Garak: Why do people think he's gay?

Captain Michael Pike · Captain Joined: 14 Jul 2001 Posts: 597 Location: PA

To say that the Cardassians held the Bajorans in the same regard as they held themselves and not as inferiors simply shows that you have no real knowledge of DS9, the history of the Cardassians or the Bajorans. To say their ideals are more like former governments is ludicrous. I don't remeber settlers arriving in America and immediately enslaving Indians with the effort to destroy their culture and histories. I'm not saying what happened wasn't equally as bad but you have to admit that the intention of committing slavery and genocide was nonexistent, they were escaping limitations of their governments.

What's more, you can't simply take a section of history like the Third Reich and take it out of context, entirely, in an effort to compare it to another equally out of context fictional history. Your comparison is flawed if you don't take into account the history that led to the birth of the Reich and the Union.

Captain Michael Pike · Captain Joined: 14 Jul 2001 Posts: 597 Location: PA

Oh yeah...btw...you could be Polynesian for all I care. Your argument is flawed and wrong.

thegame · **Thu Feb 13, 2003 11:57 pm**

I have no real knowelge of Deep Space Nine?

Because I disagree with you?

That's a pathetic statement and entirely untrue.

And you keep misunderstanding what I say, it's hopeless.

Captain Michael Pike · Captain Joined: 14 Jul 2001 Posts: 597 Location: PA

Perhaps you have "episodic" knowledge, but you have no in depth knowledge of the cultures represented. They are completely different. And you're not wrong because you disagree, you're wrong because your argument is flawed. Sorry...

thegame · **Fri Feb 14, 2003 12:03 am**

You don't know me, I don't know you. Do you get off insulting people through a moniter? I hate getting pissed off online, but when you attack me personally with obviously no real fear of rebuttle it's fuel for anger. Ever heard of "attack the post, not the poster." I watch DS9 more than any other show I've ever seen. I consider it my favorite hobbie outside of playing football. I take pride in my love of the show, as I'm sure you do. You want to pick a fight? It's all meaningless here. Opinion is opinion. I get facts all day at school, I'm sure you have as well or do now. I draw a comparrison from two different things as you, so I'm the fool?

Captain Michael Pike · Captain Joined: 14 Jul 2001 Posts: 597 Location: PA

It's not that I misunderstand what you say either. I understand completely...but when taken out of historical and cultural content, one could say that the Federation is most similarly to the Nazi Regime, or the Vulcans for that matter. When put into context, Cardassia most closely resembles Nazi Germany as a whole and a culture.

True that Dominion Occupied Cardassia most resembles the very end of the Nazi Regime, but as a whole the Dominion can not be compared to the Nazis. They were isolationists, who when they felt threatened, declared War on other species and finally against their allies, the Cardassians.

thegame · **Fri Feb 14, 2003 12:06 am**

Who determines who has the wrong argument? Who determines who has the in depth knowlege? Who the hell are you?

Captain Michael Pike · Captain Joined: 14 Jul 2001 Posts: 597 Location: PA

I have not picked a fight and I do not call names like "fool", if that is how you feel about yourself I can't help that. But the simple fact is that any history taken out of context to be made as a comparison is flawed.

thegame · **Fri Feb 14, 2003 12:08 am**

"Dominion occupied Cardassia" was said to determine time frame, as in the 2374-75 era. It was NOT meant to include the Dominion as part of the Comparrison, or to make a new one between the Founders and Nazi's.

Captain Michael Pike · Captain Joined: 14 Jul 2001 Posts: 597 Location: PA

I am the one who is calmly debating a fictional comparison and not getting red faced when proved wrong. Prove me wrong and I will accede happily. So far you have not, regardless of your cultural background which you seem to think makes you the authority in everything German...

thegame · **Fri Feb 14, 2003 12:11 am**

You don't stop. You a history professor or something? I find the context of history I have used here to be factual.

Oh wait... it's flawed and out of context. I know.

thegame · **Fri Feb 14, 2003 12:12 am**

I can't prove you wrong. Because we have been debating opinion and comparrison arguments all along. I'm no better than you, nor you than me.

Captain Michael Pike · Captain Joined: 14 Jul 2001 Posts: 597 Location: PA

Hey I agreed with you before...when taken out of context, Dominion occupied Cardassia" most closely resembles the end of the Nazi Regime. But historically and culturally, (ok I'll change it here) the Cardassia Union most closely resembles Nazi Germany.

thegame · **Fri Feb 14, 2003 12:14 am**

How can you say that? Again you compare a 12 year government to an entire race and history. It's ludicrous.

Captain Michael Pike · Captain Joined: 14 Jul 2001 Posts: 597 Location: PA

I invite anyone not emotionally involved to find a flaw in my arguments and comparisons. Like I said prove me wrong...

Captain Michael Pike · Captain Joined: 14 Jul 2001 Posts: 597 Location: PA

Occupied Bajor and the Cardassian Union are not an entire history in the same fashion that Nazi Germany and the Holocaust are not the entire history of the Germans. Count to ten and take a deep breath...it's ok.

Captain Michael Pike · Captain Joined: 14 Jul 2001 Posts: 597 Location: PA

Even still, Germany had its fair share of contributions to the arts and religions of the world BEFORE the Nazi Regime. Didn't I read somewhere that Cardassia was similar...generally peaceful, religious and artistic? Oh yeah...in that first post where I posted the ST Encyclopedias general description of the Cardassians.

thegame · **Fri Feb 14, 2003 12:21 am**

Okay... I'll give it a whirl, even though you have classified me as emotionally envolved.

In a recent post, you said, quote: "Historically and culturally, Cardassia most closely resembles Nazi Germany".

My factual debate is as follows:

The Nazi German government, in existence from 1933 until mid 1945, was a government based soley on a single party dictatorship, with a elitist mentality and a fierce will to expand, militarily. The Cardassians, by contrast, spent a millenia as peacful and cultured as a race. In only a fraction of their history were they fiercly imperialistic and dictatorial. By contrast the Nazi's were ALWAYS this way. The Nazi Germans were also one segment of a history of a race, while the Cardassian part of this comparrison is taken as a whole, from conception to present day. The difference between the two units compared is as large as the gap between the Nazi governmental lifespan and the Cardassian racial history.

So I tried to do what you asked? I'm sure I failed miserably, right?

Captain Michael Pike · Captain Joined: 14 Jul 2001 Posts: 597 Location: PA

thegame · **Fri Feb 14, 2003 12:33 am**

Okay!

I agree with what you say! I never disagreed! But the ORIGINAL comparrison, before any edits or new posts, was NAZI Germany to ALL CARDASSIA. The Cardassians you discuss using my words are the 24th century ones that are more like the Nazi's. But that was not the comparrison I took issue with. You see what I'm saying?

Captain Michael Pike · Captain Joined: 14 Jul 2001 Posts: 597 Location: PA

In any case, I'm done arguing fictional comparisons. I'm tired and must go to bed now...

thegame · **Fri Feb 14, 2003 12:35 am**

Well, I need to be getting to bed too. Big B-Ball game tomorrow!

PrankishSmart · **Fri Feb 14, 2003 12:55 am**

^LOL @ both of ya's

Red Quacker · Captain Joined: 21 Jan 2003 Posts: 714

The phrase "doesn't matter an iota" comes to mind.

You went through all that argument just to come to the conclusion that the Germans/Nazis were the inspiration for Cardassia?

Isn't that what I (and the DS9 writers) was saying all along?

thegame · **Sat Feb 15, 2003 12:38 am**

Arguments happen. It's healthy sometimes.