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Monkey
Captain
Joined: 05 Feb 2004
Posts: 833
Location: On a quest you probably wouldn't believe.
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 Mon Apr 05, 2004 5:26 am I just don't get it |
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| Quote: | Suspected ringleader among suicide bombers
Three or four may have escaped, authorities say
Pedro Armestre / AFP - Getty Images
An explosion in front of a building in the Madrid suburb of Leganes on Saturday killed a special operations agent and three Madrid bombing suspects. FREE VIDEO
� Spanish suspects kill themselves
April 4: Spanish authorities say there probably would have been more attacks if the suspects hadn't killed themselves.
Nightly News
The Associated Press
Updated: 9:07 p.m. ET April 04, 2004MADRID, Spain - The ringleader of the Madrid terrorist attack blew himself up along with three other suspects as police prepared to storm their apartment, Interior Minister Angel Acebes said Sunday.
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The group had explosives ready for more attacks, he said.
Acebes said the four who died Saturday night included a Tunisian named Sarhane Ben Abdelmajid Fakhet, described by Spanish authorities as the leader of the group suspected of carrying out the March 11 train attacks that killed 191 people.
"The core of the group that carried out the attacks is either arrested or dead in yesterday's collective suicide, including the head of the operative commando," Acebes told a news conference.
As police got ready to storm the apartment in Leganes, south of Madrid, the suspected terrorists set off a thundering blast that also killed a special operations officer and wounded 15 other policemen.
One of the dead suspects was found with an explosives-laden belt around his body, Acebes said.
International warrants
Fahket was one of six men for whom international arrest warrants were issued. Another man on that list, Abdennabi Kounjaa, a Moroccan, was identified as among the four who died Saturday night. A third man -- Asri Rifaat Anouar, was not on the list. The fourth suspect has not been identified, Acebes said.
Two or three people may have escaped before the explosion, he said. The probe in the March 11 attacks will now focus on what connections the bombers may have had abroad or with other terrorist groups, Acebes said.
In the apartment, police found 200 detonators of the kind used in the March 11 attacks and in a bomb that was placed along a high speed rail-line on Friday but failed to detonate, Acebes said. They also found 22 pounds of dynamite in the apartment where the four terrorists blew themselves up Saturday night, he said.
"They were going to keep on attacking because some of the explosives were prepared, packed and connected to detonators," Acebes said.
The blast gutted at least one floor of the building -- a square structure with a central courtyard where children had been playing soccer until they were evacuated. The explosion sent up a huge plume of black smoke and revealed rooms littered with concrete and wires dangling from ceilings. Architects will now decide whether it is to demolished altogether because of structural damage.
Police had approached the building at around 7 p.m. to make arrests as part of an escalating manhunt for those responsible for the March 11 bombings.
The suspects spotted the police from a window and shot at them, shouting in Arabic, the Interior Ministry said. No police officers were hurt by the gunfire.
Area evacuated
Over the next two hours, police evacuated as many people as they could from the building and surrounding area and prepared for an assault on the apartment.
As the terrorists shot at police from the apartment, "they shouted 'God is great' and Islamic verses," the newspaper El Mundo quoted a resident of the building as saying. It identified him only as Alberto M., who lived two floors up.
El Pais said special forces preparing the assault managed to communicate with the terrorists and gave them a deadline to surrender. But the terrorists shouted back "God is great. We are going to go out killing," the newspaper said, quoting police.
The terrorists set off their bomb in a second-story apartment after police blasted open the ground-floor entrance, the Interior Ministry said.
Acebes did not say how the bodies had been identified. Another ministry official said it was either visually or with fingerprints.
The special forces officer who died in the explosion was identified Sunday as Javier Torrontera, 41. He was married and had two children.
His funeral was planned for Sunday afternoon in the town of Guadalajara, and incoming Prime Minister Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero and outgoing premier Jose Maria Aznar were scheduled to attend.
Suspects in custody
The investigation into the commuter rail attacks has focused on the Moroccan Islamic Combatant Group, which has links to al-Qaida and is related to a group suspected in last year's Casablanca bombings, which killed 45 people including 12 suicide bombers.
Spain has been a major U.S. ally in Iraq and has been warned previously by al-Qaida that it would be the target of terrorism for its support.
Judge Juan del Olmo, the investigating magistrate, had issued international arrest warrants for five Moroccans and the Tunisian.
Another 15 suspects are already in custody. Six have been charged with mass murder and nine with collaborating with or belonging to a terrorist organization. Eleven of the 15 charged are Moroccan.
After Friday's bomb scare along the high-speed rail line from Madrid to Seville, train service resumed Saturday, but soldiers, police and Civil Guard officers could be seen patrolling the targeted rail lines. Sunday is the start of Holy Week, when many Spaniards take vacation or travel to their hometowns for the Easter holiday.
