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T. Dean
Captain
Joined: 16 Dec 2003
Posts: 715
Location: Winston-Salem, North Carolina
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 Sun Apr 04, 2004 11:55 pm |
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| Seven of Nine wrote: | | I'm a Socialist, and I'm joining the Socialist Workers Party |
I used to be a member of the SWP, only it's called the Intenational Socialist Organization in the US. They had to shut our branch down because nobody in my town cares about anything political, they had move to a bigger city.
But anyways, great post Seven
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Mon Apr 05, 2004 9:53 pm |
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Then how come, Link, there has been statements and articles and OFFICERS THAT SERVED WITH THE PRESIDENT that have come out to differ with that.
Yes, the President got out early, but he got DISCHARGED!
The is MORE evidence to point to the contrary, Mr. Link.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Link, the Hero of Time
Vice Admiral
Joined: 15 Sep 2001
Posts: 5581
Location: Kokori Forest, Hyrule
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| Tue Apr 06, 2004 11:19 am |
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And like most people, I'm sure before you posted you didn't read everything.
Go to http://www.tompaine.com/feature.cfm/ID/3671 They have copies of official Military papers along with some other things you'll find interesting.
Side Note, His 2 supervising officers while he was stationed in Texas Said that Bush had "not been observed at" his Texas unit during that time.
HIS OWN SUPERVISING OFFICERS PUT THAT IN AN OFFICIAL MILITARY REPORT!
There is More evidence then you think that is OFFICIAL that is Against Bush. unlike "most" of the Word of mouth evidence that everyone seems to point to.
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"Dissent is the highest form of patriotism." President Thomas Jefferson
"A man's respect for law and order exists in precise relationship to the size of his paycheck." Adam Clayton Powell Jr.
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Leo Wyatt
Sweetest Angel
Joined: 25 Feb 2004
Posts: 19045
Location: Investigating A Crime Scene. What did Quark do this time?
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| Tue Apr 06, 2004 11:37 am |
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THat is most likely made up to make Bush look bad. I don't believe nothing off the internet cause it is all garbage and lies!!!!!
If I find something out about anything, I go to the true source and it is not the internet. People who don't like my president, will make things up.
If you believe anything off the internet you must be crazy nut like stupid Democrats.
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Los
Commodore
Joined: 07 Jun 2002
Posts: 1336
Location: Oklahoma fa sho!
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| Tue Apr 06, 2004 1:47 pm |
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Some of these are so biased.
| Quote: | | Replaced Los Angeles with Houston as the most smog ridden city in America. |
It must be Bush that is driving up and down Houston roads causing pollution and all that good stuff. Heaven forbid that the hundred thousand registered cars in Houston are less than mechanically sound.
| Quote: | | Cut taxes and bankrupted the Texas government to the tune of billions in borrowed money. |
Texas can't go bankrupt. The laws written by the constitutional convention in 1877 disallows the legislature to go over budget or under. Texas is one of the few states that ALWAYS has a balanced budget.
| Quote: | Set record for most executions by any Governor in American history.
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But Bush didn't say "Hey, execute that guy." The justice system convicted the man or woman to death. The man had nothing to do with it.
| Quote: | | Became president after losing the popular vote by over 500,000 votes, with the help of my fathers appointments to the Supreme Court. |
And if Gore would've won, then everyone would be screaming about the relevence of the Electoral College.
| Quote: | | Attacked and took over two countries. |
Don't forget that Syria, Lebanon, and Iran will be next on that list.
| Quote: | | Set all-time record for biggest drop in the history of the stock market. |
I can't believe that some of the people who really believe this actually hold important jobs... Don't they have screening for idiots?
| Quote: | | Set the all-time record for most people worldwide to simultaneously take to the streets to protest against me (15 million people), shattering the record for protest against any person in the history of mankind. |
Cry me a river. I suppose these protesters had a better idea of love and happiness with free love and lots of drugs.
| Quote: | | First president in US history to have all 50 states of the Union simultaneously go bankrupt. |
Definately his fault.
| Quote: | | Presided over the biggest corporate stock market fraud of any market in any country in the history of the world. |
OMG!!!!1 This is too easy.
