2004 10:33 pm |
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| Theresa wrote: | | Kyre wrote: | | If you can't see the relevance of an amusing Bush picture in a thread containing a discussion of the man, with one poster being ridiculously sheep like in his support, then...well I don't know really... |
I get that, but we are trying to have an adult, as much as possible, discussion here... Do you get that? RM is passionate about his beliefs, in your eyes, a "sheep". But it's what he sees when HE looks in the mirror that counts. |
Thank you for your support--you too, Janeway.
And I have NO PROBLEM accepting criticism about Bush, I just DEBATE it--which I find is fun.
But I WOULD like to get back to that topic, if we could...
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Jeremy
J's Guy
Joined: 03 Oct 2002
Posts: 7823
Location: Aberdeen, Scotland
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| Fri Apr 30, 2004 8:37 am |
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| Republican_Man wrote: | | Jeff Miller wrote: | | Ok you say he liberated people from a ruthless dictator? yea and look at the fallout we are losing atleast one ONE solider a day. Because of Bush we are now the most hated nation in the world. Because of Bush and his lack of paying attention to his people my town is now basically nothing but a run down city because no one can get jobs. Bush should be worrying more about his people in the US than what some idiot thinks about us 1,000 miles away. Plus where is the lower gas prices? I think imo that Bush is responsible for the freaking high gas prices. I think that we could get a chimp to do a better job than bush and it would cost less but than the last comments are my opinion. |
First off, people are going to die, but that does NOT mean we didn't liberate a people. There are people that don't want freedom and democracy in the world.
2nd, the media SPINS things. We are NOT the most "hated" country in the world--that's just by many Middle Eastern Countries and France and a few others...You can't judge that based on a FEW countries...
3rd, the main reason that we went to Iraq WAS for the WMDs, we just happened to Liberate a country on the way, which is GREAT because now the terrorists are upset--that's why so many people are dieing, Jeff!
4th, we HAVE to stay in Iraq--to leave would be to give into the terrorists
5th, it is NOT Bush's fault that the economy is that bad--let's look at the past:
-Bush inherited recession from Clinton
-Dot Com bubble burst
-SEPTEMBER 11th happened, and the economy still hasn't fully recovered from THEAT
-Inflation is now at an all-time low for the past 6 years or so
-THREE HUNDRED AND EIGHT THOUSAND NEW JOBS WERE ADDED IN MARCH ALONE!, PLUS SOMETHING, I FORGET WHAT, THAT MADE IT SLIGHTLY OVER 400,000 NEW JOBS...Your town just might not be that good--your town and a few others around the country... |
Don't jump me because of these opions, or arguements. Some are mine, and some are flaws I see with the arguements put forward.
2. The Middle East (apart from Israel, who is pro-American obviously) takes up quite a lot of the world. Also A lot of people from countries that are pro-War are actually against the attacks on Iraq, actually make that Saddam and his Dictorship. It was the leaders that are pro-war. Here in Britain, probably America's closest ally, most people were actually against the War. In a lot of Europe the actual people are against the War as well. It's not just the media spinning it to make it look like Bush is evil.
3. Some of the people reffered to you as Terrorists aren't actually. Sure, it's good that most of the civilians in Iraq are freed from the oppresive rule from Saddam, but now they are also scared to go outside IN SOME PLACES (not all).
4. Basically True
5. I don't know much about the American economy, but the world economy has been struggling, so this could easily be linked with an slow down. But then it might not, I don't know enough about this. This is to both sides, Republicans and Democrates: Jobs might have been created or lost, but what ones? If the ones created are for things such as serving at Burger King and the ones lost Engineering for example, then that is bad. If its the other way round then thats good.
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Leo Wyatt
Sweetest Angel
Joined: 25 Feb 2004
Posts: 19045
Location: Investigating A Crime Scene. What did Quark do this time?
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| Fri Apr 30, 2004 8:41 am |
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Take all the mills in south carolina was shut down when Clinton was in office when he sent jobs to Mexico and to other places. And Bush gets the blame for what Clinton had done.
Plus there was other jobs in other states that was shut down. It is not Bush.
Yes, there are jobs created since Bush was in office.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Fri Apr 30, 2004 5:21 pm |
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| Jeremy wrote: | | Republican_Man wrote: | | Jeff Miller wrote: | | Ok you say he liberated people from a ruthless dictator? yea and look at the fallout we are losing atleast one ONE solider a day. Because of Bush we are now the most hated nation in the world. Because of Bush and his lack of paying attention to his people my town is now basically nothing but a run down city because no one can get jobs. Bush should be worrying more about his people in the US than what some idiot thinks about us 1,000 miles away. Plus where is the lower gas prices? I think imo that Bush is responsible for the freaking high gas prices. I think that we could get a chimp to do a better job than bush and it would cost less but than the last comments are my opinion. |
First off, people are going to die, but that does NOT mean we didn't liberate a people. There are people that don't want freedom and democracy in the world.
