Is a war on Iraq Justified??

[Captain Leah Manzer]

did anyone watch Bush's speach today? Well yesterday? I didnt watch all of it...what did he say?

[kevin1]

I think it is justiffied and good/bath for the people. Good because the Americans wont help the people of Iraq for got them richer than the are now. Bath because the people leeps there with the challange '' when got the bombs ruin my house.

[Theresa]

Who read the letter sent to Bush/America by the leaders of Spain, Portugal, Italy, the UK, Hungary, Poland and Denmark? It was in the Wall Street Journal today. If anyone wants to read it who wasn't able to, I'll try and locate it online, or if not, I can type it up from the paper I have.

[PicardsTrueLove]

That would be great: I didn't know it existed! I try to keep up on politics but sometimes I get so mad that I have to step away. I don't like our President's methods very much.

[Los]

United We Stand

Eight European leaders are as one with President Bush.

Thursday, January 30, 2003 12:01 a.m. EST

(Editor's note: This article is written by Jose Mar�a Aznar, Jose-Manuel Dur�o Barroso, Silvio Berlusconi, Tony Blair, Vaclav Havel, Peter Medgyessy, Leszek Miller and Anders Fogh Rasmussen)

The real bond between the U.S. and Europe is the values we share: democracy, individual freedom, human rights and the rule of law. These values crossed the Atlantic with those who sailed from Europe to help create the United States of America. Today they are under greater threat than ever.

The attacks of Sept. 11 showed just how far terrorists--the enemies of our common values--are prepared to go to destroy them. Those outrages were an attack on all of us. In standing firm in defense of these principles, the governments and people of the U.S. and Europe have amply demonstrated the strength of their convictions. Today more than ever, the trans-Atlantic bond is a guarantee of our freedom.

We in Europe have a relationship with the U.S. which has stood the test of time. Thanks in large part to American bravery, generosity and farsightedness, Europe was set free from the two forms of tyranny that devastated our continent in the 20th century: Nazism and communism. Thanks, too, to the continued cooperation between Europe and the U.S. we have managed to guarantee peace and freedom on our continent. The trans-Atlantic relationship must not become a casualty of the current Iraqi regime's persistent attempts to threaten world security.

In today's world, more than ever before, it is vital that we preserve that unity and cohesion. We know that success in the day-to-day battle against terrorism and the proliferation of weapons of mass destruction demands unwavering determination and firm international cohesion on the part of all countries for whom freedom is precious.

The Iraqi regime and its weapons of mass destruction represent a clear threat to world security. This danger has been explicitly recognized by the U.N. All of us are bound by Security Council Resolution 1441, which was adopted unanimously. We Europeans have since reiterated our backing for Resolution 1441, our wish to pursue the U.N. route, and our support for the Security Council at the Prague NATO Summit and the Copenhagen European Council.

In doing so, we sent a clear, firm and unequivocal message that we would rid the world of the danger posed by Saddam Hussein's weapons of mass destruction. We must remain united in insisting that his regime be disarmed. The solidarity, cohesion and determination of the international community are our best hope of achieving this peacefully. Our strength lies in unity.

The combination of weapons of mass destruction and terrorism is a threat of incalculable consequences. It is one at which all of us should feel concerned. Resolution 1441 is Saddam Hussein's last chance to disarm using peaceful means. The opportunity to avoid greater confrontation rests with him. Sadly this week the U.N. weapons inspectors have confirmed that his long-established pattern of deception, denial and noncompliance with U.N. Security Council resolutions is continuing.

Europe has no quarrel with the Iraqi people. Indeed, they are the first victims of Iraq's current brutal regime. Our goal is to safeguard world peace and security by ensuring that this regime gives up its weapons of mass destruction. Our governments have a common responsibility to face this threat. Failure to do so would be nothing less than negligent to our own citizens and to the wider world.

The U.N. Charter charges the Security Council with the task of preserving international peace and security. To do so, the Security Council must maintain its credibility by ensuring full compliance with its resolutions. We cannot allow a dictator to systematically violate those resolutions. If they are not complied with, the Security Council will lose its credibility and world peace will suffer as a result. We are confident that the Security Council will face up to its responsibilities.

Messrs. Aznar, Dur�o Barroso, Berlusconi, Blair, Medgyessy, Miller and Fogh Rasmussen are, respectively, the prime ministers of Spain, Portugal, Italy, the U.K., Hungary, Poland and Denmark. Mr. Havel is the Czech president.

-------------------------

Someone from TRS beat you to the punch.

