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LightningBoy
Commodore
Joined: 09 Mar 2003
Posts: 1446
Location: Minnesota, U.S.A.
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 Mon Jun 23, 2003 11:26 pm Affirmative Action |
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This is a touchy subject for many, so try to take it easy and be open minded when arguing this.
What do you think of Affirmative action in general? Today's supreme court ruling about the U of MI was a compromise between the sides. What's your take?
I think Affirmative Action is all together unconstitutional. "All men are created equal" according to the U.S. constitution, to treat a person differently than another, simply because of race, goes against everything that line states.
Affirmative action is a fancy name for reverse discrimination. That's my take.
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Los
Commodore
Joined: 07 Jun 2002
Posts: 1336
Location: Oklahoma fa sho!
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| Tue Jun 24, 2003 12:23 am |
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I think its *beep*. And I'm nothing but a minority.
It blows my mind to think that people need an extra hand in getting them into colleges and universities because they chose to do *beep* in school. Now, mind you, I've never excelled at anything in high school except choral and science classes but with so much to learn and do, how hard is it to find a niche' and pursuing it? It appalls me to think that so many young americans cite affirmative action because they feel that they've worked hard enough to get somewhere. But hell, what about the white kid who's been busting his ass since day one to get into Oberlin but get rejected because they took in a less qualified (though not always the case) student who happened to be asian? That's filling a quota and no matter how you describe it, its a *beep* quota.
*end rant*
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Qgirl
Captain
Joined: 08 Jun 2003
Posts: 554
Location: Florida
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| Tue Jun 24, 2003 10:11 pm |
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But that's not what it's about.!
It's so minorities wont be denied jobs or housing (etc), based on their race. It was to help them not be denied a chance at adecent life, just because people don't like the way they look.
It's helping minorities get jobs. This was needed back( a lot) when segregation was just ending. Today ( not so much) it is still a problem in some places. The only time it is a problem is when, there are 2 people one a minority and one not who are both equally qualified for the job. Because then the manager (?) might pick the minority.
-------signature-------
"This is kind of the neat thing about Florida," "You never know what will
show up in your yard - like hundreds of frogs."
Jane's the way
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LightningBoy
Commodore
Joined: 09 Mar 2003
Posts: 1446
Location: Minnesota, U.S.A.
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| Tue Jun 24, 2003 10:35 pm |
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Why do they need help? Are minorities handicapped? No.
Segragation is non-existant anymore. The only people who are seriously racist anymore are hard-core KKKers, who are, themselves, shanti dwelling uni-bombers.
In all actuality, there is no reason to give anyone a leg up because of their race. That is discrimination, that it unconstitutional, that is rediculous.
People who are pro-affirmative action are no better than Strom Thurman and his segragationist friends from the '40s.
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Qgirl
Captain
Joined: 08 Jun 2003
Posts: 554
Location: Florida
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| Tue Jun 24, 2003 10:58 pm |
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That is not true. 
Descrimination may not be as big as it was, but it is still present.
Most people who live in slums are minorites, and if you born in a slum you can not help what got you there. Those people are descriminated on as being beggers, hodlums, people who mooch off of the welfare system. This affirmative action can help them get a job, so YOU don't have to pay (in taxes) for the little food they would otherwise get through welfare.
Yes Affirmative action can be looked on as descrimination to none minorities, but a lot of the time it is well needed.
Some people I'm sure have gained unneedingly with this, but others otherwise would be doomed.
-------signature-------
"This is kind of the neat thing about Florida," "You never know what will
show up in your yard - like hundreds of frogs."
Jane's the way
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Theresa
Lux Mihi Deus
Joined: 17 Jun 2001
Posts: 27256
Location: United States of America
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| Tue Jun 24, 2003 11:17 pm |
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But minority should not be defined by race or sex then. The white male is quickly becoming a minority here in the US.
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LightningBoy
Commodore
Joined: 09 Mar 2003
Posts: 1446
Location: Minnesota, U.S.A.
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| Tue Jun 24, 2003 11:39 pm |
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| Qgirl wrote: | That is not true.
Descrimination may not be as big as it was, but it is still present.
Most people who live in slums are minorites, and if you born in a slum you can not help what got you there. Those people are descriminated on as being beggers, hodlums, people who mooch off of the welfare system. This affirmative action can help them get a job, so YOU don't have to pay (in taxes) for the little food they would otherwise get through welfare.
Yes Affirmative action can be looked on as descrimination to none minorities, but a lot of the time it is well needed.
Some people I'm sure have gained unneedingly with this, but others otherwise would be doomed. |
It does'nt matter where you start out. If YOU work hard enough YOU can do anything you set your mind to. There shoudl be no legs up. Everyone faces life equally, some people just have to overcome different obsticles than others.
Making it through school has nothing to do with money, grades are determined by persistence. If someone does'nt persist, it is not fault of their race/financial standing/or place of birth. Grades will get you into colledge, and if the poor want scholorships from the government, so be it, but they should'nt get free extra leg up on qualification.
Affirmative action is rediculous.