Also Saturday, the Spanish newspaper El Mundo reported that the Spanish Embassy in Egypt received a letter from an Islamic militant group threatening new attacks if Spain did not withdraw its troops from Iraq and Afghanistan.
In the letter, the Brigade of Abu Hafs al-Masri, a group that also claimed responsibility for the March 11 attacks, threatened to strike against Spanish diplomatic missions in North Africa and the Mediterranean region unless Spanish troops are withdrawn in four weeks. |
See I don't know why but stuff like this with death and stuff just doesnt affect me at all. Maybe theres just somthing wrong with me
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Captain Dappet
Forum Revolutionist
Joined: 06 Feb 2002
Posts: 16756
Location: On my supersonic rocket ship.
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| Mon Apr 05, 2004 5:45 am |
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Me neither, actually.
I'm guessing people like you and me have to see death first hand to be affected by it.
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T. Dean
Captain
Joined: 16 Dec 2003
Posts: 715
Location: Winston-Salem, North Carolina
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| Mon Apr 05, 2004 7:31 pm |
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Jeez, it affects me. I've lot of people I know have died in the past couple of years but I've never seen death firsthand. I think a lot of people are affected because they can put themselves in the victim's shoes. I mean, what is it like? What do they feel? See? Smell? We don't know and that's terrifying. The unknown is terrifying.
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Captain Dappet
Forum Revolutionist
Joined: 06 Feb 2002
Posts: 16756
Location: On my supersonic rocket ship.
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| Tue Apr 06, 2004 6:48 am |
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I don't think it is....As far as I'm concerned, the unkown is nothing...Of course, you can imagine something in the great unknown, but I wouldn't say it's terrifying....Maybe I'm just insane.  I dunno.
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Monkey
Captain
Joined: 05 Feb 2004
Posts: 833
Location: On a quest you probably wouldn't believe.
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| Tue Apr 06, 2004 7:39 am |
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Hey Cappy if your insane then it's cool to be insane.
I'm insane too 
-------signature-------
"Maybe I should get myself fired."
Millennium Actress
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Theresa
Lux Mihi Deus
Joined: 17 Jun 2001
Posts: 27256
Location: United States of America
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| Tue Apr 06, 2004 7:54 am |
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I cried on 9/11, watching the people jumping out of the windows, and knowing that everyone in there was dead. And I was also angry seeing the pics of the bodies from Fallujah, but I can understand how it's possible to feel disassociated from it all.
-------signature-------
Some of us fall by the wayside
And some of us soar to the stars
And some of us sail through our troubles
And some have to live with our scars
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Puck
The Texan
Joined: 05 Jan 2004
Posts: 5596
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| Tue Apr 06, 2004 5:14 pm |
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For me unless the deaths are very horrific, and I see pictures, it doesn't effect me that much...even on 9-11, I did not really feel effected at the time. However, I just got my Newsweek and saw pictures of the bodies disgraced at Fallugha, that really gave me the chills.
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Monkey
Captain
Joined: 05 Feb 2004
Posts: 833
Location: On a quest you probably wouldn't believe.
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| Tue Apr 06, 2004 7:40 pm |
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See 9/11 barely effected me. To me it was just death I mean 32,000 children die every day from starvation thats Thirty Million, Eighty Thousand Children since 9/11
-------signature-------
"Maybe I should get myself fired."
Millennium Actress
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Capt.Nero
Lieutenant, Junior Grade
Joined: 06 Apr 2004
Posts: 105
Location: Canada
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| Tue Apr 06, 2004 7:54 pm |
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Soo true that is true.Though what happened on Sept.11th was horrible.Those children that are starving in Africa and South America for some reason seem to be ignored.I know alot of nations are giving money to them.Though really the money there giving..isnt very much.Including the United States.
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Theresa
Lux Mihi Deus
Joined: 17 Jun 2001
Posts: 27256
Location: United States of America
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| Tue Apr 06, 2004 8:07 pm |
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| Monkey wrote: | | See 9/11 barely effected me. To me it was just death I mean 32,000 children die every day from starvation thats Thirty Million, Eighty Thousand Children since 9/11 |
Then I would seek help. If the murder of civilians, by being literally burned alive doesn't bother you, something is amiss.
-------signature-------
Some of us fall by the wayside
And some of us soar to the stars
And some of us sail through our troubles
And some have to live with our scars
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Monkey
Captain
Joined: 05 Feb 2004
Posts: 833
Location: On a quest you probably wouldn't believe.
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| Tue Apr 06, 2004 8:13 pm |
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what are you talking about? Japan has lost nearly 3,000,000 people to our attacks but no one here gives a care
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Capt.Nero
Lieutenant, Junior Grade
Joined: 06 Apr 2004
Posts: 105
Location: Canada
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| Tue Apr 06, 2004 8:15 pm |
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Ur talking about the attack that ended world war 2? Ur right....but that was a looong time ago.When america started the era of Weopons Of Mass Destruction as we know it.However why are u bringing up something that happened half a century ago?
