Honour in Iraq

PicardsTrueLove · **Fri Mar 28, 2003 11:02 am Honour in Iraq**

I recently read an article in the Globe that was written by a Western journalist living with a middle class Iraqi family in Baghdad. The family said that they hated Hussein for his actions and his wrongs, but that they felt that the war effort was not about unseating Hussein but about dishonouring the Iraqi people. They felt that it was an attack against their honour and that of their citizens that the US should take matters into their own hands. One of the men made the comment that the Iraqi people have an 11,000 year history: a history full of strife and honour. They are a resilient people. The US has a 200 year history: an exciting one perhaps, but still very short. Iraq is far more ancient and possibly even more wise than we are. The people of the country are not stupid or illiterate as the US has made them out to be. They are a people with a history of honour and attention to duty. They are a people that religion did not divide for a very long time. They are a people who survived the Crusades, the early Jihads, countless invasions, and many tyrants. And they are a people who fought back against each one. A member of the Baghdad symphony was on public radio about a month ago. He spoke of how the Symphony had once been a spectacular group of performers: that they had played some of the most difficult and complex music ever written and played it brilliantly: Western music, Arabian music, any kind of music. Since the US sanctions, however, they lost many many members, yet they continue (to this day) to rehearse and give concerts, giving a glimmer of hope to the oppressed Iraqi people.

Iraq is a country of honour. Who are we to take that away?

Theresa · **Fri Mar 28, 2003 5:46 pm**

Quick question............

Who said the people had no honor? Just because that's how they perceive it doesn't mean that's how it is.

And I don't think that's all Iraqi citizens, because like I said in the last post, there is video and pics of Iraqi's running to the coalition soldiers, thanking them.

Starbuck · **Fri Mar 28, 2003 5:55 pm**

some iraqis are so honorable and think their country is so honorable that they won't accept help from american and brittish troops

Theresa · **Fri Mar 28, 2003 6:08 pm**

PicardsTrueLove · **Fri Mar 28, 2003 6:14 pm**

Theresa · **Fri Mar 28, 2003 6:29 pm**

^I totally understand that. But some ways of thinking are archaic, and need to be changed. Once the civilian population has a taste of real freedom, I think many attitudes will change.

PicardsTrueLove · **Fri Mar 28, 2003 6:36 pm**

Who are we to define real freedom? Americans, those with a President who says things like, "You're either for us or against us." If I were an Iraqi citizen right now I would be saying, "What is it that makes them so great?"

Theresa · **Fri Mar 28, 2003 6:40 pm**

1. A female can drive a car. She can work. What money she earns, she keeps. A man does not have to serve in the military. A person is allowed to protest whatever they would like. A person can go where they would like.

2. A female may not drive, must sit in back seat. Cannot work w/out a mans permission. Money earned, must be given to male family member. Cannot speak out against the government. Must serve in the military, or be executed. Are not free to travel.

Take your pick. You can look up freedom in Merriam Webster, they can define it for you. Living under SH's regime is not freedom by anyones standards.

Starbuck · **Fri Mar 28, 2003 6:42 pm**

the iraqis see us as ocupators and dictators not liberators and i fear for the worst

Theresa · **Fri Mar 28, 2003 6:42 pm**

Main Entry: free�dom
Pronunciation: 'frE-d&m
Function: noun
Date: before 12th century
1 : the quality or state of being free: as a : the absence of necessity, coercion, or constraint in choice or action b : liberation from slavery or restraint or from the power of another : INDEPENDENCE c : the quality or state of being exempt or released usually from something onerous <freedom from care> d : EASE, FACILITY <spoke the language with freedom> e : the quality of being frank, open, or outspoken <answered with freedom> f : improper familiarity g : boldness of conception or execution h : unrestricted use <gave him the freedom of their home>
2 a : a political right b : FRANCHISE, PRIVILEGE
synonyms FREEDOM, LIBERTY, LICENSE mean the power or condition of acting without compulsion. FREEDOM has a broad range of application from total absence of restraint to merely a sense of not being unduly hampered or frustrated <freedom of the press>. LIBERTY suggests release from former restraint or compulsion <the released prisoner had difficulty adjusting to his new liberty>. LICENSE implies freedom specially granted or conceded and may connote an abuse of freedom <freedom without responsibility may degenerate into license>.

Theresa · **Fri Mar 28, 2003 6:43 pm**

PicardsTrueLove · **Fri Mar 28, 2003 6:58 pm**

Theresa · **Fri Mar 28, 2003 7:02 pm**

National Security. I'm sure we're all familiar w/ that term. There are things that we need to know, and things we'd like to know.

As for Basra, the Brits are having a bit of trouble there. I beleive the term was "bogged down". But they are also getting refugees from that area. If I was not clear, I apologize for that.

And if you beleive that your government is not telling you the truth, you have the freedom to take action. You have the freedom to have that government changed.

PicardsTrueLove · **Fri Mar 28, 2003 7:05 pm**

Theresa · **Fri Mar 28, 2003 7:13 pm**

There's also things that have not been disclosed to keep up morale, both at home and abroad. I have no doubt that our government would, and has lied to us, but, I for one beleive in the constitution. Once you stop, that's when your freedom has ended.

And when British TV is airing virtually the same news reports..........

PicardsTrueLove · **Fri Mar 28, 2003 7:15 pm**

Theresa · **Fri Mar 28, 2003 7:19 pm**

Huh. I never heard the administration say it would be quick. I always heard that we would do what we had to, and it would take as long as it takes. Just because the general population decided that since our military is obviously superior that it would only take a matter of weeks, or days, doesn't mean the administration said that.

PicardsTrueLove · **Fri Mar 28, 2003 7:26 pm**

PicardsTrueLove · **Fri Mar 28, 2003 7:28 pm**

(btw I have thoroughly enjoyed this debate but I have to go now. Thank you: you've been a great person to talk to.)

LightningBoy · **Sat Mar 29, 2003 4:15 pm**

How about the fact that most Iraqi citizens feel war is nessary?

How about the fact that Hussein has killed over 1,000,000 people?

It's not our choice to go to war, IT'S OUR OBLIGATION!

If you don't realize that evil needs to be destroyed, then you are a terrible human being, and a dissapointment of a person.

LightningBoy · **Sat Mar 29, 2003 4:17 pm**

Seven of Nine · **Sat Mar 29, 2003 6:07 pm**

Actually, many Iraqi's do see as as invaders and occupiers, rather than liberators. It's up to us to change that view. After all, if your kid's been injured because of a missile your "liberators" fired, you're not exactly going to see them like that. But overall, it depends where in Iraq you are

PicardsTrueLove · **Sat Mar 29, 2003 6:38 pm**

Theresa · **Sat Mar 29, 2003 6:43 pm**

1. Saddam, (yes, I did that on purpose, I feel he deserves no respect) will be removed.
2. A trust fund will be set up for the Iraqi people. All money from oil proceeds will go into it. And yes, the US will be one of the countries taking care of the money, we're the ones losing men.
3. ALL of the money is going to go to rebuilding Iraq, as a FREE nation. And no, I'm not again going to debate what "free" means, as I said, look it up.

Jeff Miller · **Sat Mar 29, 2003 6:43 pm**