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Los
Commodore
Joined: 07 Jun 2002
Posts: 1336
Location: Oklahoma fa sho!
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| Tue Jun 24, 2003 11:46 pm |
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| Qgirl wrote: | But that's not what it's about.!
It's so minorities wont be denied jobs or housing (etc), based on their race. It was to help them not be denied a chance at adecent life, just because people don't like the way they look.
It's helping minorities get jobs. This was needed back( a lot) when segregation was just ending. Today ( not so much) it is still a problem in some places. The only time it is a problem is when, there are 2 people one a minority and one not who are both equally qualified for the job. Because then the manager (?) might pick the minority. |
What minority group need jobs outside of illegal immigrants? Those parents who provide for their children always want nothing but the best. But its not the community nor the government's fault when one man takes it out on someone of a different class and race. If you want to talk about poor people gettings jobs, talk about class. That has nothing to do with minorities.
The biggest issue with Affirmative action is with the schools and education. Because education is so key to getting ahead in life, many parents will dump literally thousands of dollars into the kid's education. What they do with that education afterwards, is their own business. But, in that same token, when they apply to graduate school or any school or work, they should, and alot of places do, score by their merits in college and the extracirricular.
I'm not saying that there aren't places that don't do that; I've grown up a bit since my naive days two years ago but get real. Companies and businesses are getting faster and faster paced. Its a well known fact that asians have, apparently, a higher mathematical ability, while whites are the vast majority, are willing to swap spots with people to get ahead and make more money, for themselves, and the company.
In this day and age, I fail to see how:
1. Blacks are being treated unfairly by whites or other groups of people.
2. Why we still have an illegal immigration problem.
3. Why the INS is still backed up.
4. Why some groups of people can automatically get asylum if they touch American soil while another group cannot and will not.
5. Why Christianity gets attacked constantly. I don't see any Islamic bashing and its really annoying.
6. Why asians feel that they're superior to everyone else (See Japanese business info)
The more you know and study Americans, you realize that America wasn't built on the backbones of slaves and immigrants. Though, as cruel and degrading this might sound, it was the fact that people had initiative to make the labor possible to make America the way it is.
I won't sit here and agree with slavery. Its obviously wrong and the biblical justification that the US used in the seventeen and eighteen hundreds was unfounded but be realistic; if America didn't suffer through its self made strife, our pride would be a lot different and we might not have the society we have today.
Most of the world is based of American economics and limited foresight. But it saddens me to see that we can be so easily ready to believe that one man has been wronged when infact, it was the other man that was wronged in the first place.
Affirmative action only isolates the white man or rather better qualified man more. If I were to apply for a position in management at Ford and lose it to a guy (white, black, whatever) that was better qualified than I was, great! That means I have that much more to look forward to, whether studying or otherwise. Just because I lose an opportunity to work at a great company doesn't mean that they're being biased or racially motivated to meet a quota. Its life. There are and always will be people that are better than you in some aspects of life.
/end rant
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Seven of Nine
Sammie's Mammy
Joined: 16 Jun 2001
Posts: 7871
Location: North East England
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| Wed Jun 25, 2003 11:03 am |
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I'd just like to point something out. I've been a victim of positive descrimination.
I have a German surname, so some girls were calling me names because of it in school. I couldn't retaliate in anyway, because if I did so I was being racist. Why? Because they were Asian. Just because they have darker skin then I do doesn't mean they can't be racist, or nasty, or bullies, but apparently that's what most schools think. If I complained I was being racist, even though I don't even see colour when it comes to who I like or not. In fact, I'm jealous of the hair my friends had. It was lovely and black and shiny, just what I'd love! Mine's reddish-brown, dull and tatty!
Just a funny thing to end with. I was in nursery (age of 3) and I told my mum I liked a boy in my class but I couldn't marry him because he was black. My mum was shocked, and after lecturing me, asked me why. I told her it was because I thought my children would turn out striped!
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Los
Commodore
Joined: 07 Jun 2002
Posts: 1336
Location: Oklahoma fa sho!
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| Wed Jun 25, 2003 12:22 pm |
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| Seven of Nine wrote: |
I have a German surname, so some girls were calling me names because of it in school. I couldn't retaliate in anyway, because if I did so I was being racist. Why? Because they were Asian. Just because they have darker skin then I do doesn't mean they can't be racist, or nasty, or bullies, but apparently that's what most schools think. If I complained I was being racist, even though I don't even see colour when it comes to who I like or not. |
There is nothing wrong with defending yourself. But if you use racist remarks, that's on you.
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Pah-Wraith
Sheikh
Joined: 30 Nov 2001
Posts: 6012
Location: Londonistan.
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| Wed Jun 25, 2003 12:31 pm |
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I'm Now In Lower Sixth Form, I'm not proud of it, but when I was in Year 10 me and a few other Multi-Cultured or Ethnic Kids you might say, well we went around being Vigilantes and Threatening or Beating Kids who made Racist Remarks. I gave that up Last Year when I realised Vilence Doesn't solve anything 
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Qgirl
Captain
Joined: 08 Jun 2003
Posts: 554
Location: Florida
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| Wed Jun 25, 2003 8:33 pm |
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| Seven of Nine wrote: | I'd just like to point something out. I've been a victim of positive descrimination.