To end this rant, there is just too much garbage in that writing that I won't even finish it. Bottom line, most of the people hate Bush because he's white, rich, and can't talk right.
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Monkey
Captain
Joined: 05 Feb 2004
Posts: 833
Location: On a quest you probably wouldn't believe.
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| Tue Apr 06, 2004 7:51 pm |
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He's not rich cmon $200,000 a year my da could have been making that much but he liked it where he was, so they made him a "Regional Manager" SO he does the same thing but makes the same as his bosses.
Dang this company makes no since at all,
like to get a rise you simply do the work that needs to be done you don't get promoted you just do it
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"Maybe I should get myself fired."
Millennium Actress
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Theresa
Lux Mihi Deus
Joined: 17 Jun 2001
Posts: 27256
Location: United States of America
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| Tue Apr 06, 2004 8:10 pm |
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^Thank you for opening your mouth and showing your ignorance. (literal sense of the word, tyvm) $200,000.00 a year for being president. That has nothing to do with his personal holdings. How incredibly uninformed you are.
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Theresa
Lux Mihi Deus
Joined: 17 Jun 2001
Posts: 27256
Location: United States of America
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| Tue Apr 06, 2004 8:19 pm |
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http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4271520/
Here's a link for you, Link.
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Monkey
Captain
Joined: 05 Feb 2004
Posts: 833
Location: On a quest you probably wouldn't believe.
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| Tue Apr 06, 2004 8:24 pm |
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my.. i guess i should be hurt or insulted or something.....
Nope I'm just angry oh well
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Capt.Nero
Lieutenant, Junior Grade
Joined: 06 Apr 2004
Posts: 105
Location: Canada
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| Tue Apr 06, 2004 8:25 pm |
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Theresa I may be wrong but for the US in order to be President I thought you have to be a Millionaire ALREADY BEFORE BEING ELECTED and have to be born in the States?And if not Im sure Pres.Bush was a verry well to do man before he was elected.
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Theresa
Lux Mihi Deus
Joined: 17 Jun 2001
Posts: 27256
Location: United States of America
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| Tue Apr 06, 2004 8:26 pm |
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As I said, I was using the word "ignorant" in it's literal sense. Which, if you know what that is, actually lets you off the hook for that previous comment of yours.
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Theresa
Lux Mihi Deus
Joined: 17 Jun 2001
Posts: 27256
Location: United States of America
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| Tue Apr 06, 2004 8:28 pm |
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| Capt.Nero wrote: | | Theresa I may be wrong but for the US in order to be President I thought you have to be a Millionaire ALREADY BEFORE BEING ELECTED and have to be born in the States?And if not Im sure Pres.Bush was a verry well to do man before he was elected. |
No, you don't have to be a millionaire...
And the fact that I was alluding to was that Bush already had tons of money... That's why I said that the money he gets as president has "nothing to do with his personal holdings".
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Some of us fall by the wayside
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Puck
The Texan
Joined: 05 Jan 2004
Posts: 5596
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| Tue Apr 06, 2004 8:40 pm |
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I am going to be President and I don't have millions.
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Link, the Hero of Time
Vice Admiral
Joined: 15 Sep 2001
Posts: 5581
Location: Kokori Forest, Hyrule
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| Wed Apr 07, 2004 8:00 am |
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I'm guess T that that msn story was supposed to make me go, "Oh, I was wrong." Unfortunetly, I'm a person who reads like a hawk. I can catch any detail no matter how insignificant.
| Quote: | | " It is still not clear how often Bush showed up for duty. His commanding officers don't recall seeing him, and he failed to show up for a physical to maintain his flying status. The White House insisted that since Bush was no longer flying, the exam was unnecessary, and late Friday, Bush's aides released newly located records showing that Bush did receive "points" for the time he was in Alabama. The only solid evidence that he appeared on base was the record of a dental exam." |
Also, Look at his history in the guard. Look at the gaps in the timeline. What was he doing? What hard evidence can be brought to light to defend him?
