Secularism

Theresa · **Sun Mar 28, 2004 2:12 pm**

It's out of control. Homosexuals can be themselves in public, etc..., but Christians can't? Tell me how that is fair. Equality. What a word. I love how people try to change the definition to fit what they want.

Pah-Wraith · **Sun Mar 28, 2004 2:38 pm**

Yeah I disagree with Secularism, and would say it's going a bit too far these days.

Although I disagree that Secularism targets Christianity more than it Targets other Religions

Theresa · **Sun Mar 28, 2004 2:43 pm**

In some US schools, you can't wear a cross, or a t-shirt that says anything about God. But you can wear a burqua (sp), or a fez, etc... Both are also symbols of religion. Maybe not overseas is it not only Christianity targeted, but in the US, it sure is. Been the most consistantly persecuted, anyway.

Pah-Wraith · **Sun Mar 28, 2004 3:02 pm**

Arellia · **Sun Mar 28, 2004 3:27 pm**

I definitely think that Secularism is going too far, and should be stopped. Religion is a major part of society, and no religions (Well, at least...provided you're not directly hurting anyone by practicing it) should be suppressed. I don't think that Christianity is targetted much more than other religions, I think most all of them are pretty well cornered at one time or another...though, I live in the US, and I've never attended a school where anything (Crosses, Burkas, Crucifixes, religious t-shirts, etc.) were kept out of the school, but maybe I was just lucky... Even though you could wear symbols of religion, though, I had gotten in trouble a number of times for reading the bible during 'Free Reading' time, so that was certainly an interesting little hypocritical rule...

Puck · The Texan Joined: 05 Jan 2004 Posts: 5596

yay! We all agree on something for once!

Sam Kenobi · **Sun Mar 28, 2004 4:30 pm**

Well, ok... for the other side of the spectrum, I don't think it's going to far. But maybe thats because of the community I live in, I've never really been exposed to it that much. Most of my community is Christian... but secularism doesn't effect us that much. We're allowed to wear crosses etc, and I think other religions are free to wear what they need to. We can have prayer meetings at school. Though my little brother did have some trouble starting a lunch bible study last yearm, but he got around it.

I just don't think your personal religion has to be that public, Living a Christian way of life should be more of a personal thing... that is, you're not always supposed to be preaching to some huge group of people. It's a person to person thing more... like you treat others as you would like to be treated. you don't have to publicize anything about it. The bible says something about the man preaching on a corner is a fool... I don't know.

But like I said, I've never really been exposed to it, so thats why my opinion differs

And I think what Dappy meant by arguing over imaginary friends was that. we don't know what eachothers religions are like really... because they're personal. so it doesn't make sense to argue over them

Republican_Man · **Sun Mar 28, 2004 5:58 pm**

Secularism hasn't quite affected my community, but I see how it is by watching FOX NEWS' O'Reilly Factor news show.
In other countries, like France, Christianity ISN'T the Prime target, but in the US it is...
Look at the ACLU...
Kids in my school read the bible all the time during "Reading Class," so...

Republican_Man · **Sun Mar 28, 2004 6:19 pm**

IntrepidIsMe · **Sun Mar 28, 2004 9:30 pm**

What part of her post "isn't fair"?

Republican_Man · **Sun Mar 28, 2004 10:08 pm**

I meant that what Theresa says is not fair isn't fair. That is, I agreed with her. Sorry if I didn't make that clear.

Captain Dappet · **Mon Mar 29, 2004 9:11 am**

I only just noticed this topic, and I feel that I must reply.

Well, it is simply a stating of my opinion, because of my very atheist nature.
I let people believe in Religion if they want to, my own personal beliefs about religion should perhaps not be said here, as they will probably be offensive to many people.

In my signature, I am saying that fighting over Religion is just crazy. Believing in Religion is okay, in fact, sometimes I envy those who can believe in Religion. I seem to have lost my faith somewhere...

Sam Kenobi · **Mon Mar 29, 2004 3:05 pm**

And if we're on the topic of secularism, why are we religiouses allowed to post our opinions, but Dappy gets in trouble for his? *touch of sarcasm*

Jeremy · **Mon Mar 29, 2004 3:42 pm**

"Ask some non-religious liberal friends how they would describe a person who attended only fundamentalist Christian or ultra-Orthodox Jewish schools from preschool through graduate school. "Brainwashed" and "closed-minded" would be their most likely answers, and they would often be right. Most people assume that any person who is exposed to only one way of looking at the world for all of his or her life can hardly be regarded as open-minded.

Now ask those same individuals how they would describe a person who attended only secular schools from preschool through graduate school.

Your friends would probably look at you with incomprehension. What kind of question is that? After all, they and the great majority of people in our country attended secular schools, and they consider themselves perfectly normal and open-minded.

"Brainwashed"? "Closed-minded"? Such terms cannot possibly be applied to the secular or the "progressive," only to the religious and conservative.

But, of course, such a response is logically untenable. If a person is to be considered brainwashed for having only received a religious education, a person who has received only a secular or liberal (as in politically liberal) education should be regarded identically.

In fact, when secular people and those on the Left deny this, it actually illustrates that they probably have been brainwashed. The secular/Left immersion they underwent has been so effective that it has rendered them incapable of realizing that they have been so immersed.