-------signature-------
"Perfectly ridiculous, unspeakable anthropocentric, hopelessly vain are those who believe that we are something special and superior in a universe of 100,000 million billion stars."
Konstantine E. Tsiolkovsky (1857-1935)
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Theresa
Lux Mihi Deus
Joined: 17 Jun 2001
Posts: 27256
Location: United States of America
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| Tue Apr 06, 2004 8:23 pm |
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| Monkey wrote: | | what are you talking about? Japan has lost nearly 3,000,000 people to our attacks but no one here gives a care |
Really. And since when do you speak for all of America?
-------signature-------
Some of us fall by the wayside
And some of us soar to the stars
And some of us sail through our troubles
And some have to live with our scars
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Kate Janeway
Rear Admiral
Joined: 11 Mar 2002
Posts: 4120
Location: Texas
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| Wed Apr 07, 2004 7:34 pm |
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I think it's just that we're still too removed. I mean, with September 11, yes, it was horrific and we sympathize, but we (generally speaking) weren't there in person to witness it. So we see it on TV and read about it in newspapers and on the Internet, and for some, that's enough, but for others, it's pictures on a screen, words on a page. The newspaper can be put down, the screen turned off. For some, it's just not enough to see and hear it secondhand.
-------signature-------
I like children. If they're properly cooked.
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Puck
The Texan
Joined: 05 Jan 2004
Posts: 5596
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| Wed Apr 07, 2004 7:45 pm |
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I was not emotionally effected at the time...but I think it was like just one of those delayed reaction type thing, because it did begin to emotionally effect me later.
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Capt.Nero
Lieutenant, Junior Grade
Joined: 06 Apr 2004
Posts: 105
Location: Canada
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| Wed Apr 07, 2004 7:48 pm |
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In responce to what some people have been saying about Clinton not doing enough about terrorism.Why didnt bush do something about it right when he got into office.....instead of waiting a year later and then Sept.11th happened.In my personnal view.....even if the US captures Osama it wont really matter.His terrorists are throughout the world.His money has been distruputed.And by now who ever is going to attack in the future probably have there orders I would assume.And there are things Clinton did do.He almost had Bin Laden killed.I believe three times but all three times he was to late.2 of them were in the early 90's when bin laden was at a camp for a night.But left before the US shells droped.and once when he was at some kind of arab conference.Clinton nailed some top Anti-American terrorist sponsors but Bin Laden left the meeting before the Shell hit.And I also dont think Clinton could say lets go into Afganistan and go get Bin Laden.Because what evidence would he have had that Bin Laden was a threat.And who would really go along with invading a country like that prier to 9/11.Before 9/11 many amercans prolly didnt even know who Bin Laden was.And I doubt the Americans knew something like 9/11 would ever happen.Even Pres.Bush failed to capture Osama...and in my view he is in the safe haven of the Hindu Kush which the hindu kush borders with Pakistan And Afganistan.
-------signature-------
"Perfectly ridiculous, unspeakable anthropocentric, hopelessly vain are those who believe that we are something special and superior in a universe of 100,000 million billion stars."
Konstantine E. Tsiolkovsky (1857-1935)
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Monkey
Captain
Joined: 05 Feb 2004
Posts: 833
Location: On a quest you probably wouldn't believe.
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| Wed Apr 07, 2004 9:21 pm |
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| Quote: | | Then I would seek help. If the murder of civilians, by being literally burned alive doesn't bother you, something is amiss |
Maybe I do need help.... like right now my legs are bleeding becuase they got cut, when I first noticed them I did'ent care becuase I don't feel pain and maybe I just expect others not to feel it as well
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Jeremy
J's Guy
Joined: 03 Oct 2002
Posts: 7823
Location: Aberdeen, Scotland
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| Thu Apr 08, 2004 4:19 am |
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I generally need to see suffering up close to be affected by it. Or some photo's of what happened. If someone says that 10 000 people have died then it doesn't affect me very much. It's more of a number than people for some reason. I don't know why. If I think about individuals then it does affect me. Also I was affected when a friend of mine was caught in a grenade attack in Pakistan (you probably won't remember it, but it was when people went into a church and threw grenades and a number of people died, I think about 2001 or so). I had also been out with her though, so it was even worse.