Also, here's his Chronological Listing of Service log. 
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"Dissent is the highest form of patriotism." President Thomas Jefferson
"A man's respect for law and order exists in precise relationship to the size of his paycheck." Adam Clayton Powell Jr.
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Theresa
Lux Mihi Deus
Joined: 17 Jun 2001
Posts: 27256
Location: United States of America
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| Wed Apr 07, 2004 2:31 pm |
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It wasn't supposed to make you do anything,
It showed that Bush did serve. And that he was given allowances because of his families wealth and political connections...
You really amuse me. Are you a Clinton supporter? We can make excuses for draft dodgers, but Bush gets special treatment because of his family, and you try to crucify him. Sad, really. And Kerry really has nothing to be proud of, either. He was pretending he was JFK, for crying out loud. And it's so easy for us to forget what Kerry did as soon as he was discharged, isn't it? Easy, and convenient.
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Puck
The Texan
Joined: 05 Jan 2004
Posts: 5596
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| Wed Apr 07, 2004 6:47 pm |
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Yeah, why doesn't the media shine some light on Kerry's record, I think everyone needs to take a peek at that, the stuff in it seems to be much more alarming to me than this trivial AWOL talk.
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Link, the Hero of Time
Vice Admiral
Joined: 15 Sep 2001
Posts: 5581
Location: Kokori Forest, Hyrule
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| Wed Apr 07, 2004 7:48 pm |
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Lets see, shining some light on Kerry's record, You mean the part where he went to Veitnam, Treated all his men fairly and with respect, Was wounded 3 times, and still went back, cared for his men, and when he left made sure they all got safer positions when he left.
He was IN veitnam, he saw the death and destruction. Most Vets that came home after that were against the war. It was something that we couldn't win but were trying desperatly to do. Some ways went against what people saw as right. So when he came back he tried to put those things to an end.
So shall we start the Kerry debate now, because I have all the ammo I need from Legitimate sources.
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"Dissent is the highest form of patriotism." President Thomas Jefferson
"A man's respect for law and order exists in precise relationship to the size of his paycheck." Adam Clayton Powell Jr.
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Puck
The Texan
Joined: 05 Jan 2004
Posts: 5596
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| Wed Apr 07, 2004 8:00 pm |
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Umm...lets see, he was wounded...and two out of the three times, was back on the job the next day, and yes, the other time he was barely hurt to. Also, he saw American soldiers do horrific things to POW's and did not report it. Then, after that, he comes home and throws all of his medals off the capital building (except his purple hearts of course), and rights a book, with the cover pic showing an Iwo_jima like scene, except with hippies in place of soldiers and the American Flag hung upside down. Plus he flip-flops on every issue known to man! Seems kinda worrisom to me.
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Capt.Nero
Lieutenant, Junior Grade
Joined: 06 Apr 2004
Posts: 105
Location: Canada
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| Wed Apr 07, 2004 8:03 pm |
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It may just be me but alot of those US soilders that were captured by the Viets went bizzirk and become obsessed with war.I beleive there is one powerful US senator that is a major war hawk because of his tramatic 4 year POW term with the Viets....I dont remember his name though
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"Perfectly ridiculous, unspeakable anthropocentric, hopelessly vain are those who believe that we are something special and superior in a universe of 100,000 million billion stars."
Konstantine E. Tsiolkovsky (1857-1935)
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Theresa
Lux Mihi Deus
Joined: 17 Jun 2001
Posts: 27256
Location: United States of America
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| Thu Apr 08, 2004 9:23 am |
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Good job ignoring what he did after the war, Link. Did EXACTLY what I said. Am I surprised? No.
Here's a quote from the Washington Times.
| Quote: |
.....at a veterans rally in Manchester, N.H., Mr. Kerry told the crowd that "the first definition of patriotism is keeping the faith with those who wore the uniform of our country." Yet his post-Vietnam activities as a rabid war protestor who, in testimony before Congress, accused our military serving in Vietnam of being criminals brutally oppressing the Vietnamese - a charge unsupported by facts - belie his clai of "keeping the faith" with those in uniform.
