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Puck
The Texan
Joined: 05 Jan 2004
Posts: 5596
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 Fri Apr 02, 2004 8:38 am |
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| Republican_Man wrote: | | Hmmm...I agree with that. What do you think about the gay actions? |
Ok...here is how I feel about gay marriage. First of all, the marriage certifcate that you receive that the government means not much to me, receiving the Sacrament of Holy Matramony does. So in the government light, yes, I beleive those who are gay should be allowed to marry. It is not violating anyone elses right or hurting anyone around them, therefore who is the government to stop them. However, it is against my faith to live a homosexual lifestyle, but my faith will not give the Sacrament of Holy Matramony to gays, so I do not have to worry about that issue. It is also inappropriate to condemn any person, so I have tryed really hard not to make it sound like I am in any of my posts because I do not.
However, on the issue of gay couples adopting children, well that seems to be a more important issue than marriage.
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Puck
The Texan
Joined: 05 Jan 2004
Posts: 5596
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| Fri Apr 02, 2004 8:40 am |
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I am sorry Republican_Man....I am sure your not happy with your fellow Republican......but right now, it seems that the democrats have the correct take on this, it just honestly seems to me that the Republican arguments are kinda...i dont know...desperate.
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jbering69
Lieutenant
Joined: 09 Mar 2004
Posts: 137
Location: Canada
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| Fri Apr 02, 2004 10:46 am |
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Republicanman's response about the 'triad' as being wrong also betrays his ethnocentric perspective. Many nations allow polygamous relationships provided the man can provide for his wives. Apparently he is one of 'those' people who believe 'my religion is the right one, yours is wrong.......infidel'. Allowing same sex marriage is not the same as openning the door to other special interest groups, ie. pedophiles. The same sex union is between two adults of consenting age, not pedophilia. Your remarks about using the Old Testament as a teacher, show that you would support the statements the started this thread. Even if you don't agree with them the Bible clearly states that you can neither add nor detract from the Bible.....it is the written truth. Perhaps what is most amusing about this thread is that it is on a STAR TREK forum. The Federation is a strong proponent of equal rights for everyone, which would include homosexuals. Think about it.
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jbering69
Lieutenant
Joined: 09 Mar 2004
Posts: 137
Location: Canada
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| Fri Apr 02, 2004 10:58 am |
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The quoting that it was homosexuality that destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah is wrong. S and G were destroyed because they practiced the sin of inhospitality. Using Biblical parables to reinforce arguments is difficult. It was in the story of S and G that after the men - folk were to be assaulted by the people of S and G that they offered up their women in exchange. Cowards. Instead of basing one's arguments against gay marriages solely on religious preferences, why don't you try to base them on their socio - economic impact? By the way republicanman I enjoy your posts as they stir up a little friendly controversy, keep up the good work.
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Leo Wyatt
Sweetest Angel
Joined: 25 Feb 2004
Posts: 19045
Location: Investigating A Crime Scene. What did Quark do this time?
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| Fri Apr 02, 2004 11:14 am |
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For your info it is true about Sodom Gommarah you must can not read!
I have not been a christian all these years to have my beliefs in doubt.
And u know the bible? Cause most of you people has not receive Jesus into your heary therefore you are blind cause you are in sin. You can not see what God laid out for you to see.
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Seven of Nine
Sammie's Mammy
Joined: 16 Jun 2001
Posts: 7871
Location: North East England
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| Fri Apr 02, 2004 11:24 am |
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"May he who is without sin cast the first stone" John 8:7.
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Natira
The Cute One
Joined: 15 Jul 2001
Posts: 5407
Location: Wrapped around Bella's little finger!
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| Fri Apr 02, 2004 11:33 am |
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(This is T)
You can't use single lines out of the Bible to support w/e you feel you want to. You either believe it, or you don't. That, too, makes you a hypocrite. Thinking you can use something that you've said prior that you don't really believe in to try and support yourself.
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DemonClassY
Commodore
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 1986
Location: Pittsburgh, PA, U.S.A
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| Fri Apr 02, 2004 4:49 pm |
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^are you talking to me???
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First city to bring home the Lombardi Trophy and Lord Stanley in the same season!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! GO PENS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Puck
The Texan
Joined: 05 Jan 2004
Posts: 5596
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| Fri Apr 02, 2004 6:15 pm |
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| Natira wrote: | (This is T)
You can't use single lines out of the Bible to support w/e you feel you want to. You either believe it, or you don't. That, too, makes you a hypocrite. Thinking you can use something that you've said prior that you don't really believe in to try and support yourself. |
Thank goodness you said that...you can find almost anything in the bible, and pull it out, then use it so that it fits your purpose.........