2nd, the media SPINS things. We are NOT the most "hated" country in the world--that's just by many Middle Eastern Countries and France and a few others...You can't judge that based on a FEW countries...
3rd, the main reason that we went to Iraq WAS for the WMDs, we just happened to Liberate a country on the way, which is GREAT because now the terrorists are upset--that's why so many people are dieing, Jeff!
4th, we HAVE to stay in Iraq--to leave would be to give into the terrorists
5th, it is NOT Bush's fault that the economy is that bad--let's look at the past:
-Bush inherited recession from Clinton
-Dot Com bubble burst
-SEPTEMBER 11th happened, and the economy still hasn't fully recovered from THEAT
-Inflation is now at an all-time low for the past 6 years or so
-THREE HUNDRED AND EIGHT THOUSAND NEW JOBS WERE ADDED IN MARCH ALONE!, PLUS SOMETHING, I FORGET WHAT, THAT MADE IT SLIGHTLY OVER 400,000 NEW JOBS...Your town just might not be that good--your town and a few others around the country... |
Don't jump me because of these opions, or arguements. Some are mine, and some are flaws I see with the arguements put forward.
2. The Middle East (apart from Israel, who is pro-American obviously) takes up quite a lot of the world. Also A lot of people from countries that are pro-War are actually against the attacks on Iraq, actually make that Saddam and his Dictorship. It was the leaders that are pro-war. Here in Britain, probably America's closest ally, most people were actually against the War. In a lot of Europe the actual people are against the War as well. It's not just the media spinning it to make it look like Bush is evil.
Okay, you make a decent point...I know that, for instance, the British people were against, and still are against the war, but we have allies/friends in Iraq and Afganhistan, and now PAKISTAN HAS BEEN HELPING US...But of course in the Middle East we aren't liked too much (because we're free) but there is NO WAY that we are HATED AS MUCH AS THE MEDIA SAYS!
3. Some of the people reffered to you as Terrorists aren't actually. Sure, it's good that most of the civilians in Iraq are freed from the oppresive rule from Saddam, but now they are also scared to go outside IN SOME PLACES (not all).
What does that have to do with them NOT being terrorists? And the other thing is BECAUSE terrorists are on te loose.
4. Basically True
5. I don't know much about the American economy, but the world economy has been struggling, so this could easily be linked with an slow down. But then it might not, I don't know enough about this. This is to both sides, Republicans and Democrates: Jobs might have been created or lost, but what ones? If the ones created are for things such as serving at Burger King and the ones lost Engineering for example, then that is bad. If its the other way round then thats good.
Fine...I somewhat agree... |
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Monkey
Captain
Joined: 05 Feb 2004
Posts: 833
Location: On a quest you probably wouldn't believe.
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| Sat May 01, 2004 12:14 am |
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I don't think i can believe that something like that could happen. I draw stuff like that all the time and no one cares I mean it's just ink on a piece of paper
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Jeremy
J's Guy
Joined: 03 Oct 2002
Posts: 7823
Location: Aberdeen, Scotland
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| Sat May 01, 2004 4:06 am |
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| Jeremy wrote: | Don't jump me because of these opions, or arguements. Some are mine, and some are flaws I see with the arguements put forward.
2. The Middle East (apart from Israel, who is pro-American obviously) takes up quite a lot of the world. Also A lot of people from countries that are pro-War are actually against the attacks on Iraq, actually make that Saddam and his Dictorship. It was the leaders that are pro-war. Here in Britain, probably America's closest ally, most people were actually against the War. In a lot of Europe the actual people are against the War as well. It's not just the media spinning it to make it look like Bush is evil. |
| Republican_Man wrote: | | Okay, you make a decent point...I know that, for instance, the British people were against, and still are against the war, but we have allies/friends in Iraq and Afganhistan, and now PAKISTAN HAS BEEN HELPING US...But of course in the Middle East we aren't liked too much (because we're free) but there is NO WAY that we are HATED AS MUCH AS THE MEDIA SAYS! |
I never said that America is as hated as the media make out, as they will point out the bad stuff thats happening as it's the stuff that gets the viewing figures, but still, America is disliked by quite a lot of countries. I don't know what the media coverage is like in America, as I know from experience it can be quite different from here, and it also seems CNN and Fox cover a lot of different things from what people say here. I would say the reason that America isn't liked much in the Middle East is not because you are "free" but because of a few reasons. One, you are steriotypically Christian. Since quite a few are extremest Muslims they want to attack America in a Jihad. Second, they have been told that America is after their oil, and that that is the only reason America "helps" their countries.