Mr. Kerry's pro-communist propoganda betrayed not only the veterans who came home humiliated amid jeers instead of cheers but, more important, the prisoners of war, those still missing in action and his fellow soliders who were still dying in the service of our country. Mr. Kerry's hypocrisy and dishonesty, especially regarding the Vietnam veterans and his claim that he did everything possible to continue searching for missing POWs, must be exposed.
It would behoove the mainstream media to send an investigative reporter to find a copy of Mr. Kerry's book "The New Soldier," the cover of which depicts some "unkempt youths crudely handling the American flag to mock the famous photo of the U.S. Marines at Iwo Jima," according to a report by Vietnam Veterans Against John Kerry.
Furthermore, the Center for Public Integrity reported that Mr. Kerry's participation in a POW/MIA committee became controversial in December, 1992, when Hanoi announced it had awarded Colliers International - a Boston-based real estate company - an exclusive deal to develop real estate, potentially worth billions. Stuart Forbes, the chief executive of Colliers, is John Forbes Kerry's cousin.... |
I typed this from an article in front of me, all errors are mine.
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Theresa
Lux Mihi Deus
Joined: 17 Jun 2001
Posts: 27256
Location: United States of America
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| Thu Apr 08, 2004 10:59 am |
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Here's some more info for you.
(written by a soldier who was in 'Nam)
| Quote: |
I was in the Delta shortly after he left. I know that area well. I know the operations he was in involved in well. I know the tactics and the doctrine used. I know the equipment. Although I was attached to at CTF-116 (PBR's) I spent a fair amount of time with the CTF-115 (swift boats), Kerry's command.
Here are my problems and suspicions:
(1) Kerry was in-country less than four months on a one year long assignement and collected, a Bronze Star, a Silver Star, and three purple hearts. I never heard of anybody with any outfit I worked with (including SEAL One, the Sea Wolves, Riverines and the River Patrol Force) collecting that much hardware so fast, and for such pedestrian actions. The Swifts did a commendable job. But that duty wasn't the worst you could draw. They operated only along the coast and in the major rivers (Bassac and Mekong). The rough stuff in the hot areas was mainly handled by the smaller, faster PBR's.
(2) Three Purple Hearts but no limp. All injuries so minor that no time was lost from duty. Amazing luck. Or he was putting himself in for medals every time he bumped his head on the wheel house hatch? Combat on the boats was almost always at close range. You didn't have minor wounds. At least not often. Not three times in a row. Then he used the three purple hearts to request a trip home eight months before the end of his tour. FISHY!
(3) The details of the event for which he was giventhe Silver Star make no sense. Supposedly, a B-40 was fired at the boat and missed. Charlie jumps up with the launcher in his hand, the bow gunner knocks him down with the twin .50, Kerry beaches the bat, jumps off, shoots Charlie, and retreives the launcher. If true, he did everything wrong.
(a) Standard procedure when you took rocket fire was to put your stern to the action and go balls to the wall. A B-40 has the ballistic integrity of a frisbie after about 25 yards, so you put 50 yards or so between you and the beach and begin raking it with your .50's
(b) Did you ever see anybody get knocked down with a .50 caliber round and get up? The guy was dead or dying. The rocket launcher was empty. There was no reason to go after him (except if you knew he was in no danger to you just flopping around in the dust during his least few seconds on earth, and you wanted some derring do in your after-action report). And we didn't shoot wounded people. We had rules against that, too.
(c) Kerry got off the boat. This was a major breach of standing procedures. Nobody on a boat crew ever got off a boat in a hot area. EVER! The reason was simple. If you had somebody on the beach your boat was defenseless. It couldn't run and it couldn't return fire. It ws stupid and it put his crew in danger. He should have been relieved and reprimanded. I never heard of any boat crewman ever leaving a boat during or after a firefight.
Something is Fishy.