[Theresa]

United We Stand

By Jose Maria Aznar, Jose-Manuel Durao Barrosco, Silvio Berlusconi, Tony Blair, Vaclav Havel, Peter Medgyessy, Leszek Miller And Anders Fogh Rasmussen

The real bond between the US and Europe is the values we share: democracy, individul freedom, human rights and the rule of law. These values crossed the Atlantic with those who sailed from Europe to help create the United States of America. Today they are under greater threat than ever.
The attacks of Sept. 11 showed just how far terrorists - the enemies of our common values - are prepared to go to destroy them. Those outrages were an attack on all of us. In standing firm in defense of these principles, the goverments and people of the US and Europe have amply demonstrated the strength of their convictions. Today more than ever, the trans-Atlantic bond is the guarantee of our freedom.
We in Europe have a relationship with the US which has stood the test of time. Thanks in large part to American bravery, generosity and farsightedness, Europe was set free from the two forms of tyranny that devestated our continent in the 20th century: Nazism and communism. Thanks, too, to the continued coooperations between Europe and the US, we have managed to guarantee peace and freedom on our continent. The trans Atlantic relationship must not become a casualty of the current Iraqi regime's persistent to threaten world security.
In today's world, more than ever before, it is vital that we preserve that unity and cohesion. We know that success in the day-to-day battle against terrorism and the proliferation of weapons of mass destruction demans unwavering determination and firm international cohesion on the part of all countries for whom freedom is precious.
The Iraqi regime and its weapons of mass destruction represent a clear threat to world security. This danger has been explicitly recognized by the UN. All of us ar bound by Security Council Resolution 1441, which was adopted unanimously. We Europeans have since reiterated our backing for Resolution 1441, our wish the pursue the UN route, and our support for the Security Council at the Prague NATO Summit and the Copenhagen European Council.
In doing so, we sent a clear, firm and unequivocal message that we would rid the world of the danger posed by Saddam Hussein's weapons of mass destruction. We must remain united in insisting that his regime be disarmed. The solidarity, cohesion and determination of the international community are our best hope of achieving this peacefully. Our strength lies in unity.
The combination of weapons of mass destruction and terrorism is at hreat of incalculable consequences. it is one at which all of us should feel concerned. Resolution 1441 is Saddam Huessein's last chance to disarm using peaceful means. The opportunity to avoid greater confrontation rests with him. Sadly this week the UN weapons inspectors have confirmed that his long established pattern of deception, denial and non compliance with UN Security Council resolutions is continuing.
Europe has no quarrel with the Iraqi people. Indeed, they are the first victims of Iraq's current brutal regime. OUr goal is to safeguard world peace and security by ensuring that this regime gives up its weapons of mass destruction. Our governments have a common responsiblity to face this threat. Failure to do so would be nothing less than negligent to our own citizens and to the wider world.
The UN Charter charges the Security Council with the task of preserving international peace and security. To do so, the Security Council must maintain its credibility by ensuring full compliance with its resolutions. We cannot allow a dictator to systematically violate those resolutions. If they are not complied with, the Security Council will lose it's credibility and world peace will suffer as a result. We are confident that the Security Council will face up to its responsibilities.

Messrs. Aznar, Durao Barroso, Berlusconi, Blair, Medgyessy, Miller and Rasmussen are, respectively, the prime ministers of Spain, Portugal, Italy, the UK, Hungary, Poland and Denmark. Mr. Havel is the Czech president.

[Theresa]

Los, I'm going to kick your ass,

I just spent ten minutes typing that stupid thing, during which time you get it up there, There is no way that I'm deleting that. NO WAY!

[Seven of Nine]

Now all Blair needs to do is slow Bush down enough for France and a couple of other countries to join, and to try and persuade Germany... although the Queen, being part-German herself, would be better at that, I believe

[Los]

[Morphy]

I can't really say that I think it's justified, because I am not privy to the same information that my (USA) elected officials have. All I get is CNN.com, and I can't be for certain how accurate as far as the scope of the IRAQ issue I am presented.

There's a reason we have these elected officials, and I thrust that they have a legitimate concern with IRAQ. On the international level, if there's that many countries concerned with IRAQ to the point of discussing war, then I think war might be justified even though not publically.

Then again with war, or another differences in opinion, there's always going to be at least two sides. What is just to one, might not be for another.

[Seven of Nine]

Wow! The Morphy one speaks!

Interesting point... I'm thinking of going into an Armed Forces recruitment office and seeing if I can help in any way... although I'm not fit enough to join any of the normal forces, I might be able to help in other ways... I am good on computers, after all

[Theresa]

War should always be a last resort. People keep saying try diplomatic channels. It's been 12 years. How many diplomatic options do you think are still available? After the UN Security Councils negative report, suddenly the Iraqi government is inviting Hans Blix & Co. back. If there is still a chance for a peaceful end, by all means, take it. But if not, as we all know, there is a price for freedom.