| Jeremy wrote: | | 3. Some of the people reffered to you as Terrorists aren't actually. Sure, it's good that most of the civilians in Iraq are freed from the oppresive rule from Saddam, but now they are also scared to go outside IN SOME PLACES (not all). |
| Republican_Man wrote: | | What does that have to do with them NOT being terrorists? And the other thing is BECAUSE terrorists are on te loose. |
Some of the people in Iraq that are attacking the Americans aren't terrorists as such. There is now a fight for power that Saddam has gone. They are basically fighting so they can have the majority of power and innocents are being killed. Don't get me wrong, I'm not anti-war (although I wasn't pro-war either) but I'm saying what is going on at the moment. It's not the terrorists that would attack America mainly fighting in Iraq, but rather people who either: want the Americans out of the country, or their religious leaders have told them to. That is not saying that there isn't terrorists that will attack American and other "Christian" countries, but not all the fighting is terrorists.
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Pah-Wraith
Sheikh
Joined: 30 Nov 2001
Posts: 6012
Location: Londonistan.
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| Sat May 01, 2004 4:22 am |
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| Quote: | | [b]Okay, you make a decent point...I know that, for instance, the British people were against, and still are against the war, but we have allies/friends in Iraq and Afganhistan, and now PAKISTAN HAS BEEN HELPING US...But of course in the Middle East we aren't liked too much (because we're free) |
What are you talking about? With the Exception of Ghaddafi's Regime in Libya (which the west has actually made friends with) and the Arabs living in Israel, people are as free as they want to be in the Middle East. The Majority of Middle Eastern Laws are based on Muslim Laws and Rules in the Qur'an and the majority do not live under stricht oppression of any Leader. Envy you because you are free!?! do you know how pathetic that sounds? Maybe if you actually go and visit some of the countries in the Middle East like I have done you'd start to see things clearly
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Theresa
Lux Mihi Deus
Joined: 17 Jun 2001
Posts: 27256
Location: United States of America
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| Sat May 01, 2004 10:08 am |
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If we all had to travel everywhere before voicing our opinion, no one would be able to talk. Everyone has felt free to trash Bush, seeing him only from a European standpoint, so the reverse must also be true for Americans and others who haven't been to the Middle East.
-------signature-------
Some of us fall by the wayside
And some of us soar to the stars
And some of us sail through our troubles
And some have to live with our scars
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Puck
The Texan
Joined: 05 Jan 2004
Posts: 5596
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| Sat May 01, 2004 11:51 am |
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| Pah-Wraith wrote: | | Quote: | | [b]Okay, you make a decent point...I know that, for instance, the British people were against, and still are against the war, but we have allies/friends in Iraq and Afganhistan, and now PAKISTAN HAS BEEN HELPING US...But of course in the Middle East we aren't liked too much (because we're free) |
What are you talking about? With the Exception of Ghaddafi's Regime in Libya (which the west has actually made friends with) and the Arabs living in Israel, people are as free as they want to be in the Middle East. The Majority of Middle Eastern Laws are based on Muslim Laws and Rules in the Qur'an and the majority do not live under stricht oppression of any Leader. Envy you because you are free!?! do you know how pathetic that sounds? Maybe if you actually go and visit some of the countries in the Middle East like I have done you'd start to see things clearly |
I don't know, but from what I have read, and beleive me, I have read, the whole region appears to be oppressive. Just a few of the main oppressive regimes are Iran, Suadi Arabia, Egypt, Syria is not all that spectacular, Sudan, there was Iraq, and there was Afghanistan........
I honestly beleive that many of them do envy America, or it least certain principles that America stands for. They envy the fact that the majority of our population can read and write, they envy the fact that in America, everyone is promised at least be able to pursue life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness however they choose, they envy the fact that we are a society that will dig until it has found every person in the World Trade center rubble, they envy the fact that although we think it may not be so...that we have a very nice house, with an AC, a fridge, running water, working sewers, they envy that we can speak out against our government, and that we can fight for what we beleive, they envy the fact that in the 1950's South Korea had the same per capita income as many middle eastern states, but has now managed its devolpement so well that it now dwarfs many middle-eastern states, they envy the fact that nearly all of our children can go to school and have the chance to do what they want with their lives, they envy the fact that women in America are equal to men, they envy the fact that we can hold truly free elections every four years.........
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