Here we have a JFK wannabe (the guy Halsey wanted to court martioal for carelessly losing his boat and getting a couple people killed by running across the bow of a Jap destroyer) who is hardly in Vietnam long enough to get a good tan, collects medals faster than Audie Murphy in a job where lots of medals weren't common, gets sent home eight months early, requests seperation from active duty a few months after that so he canf run for Congress, finds out war heros don't sell well in Massachusettes in 1970 so reinvents himself as Jane Fonda, throws his ribbons in the dirt with the cameras running to jump start his political career, gets Stillborn Pell to invite him to address Congress and Bobby Kennedy's speechwriter to do the heavy lifting, winds up in the Senate himself a few years later, votes against every major defense bill, says the CIA is irrelevant after the wall came down, votes against the Gulf War, a big mistake since that turned out well, decides not to make the same mistake twice, so votes for invading Iraq, but oops, that didn't turn out so well so he now says he really didn't mean for Bush to go to war when he voted to allowe him to go to war.
I'm real glad you or I never had this guy covering our flanks in Vietnam. I know in my gut it's wildly inflated. And FISHY! |
Even guys on his own boat have turned against Kerry.
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Link, the Hero of Time
Vice Admiral
Joined: 15 Sep 2001
Posts: 5581
Location: Kokori Forest, Hyrule
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| Thu Apr 08, 2004 11:02 am |
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Uhh, Hello T? Read any veterans book, We DID Oppress the Vietnamese. Anything or anyone that moved in one of a thousand kill zones were shot on sight. American Soldiers burned down numerous Villages that had no sign of North Veitnamese soldiers in them. Our soldiers slaughtered thousdands of Innocent civilians. no one wanted to admit it though.
By the way; Go to war, a BIG one, Kill people, Get wounded 3 times and see the atrocities that happen, then try not to say some of the same things he said.
And before you say anything else, My best friends Father was in Veitnam, He told me First hand stories of some of the things that happened over there. Some of the orders they recieved go against all morality.
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"Dissent is the highest form of patriotism." President Thomas Jefferson
"A man's respect for law and order exists in precise relationship to the size of his paycheck." Adam Clayton Powell Jr.
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Theresa
Lux Mihi Deus
Joined: 17 Jun 2001
Posts: 27256
Location: United States of America
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| Thu Apr 08, 2004 11:14 am |
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Three of my uncles were there. My Grandfather and Great Uncle were in WWII. Atrocities happen in war. On BOTH sides. And we were AT WAR. With a people, who like the Palestinians, USED CHILDREN, and pregnant women to fight for them. Just like in Mogadishu. After the tenth pregnant woman exploding and taking out troops, wouldn't you be a bit leery? After going to help a child, only to find him booby trapped, or having children be armed and shooting at you. They used their civilians as soldiers, just didn't call them that. But I guess that makes it right. So if I go over to Iraq, as a civilian, and start blowing people away, and the Iraqi's shoot me, it's an atrocity, a crime against humanity... *shakes head*
You are coming from a stand point that everyone abides by the rules of war. ROE, if you will. But that is so clearly not the case.
And thanks for making it clear you didn't read the entire articles.
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Link, the Hero of Time
Vice Admiral
Joined: 15 Sep 2001
Posts: 5581
Location: Kokori Forest, Hyrule
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| Thu Apr 08, 2004 6:38 pm |
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unfortunetly, I was In the middle of typing my post when you put that up.
Half the civilians killed by our soldiers in Vietnam were just that Civilians. They no ties to North Veitnam, and did not want to get involved in any fighting.
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"Dissent is the highest form of patriotism." President Thomas Jefferson
"A man's respect for law and order exists in precise relationship to the size of his paycheck." Adam Clayton Powell Jr.
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Capt.Nero
Lieutenant, Junior Grade
Joined: 06 Apr 2004
Posts: 105
Location: Canada
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| Thu Apr 08, 2004 6:43 pm |
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Why did the Americans even go in there for.There excuse was to prevent Communism from spreading throughout the world.Well obvoiusly the Americans failed at preventing communism in Vietnam.
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"Perfectly ridiculous, unspeakable anthropocentric, hopelessly vain are those who believe that we are something special and superior in a universe of 100,000 million billion stars."
Konstantine E. Tsiolkovsky (1857-1935)
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