I have a German surname, so some girls were calling me names because of it in school. I couldn't retaliate in anyway, because if I did so I was being racist. Why? Because they were Asian. Just because they have darker skin then I do doesn't mean they can't be racist, or nasty, or bullies, but apparently that's what most schools think. If I complained I was being racist, even though I don't even see colour when it comes to who I like or not. |
I had a friend who had a similiar experience.
She was talking to a friend, when a black girl started going off at her, because she thought she was looking at her weird, or something. And she was being all rude and said stuff I wont repeat. This happened several times. This girl kept on tring to make my friend fight her. And my friend said, "I'm not going to let you get me suspended on my last day of school" (she was a senior) and did nothing.
-------signature-------
"This is kind of the neat thing about Florida," "You never know what will
show up in your yard - like hundreds of frogs."
Jane's the way
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Los
Commodore
Joined: 07 Jun 2002
Posts: 1336
Location: Oklahoma fa sho!
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| Thu Jun 26, 2003 12:55 am |
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That is a problem with some groups where they feel that they are being threatened by someone or a group of people that are their peers, in general.
In retrospect we have come a long ways from the days of the civil unrest of the 60s but even 40 years later, we still see signs of contempt and prejudism... from all sides of the ball now.
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harrykims#1fan
Fan Girl Muskateer
Joined: 08 Feb 2002
Posts: 2916
Location: Leicester UK
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| Fri Jun 27, 2003 10:03 am |
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I've just finished my GCSE's and when i started year 10 i found there was a lot of racism at my school but it wasnt white on Asian it was the asians on the whites...i'm no racist but the teachers did nothing bout it
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Seven of Nine
Sammie's Mammy
Joined: 16 Jun 2001
Posts: 7871
Location: North East England
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| Fri Jun 27, 2003 6:54 pm |
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| Los wrote: | | Seven of Nine wrote: |
I have a German surname, so some girls were calling me names because of it in school. I couldn't retaliate in anyway, because if I did so I was being racist. Why? Because they were Asian. Just because they have darker skin then I do doesn't mean they can't be racist, or nasty, or bullies, but apparently that's what most schools think. If I complained I was being racist, even though I don't even see colour when it comes to who I like or not. |
There is nothing wrong with defending yourself. But if you use racist remarks, that's on you. |
What's racist about not liking someone? And all I ever really said was something like "get lost". They were beating up my little sister too, until I cornered the ringleader by herself. Being 6 foot can be useful sometimes, even though I didn't do anything apart from tell her to leave my sister alone.
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Los
Commodore
Joined: 07 Jun 2002
Posts: 1336
Location: Oklahoma fa sho!
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| Sat Jun 28, 2003 3:35 am |
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| Seven of Nine wrote: | | Los wrote: | | Seven of Nine wrote: |
I have a German surname, so some girls were calling me names because of it in school. I couldn't retaliate in anyway, because if I did so I was being racist. Why? Because they were Asian. Just because they have darker skin then I do doesn't mean they can't be racist, or nasty, or bullies, but apparently that's what most schools think. If I complained I was being racist, even though I don't even see colour when it comes to who I like or not. |
There is nothing wrong with defending yourself. But if you use racist remarks, that's on you. |
What's racist about not liking someone? And all I ever really said was something like "get lost". They were beating up my little sister too, until I cornered the ringleader by herself. Being 6 foot can be useful sometimes, even though I didn't do anything apart from tell her to leave my sister alone. |
It can be termed racist if you say like "hey ni**er, get the **** out of here" like that. When you say ignorant things like that, you deserve to be treated with ignorance, like a flogging of some sort. But I figure you're not the kind of person to even say something like that.
Again, you can defend yourself but when you start using words like that which I stated above, you're no better than they are.
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Seven of Nine
Sammie's Mammy
Joined: 16 Jun 2001
Posts: 7871
Location: North East England
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| Sat Jun 28, 2003 6:09 am |
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I wouldn't, but saying anything to them makes me racist, according to them. I say I don't like them, they say it's because they're racist.
You're right... I wouldn't say anything like that. But calling me a German b****** or Nazi dog is racist.
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Los
Commodore
Joined: 07 Jun 2002
Posts: 1336
Location: Oklahoma fa sho!
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| Sat Jun 28, 2003 12:06 pm |
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| Seven of Nine wrote: | I wouldn't, but saying anything to them makes me racist, according to them. I say I don't like them, they say it's because they're racist.
You're right... I wouldn't say anything like that. But calling me a German b****** or Nazi dog is racist. |
Well, you have to realize that alot of things that you see in life is biased and opinionated. While someone might think you're being racist because of a statement you make, it might not necessarily be the case. Take Trent Lott, for example. He's a prime candidate for this: He made a statement at the 100 year old senator's birthday and because he made an illwatched comment, he was ousted from his position as Senate Majority leader.
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