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imzadi76
Commander
Joined: 15 Jan 2004
Posts: 367
Location: Pittsburgh - PA - USA - Earth - Sector001 - Alpha Quadrant
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| Fri Apr 02, 2004 6:15 pm |
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Everybody's quoting the old testament, but I get the feeling that not too many people have actually read it.
There are many, many instances in the old testament where behaviors are perscribed that seem completely asinine to the modern reader. My favorite example is the treatment of women. You know it actually says the a man is not to touch a woman during her period and for a week after. Men aren't even supposed to use the same chair as a menstrating woman did for a week after her cycle.
Furthermore, the old testament is irrelevant - Jesus said so. The word of God is "written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts" (2 Cor. 3: 1-3).
Moving to the New Testament we read, "Therefore God gave them over in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, that their bodies might be dishonored among them. For they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshipped and served the creature rather than the creator, who is blessed forever. For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, and in the same way the men abondened the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and recieving in their persons the due penalty of their error." (Romans1:24-27)
Does this message speak to our current time, could the due peanalty in fact be AIDS? An interesting verse to say the least.
OK- enough quoting and ranting - let me sign off by saying that it is not our place to judge the actions of others. The golden rule must always apply- treat others as you would have yourself be treated - which, I believe, is the central message of christianity. Jesus died to give that message to humanity, and christians that don't follow this teaching are, to say the least, ignorent. Damned is probably more appropriate.
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Puck
The Texan
Joined: 05 Jan 2004
Posts: 5596
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| Fri Apr 02, 2004 6:21 pm |
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Ok, you say that it is not our place to judge....then you say those who do not follow the teachings of Christ are damned. Sounds like you are making a judgement on ALOT of other people. You must be really in touch with the Lord to tell which of us are damned and which of us are "saved" (I find how protestants use this term extremly funny). To me that seems to make you sound pretty high and mighty.
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imzadi76
Commander
Joined: 15 Jan 2004
Posts: 367
Location: Pittsburgh - PA - USA - Earth - Sector001 - Alpha Quadrant
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| Fri Apr 02, 2004 6:35 pm |
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No, I think you should reread what I wrote.
I was referring to supposed 'christians' that point the finger and judge others. The spanish inquisition is over.
Please don't try to start arguements in a vaccum.
Last edited by imzadi76 on Fri Apr 02, 2004 6:54 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Puck
The Texan
Joined: 05 Jan 2004
Posts: 5596
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| Fri Apr 02, 2004 6:38 pm |
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um...ok, I will take your word for that one...still sounds like you are being hypocryticle to me but if you say so.
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imzadi76
Commander
Joined: 15 Jan 2004
Posts: 367
Location: Pittsburgh - PA - USA - Earth - Sector001 - Alpha Quadrant
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| Fri Apr 02, 2004 6:41 pm |
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I don't see how you can make that accusation.
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Puck
The Texan
Joined: 05 Jan 2004
Posts: 5596
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| Fri Apr 02, 2004 6:43 pm |
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I am not making an accusation...I guess its just the way its worded or I read it, the last pargraph just sounds hypocryticle.....thats just how it sounds to me...no accusation made.
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imzadi76
Commander
Joined: 15 Jan 2004
Posts: 367
Location: Pittsburgh - PA - USA - Earth - Sector001 - Alpha Quadrant
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| Fri Apr 02, 2004 6:52 pm |
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How is me saying that you should treat everyone as you'd like to be treated hypocritical? ('Cause that's what I'm doing) If the damned comment at the end made you feel uncomfortible, I'm sorry if I struck a nerve. You weren't my intended target. That dig was there to get under the skin of intolent people that use religion as a shield for their actions.
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Puck
The Texan
Joined: 05 Jan 2004
Posts: 5596
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| Fri Apr 02, 2004 6:56 pm |
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Ok here is what I saw that made me feel like it was hypocryticle...
| Quote: | | OK- enough quoting and ranting - let me sign off by saying that it is not our place to judge the actions of others.... |
| Quote: | | ....and christians that don't follow this teaching are, to say the least, ignorent. Damned is probably more appropriate. |
To me....you may not have meant it like this...but to me....this sounds like you are judging other in saying those who dont follow the teachings of Jesus are ignorant...and probably damned. I am sorry if I misunderstood this or anything.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Fri Apr 02, 2004 10:20 pm |
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| jbering69 wrote: | | Republicanman's response about the 'triad' as being wrong also betrays his ethnocentric perspective. Many nations allow polygamous relationships provided the man can provide for his wives. Apparently he is one of 'those' people who believe 'my religion is the right one, yours is wrong.......infidel'. Allowing same sex marriage is not the same as openning the door to other special interest groups, ie. pedophiles. The same sex union is between two adults of consenting age, not pedophilia. Your remarks about using the Old Testament as a teacher, show that you would support the statements the started this thread. Even if you don't agree with them the Bible clearly states that you can neither add nor detract from the Bible.....it is the written truth. Perhaps what is most amusing about this thread is that it is on a STAR TREK forum. The Federation is a strong proponent of equal rights for everyone, which would include homosexuals. Think about it. |
First off, I don't think that my religion is the best one, and I am NOT one of "those" people as you called me. NO RELIGION WHATSOEVER IS BETTER THAN ANY OTHER! I am just pretty strong in my faith. Please, I would NEVER say that. And yet I believe that if it IS written in the Bible, then it is the "written truth." Therefore I will follow it whole-heartedly.