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Theresa
Lux Mihi Deus
Joined: 17 Jun 2001
Posts: 27256
Location: United States of America
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| Thu Apr 08, 2004 9:51 am |
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| Capt.Nero wrote: | | In responce to what some people have been saying about Clinton not doing enough about terrorism.Why didnt bush do something about it right when he got into office.....instead of waiting a year later and then Sept.11th happened.In my personnal view.....even if the US captures Osama it wont really matter.His terrorists are throughout the world.His money has been distruputed.And by now who ever is going to attack in the future probably have there orders I would assume.And there are things Clinton did do.He almost had Bin Laden killed.I believe three times but all three times he was to late.2 of them were in the early 90's when bin laden was at a camp for a night.But left before the US shells droped.and once when he was at some kind of arab conference.Clinton nailed some top Anti-American terrorist sponsors but Bin Laden left the meeting before the Shell hit.And I also dont think Clinton could say lets go into Afganistan and go get Bin Laden.Because what evidence would he have had that Bin Laden was a threat.And who would really go along with invading a country like that prier to 9/11.Before 9/11 many amercans prolly didnt even know who Bin Laden was.And I doubt the Americans knew something like 9/11 would ever happen.Even Pres.Bush failed to capture Osama...and in my view he is in the safe haven of the Hindu Kush which the hindu kush borders with Pakistan And Afganistan. |
Oh yeah, that makes a whole lot of sense. Then he'd have been accused of racism towards those of middle eastern descent... And lets not forget, sitting in an office talking about terrorism and such is not all a president has to do. Maybe in your perfect world everyone knows everything, but this is the real world.
Besides, you clearly contradict yourself in that post. How could Bush do something prior to 9/11, but Clinton not? Clinton couldn't because 9/11 hadn't happened yet, but Bush should have to stop 9/11. Try thinking things through before posting. And Clinton had bin Laden in his sites, but bureaucracy screwed that up. (a.k.a., the UN)
-------signature-------
Some of us fall by the wayside
And some of us soar to the stars
And some of us sail through our troubles
And some have to live with our scars
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Capt.Nero
Lieutenant, Junior Grade
Joined: 06 Apr 2004
Posts: 105
Location: Canada
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| Thu Apr 08, 2004 3:50 pm |
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Oh well doesnt matter now Bin Ladens probably hiding in the Hindu Kush..which as u sayed Theresa u dont know that that is.Actually do any of u americans know what that is?
-------signature-------
"Perfectly ridiculous, unspeakable anthropocentric, hopelessly vain are those who believe that we are something special and superior in a universe of 100,000 million billion stars."
Konstantine E. Tsiolkovsky (1857-1935)
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Puck
The Texan
Joined: 05 Jan 2004
Posts: 5596
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| Thu Apr 08, 2004 5:20 pm |
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If you are talking about the Hindu-Kush, then I would like to laugh at you.
I am kinda sad that you stereotype American's as being ignorant.....I am sure you are part French since you are Canadian...that would be like me saying..."Do you French see cowardice as a good quality?"
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Capt.Nero
Lieutenant, Junior Grade
Joined: 06 Apr 2004
Posts: 105
Location: Canada
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| Thu Apr 08, 2004 5:25 pm |
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ok..u would be the first.Though if u think of it.....its right in Afganistan......and ideal place to hide dont you think?
-------signature-------
"Perfectly ridiculous, unspeakable anthropocentric, hopelessly vain are those who believe that we are something special and superior in a universe of 100,000 million billion stars."
Konstantine E. Tsiolkovsky (1857-1935)
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Puck
The Texan
Joined: 05 Jan 2004
Posts: 5596
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| Thu Apr 08, 2004 5:29 pm |
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Sheesh the majority of Afghanistan could be considered a hiding spot for BinLaden.....anyhow...why is this relevant to the conversation....I hope we haven't been spamming. 
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Theresa
Lux Mihi Deus
Joined: 17 Jun 2001
Posts: 27256
Location: United States of America
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| Thu Apr 08, 2004 10:06 pm |
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| Capt.Nero wrote: | | Oh well doesnt matter now Bin Ladens probably hiding in the Hindu Kush..which as u sayed Theresa u dont know that that is.Actually do any of u americans know what that is? |
I never said I didn't know where it was... I have the convo's logged, do you need a refresher? This is exactly why I'd rather keep the "debates" in WN, so that all can be seen.
-------signature-------
Some of us fall by the wayside
And some of us soar to the stars
And some of us sail through our troubles
And some have to live with our scars
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jbering69
Lieutenant
Joined: 09 Mar 2004
Posts: 137
Location: Canada
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| Sun Apr 11, 2004 3:29 pm |
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Something to be said for hiding places. Think about it, how many places can you think of off the top of your head you could go to right now this instant and not be found for at least one week. Now imagine that you not only had time to prepare but actively sought out hiding places before you actually needed them. Finding a person intent on not being found is not easy. Something to be said about the deaths of people. The human mind finds many ways to deal with the massive amount of information feed into it every day. One of these is disassociation. You hear a statistic, it is filed as information, but if you actually tried to assimilate all the information in a relevant fashion you wouldn't have much time but too despair.
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