This is one reason it has become more and more apparent that the most closed-minded people in American and European society today are not the religious but the secular, not the Right but the Left. The majority of even fundamentalist Christians and Orthodox Jews are exposed to far more secular thought and behavior than the secular are exposed to religious thought and behavior. Virtually all religious Christians and Jews study secular subjects, have been taught by secular teachers, read secular books, and watch secular films and secular television. Virtually no secular people have studied religious subjects, been taught by religious teachers, or read religious books, let alone watched religious films or television, neither of which exists in any number.

The same holds true for liberals and conservatives. Virtually every conservative reads a liberal newspaper, watches liberal newscasts, reads liberal magazines, and has been taught in liberal schools by liberal professors. Few liberals have read a conservative newspaper (there are almost none anyway), read a conservative magazine, studied in conservative schools or been taught by a conservative professor (of whom there are also almost none).

So who exactly is more likely to be provincial and ignorant of other ways of thinking? The question is rhetorical. That is why the late distinguished University of Chicago professor Allan Bloom wrote his best-selling "The Closing of the American Mind," not about religious or conservative America but about secular liberal America as embodied in its temple, the university.

That also helps explain why the secular Left (not yet a redundant phrase, but getting there) so often hurls epithets -- "racist" (for opposing affirmative action), "homophobe" (for opposing the redefinition of marriage), "sexist" (for opposing medically unnecessary abortions) -- instead of offering reasoned responses.

As befits a person who has almost never been exposed to opposing ways of thinking, sustained argument is not possible.

Just as many liberals and secularists can only imagine a religious person being brainwashed, not a liberal or a secular one, they likewise can only imagine religious extremism, never secular extremism. One can easily be too religious, but never too secular. Yet, we have far more secular extremism than religious extremism in our society.

The ACLU is one such example. The organization recently threatened to sue the National Park Service over two little plaques at the Grand Canyon that had Psalms written on them. That most Americans do not consider a lawsuit over something so trivial a manifestation of extremism only proves how effective the secular brainwash is."
I would agree with this.
http://www.townhall.com/columnists/dennisprager/dp20040323.shtml

Theresa · **Mon Mar 29, 2004 3:43 pm**

Did anyone say he was in trouble? I don't see that. It's a discussion.

Sam Kenobi · **Mon Mar 29, 2004 3:51 pm**

Ok, maybe he's not in trouble, but Rep man did politely say "there's no need to say that". So then what gives us the right to talk about our religion? Seriously, I'm not being sarcastic now, if Dappy has "no need to say that" then why do we have the need? Our beliefs offend some people just as much as theirs offend us.

^^I don't know... I was raised Presbyterian all my life and I was never taught to discriminate against other religions. I've always been taught to accept them. One part of this ^ article says that most fundamentalist Christians have been taught to be secularist, but I don't think thats true. Its exactly what a book I have called "Uprooting Racism" says about how Christians are taught to be toward jews, but I don't think its true. I think a lot of people who are oppressed because of their religion are too stuck in the ways of how they're being persucuted to actually go out of their way to actually see what it's like on the other side.

OK, sorry, ^ mine is just an opinion, I wasn't attempting to think logically or "smartly" so don't say I don't know what I'm talking about. Its just an opinion. LIke I said before, I don't know if I've been exposed to enough to know the "ways of the world"

Theresa · **Mon Mar 29, 2004 4:23 pm**

IntrepidIsMe · **Mon Mar 29, 2004 4:26 pm**

Theresa · **Mon Mar 29, 2004 4:30 pm**

It so does too, you little snot. *KICK*

Republican_Man · **Mon Mar 29, 2004 5:15 pm**

ILoveHarry · Admiral Joined: 14 Jan 2004 Posts: 7909 Location: Houston

Hmm... this could be heavy! I'm not trying to start anything, really I'm not! But... If, and I say IF Dappy's siggy is an insult, so are many others!!!!! For instance... Rep man's says that liberals are annoying. I'm a liberal. I don't think we are annoying, just opoen minded... Personaly his siggy in no way insults me... I have a thick skin.

However... if we are being technical...

Just raising a point. Heck, for that matter, mine could be taken as an insult as well, so I won't use it.

Republican_Man · **Mon Mar 29, 2004 10:04 pm**

I'm a bit confused, Harry.
However, I'm just saying that because every day I am confronted by Liberals who constantly annoy and yell at me and AREN'T very open-minded. I am MUCH more open-minded than they are. Plus there are so many that DO annoy me when I watch them from the TV.
That is stereotypical, however, and that does not mean that YOU are annoying, and I appologize. However, I will keep it up, unless someone starts cussing me out...I hope you see my reasons at least somewhat...No harm intended.
However, I would NEVER do anything to attack a religion or people who don't believe in one--just the Secularists who want it out of public life.
My quarrel with that "is like fighting over whose imaginary friend is better" comment is because I feel that it insults my religious beliefs, and yes I may insult one's political beliefs (no offense) but I will NEVER insult another religion or an athiest because that is something usually more personal...Do you see where I'm going?

Republican_Man · **Mon Mar 29, 2004 10:53 pm**

Although I think that my "Liberals annoy me" comment is ridiculous to take insult to, I am one of the many Compassionate Conservatives in the country, see?
I changed my signature (not because of the Liberals, well, partially...I just wanted to show how compassionate I can get, like President Bush.

Captain Dappet · **Tue Mar 30, 2004 12:27 pm**