However, I believe that in American society we cannot have Triads, Gay Unions (marriages) ect, but I am NOT saying that other countries can't. I believe in the way marriage is NOW in AMERICA (the US)
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Fri Apr 02, 2004 10:29 pm |
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| JanewayIsHott wrote: | Ok here is what I saw that made me feel like it was hypocryticle...
| Quote: | | OK- enough quoting and ranting - let me sign off by saying that it is not our place to judge the actions of others.... |
| Quote: | | ....and christians that don't follow this teaching are, to say the least, ignorent. Damned is probably more appropriate. |
To me....you may not have meant it like this...but to me....this sounds like you are judging other in saying those who dont follow the teachings of Jesus are ignorant...and probably damned. I am sorry if I misunderstood this or anything. |
I just so happen to see that as well. YOU, Imzadi, are unfortunately judging me, for instance, due to MY actions...Well, that's what Janeway thinks.
And if the Old Testement IS irrelevent, then why don't we get rid of it?
It may have been said,
| Quote: | | The word of God is "written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts" (2 Cor. 3: 1-3). |
but THAT, in my opinion, doesn't DENY the Old Testement. Well, then if one were to interperet that in a different way, the NEW Testement could be irrelevant. An absured comment? I don't think so.
And why am I a "supposed Christian," may I ask? Personally, I take that as one of the greatest insults that I have had on these forums and perhaps in life period in about 2 months.[/quote]
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Monkey
Captain
Joined: 05 Feb 2004
Posts: 833
Location: On a quest you probably wouldn't believe.
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| Fri Apr 02, 2004 10:57 pm |
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why is everyone acting like they know so much about the Bible?
Have any of you even read the whole thing?
I have
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"Maybe I should get myself fired."
Millennium Actress
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Theresa
Lux Mihi Deus
Joined: 17 Jun 2001
Posts: 27256
Location: United States of America
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| Sat Apr 03, 2004 12:14 am |
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Yeah, I have, and had to memorize quite a lot of it, too. Also studied it.
| imzadi76 wrote: | | Furthermore, the old testament is irrelevant - Jesus said so. The word of God is "written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts" (2 Cor. 3: 1-3). |
Oh please. Did you even read what I said? Jesus came to fulfill the law of the prophets, not to nullify it,  And if we took what you said as truth, then the ten commandments are kaput, too.
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Some of us fall by the wayside
And some of us soar to the stars
And some of us sail through our troubles
And some have to live with our scars
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Sat Apr 03, 2004 12:18 am |
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| Quote: | | And if we took what you said as truth, then the ten commandments are kaput, too. |
Ooooh! This is true. Now, was God WRONG to talk to Moses now that Jesus was here? Do God's 10 Commandments mean NOTHING? I think not.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Puck
The Texan
Joined: 05 Jan 2004
Posts: 5596
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| Sat Apr 03, 2004 12:18 am |
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Ok everyone, stop all the crap. The most basic teaching...that pretty much covers everything is that of which we should live our lives as an imitation of Christs life.
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Theresa
Lux Mihi Deus
Joined: 17 Jun 2001
Posts: 27256
Location: United States of America
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| Sat Apr 03, 2004 12:23 am |
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^What crap? It's a discussion...
| Quote: | Matthew 5:18
For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
(Whole Chapter: Matthew 5 In context: Matthew 5:17-19)
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| Quote: | Luke 24:44
And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.
(Whole Chapter: Luke 24 In context: Luke 24:43-45)
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Some of us fall by the wayside
And some of us soar to the stars
And some of us sail through our troubles
And some have to live with our scars
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Puck
The Texan
Joined: 05 Jan 2004
Posts: 5596
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| Sat Apr 03, 2004 12:28 am |
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^sorry i guess Im kinda tired, yall were just talkin about what teachings to follow and stuff and about the bible I was just sayin that this is the most basic and important thing to remember...to me at least.
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