Everyone says the US is a bully, the world police. Ok, the US pulls all funding, all military "peace keeping" forces, calls in all debts, and bankrupts the world. What will happen then? Total chaos. Who will you call for? Obviously not the US.
Every country that we have ever been to war with, we've helped rebuild. Germany, Japan, etc.... We have people starving here, homeless. Yet we still send billions of dollars worth of food and medicine to third world countries, send doctors, engineers, whatever we can. It's easy to overlook all of that and call us pushy and arrogant. But take a look at what the United States does to help the world, too. Like Morphy said, there is more than one side to all issues.
And obviously my president isn't such a moron after all. The UN is now agreeing with what he's been saying all along. And if you say he swayed them, or bullied them, you are belittling your own country, saying that your leaders are not strong enough to stand up to him.

[chakotay1]

[Greg87]

True

[Theresa]

BAGHDAD, Iraq (Feb. 5) - Saddam Hussein is daring the United States to prove Iraq has weapons of mass destruction and denies having ties to al-Qaida.

Saddam made the remarks in a rare television interview broadcast Tuesday, one day before Secretary of State Colin Powell appears before the U.N. Security Council to present U.S. evidence of Iraqi attempts to hide mass destruction weapons.

``These weapons do not come in small pills that you can hide in your pocket,'' Saddam said in the interview with retired anti-war British lawmaker, Tony Benn. ``These are weapons of mass destruction, and it is easy to work out if Iraq has them or not.''

On Tuesday, U.N. inspectors searching for those weapons found an empty chemical warhead during one of a dozen surprise inspections at the al-Taji ammunition depot, just north of Baghdad. It was the 17th empty chemical warhead found over the past month.

Sitting on a gilded chair beside a white, black and red Iraqi flag with green stars, Saddam sipped coffee and spoke calmly as he also rejected any connection to al-Qaida.

``If we had a relationship with al-Qaida, and we believed in that relationship, we wouldn't be ashamed to admit it,'' he said.

The interview was taped in Baghdad on Sunday and broadcast around the world in an attempt to present the Iraqi case before Powell's appearance before a skeptical Security Council. The United States and Britain are trying to convince Russia, France, Germany, China and others of the need for quick military action if the Iraqis refuse to cooperate fully in the search for their alleged banned weapons.

On Tuesday, British Prime Minister Tony Blair failed to persuade French President Jacques Chirac that the time for further inspections was running out. Chirac insisted that the inspectors be given all the time they want to determine if Iraq is holding illegal weapons.

After hundreds of inspections since November, the U.N. arms controllers have yet to find a major violation of the U.N. resolutions barring Iraq from having chemical, biological or nuclear weapons. The U.N. resolutions were adopted after Iraq's defeat by a U.S.-led coalition in the 1991 Gulf War.

But the United States and Britain insist that Saddam has not complied and threaten to force Iraq to disarm - by force if necessary.

The pivotal council session Wednesday comes amid intense U.S. pressure to speed up the inspection process. Tens of thousands of U.S. troops are massing in the Gulf and a third U.S. aircraft carrier, the USS Abraham Lincoln, has now moved within striking distance of Baghdad.

The session also falls only days before chief U.N. inspectors, Hans Blix and Mohamed ElBaradei, travel to Baghdad for talks with Iraqi officials about unresolved issues to facilitate inspections, including the disputed U.N. plan to use American U-2 reconnaissance planes to overfly Iraq in support of the U.N. mission.

In New York, Blix appealed to Iraq to mend its ways, warning that it is ``five minutes to midnight'' and pleading with Baghdad to show that it is actively cooperating during his visit this weekend by producing evidence about its banned weapons programs.

`I don't think that the end is there - that a date has been set for an armed action,'' Blix said. ``But I think that we're moving closer and closer to it, and therefore it seems to me that the Iraqi leadership must be well aware of that.''

But Blix said that so far, the responses he has seen from the Iraqi government have not indicated that it is prepared to provide the critical information that he and nuclear chief ElBaradei are hoping for during their visit to Baghdad this weekend.

Aspressure builds to create a consensus, Saddam said the United States had no right to act alone and should work with other nations to solve international problems.

Saddam said he did not think it was wise for any leader to ``do without the rest of the world.''

``If this person chooses to stay on this planet and ignore the rest of the world, then the least we can say is that this person is lacking in wisdom,'' he said.

Benn, a former government minister and lawmaker, traveled to Baghdad in a bid to try to stop a war. Benn is an outspoken pacifist who has been strongly critical of Prime Minister Tony Blair's support for action against Iraq.

[Seven of Nine]

Did anyone see that guy's 75 minute speech? You know... the guy that tried to prove to the world that Saddam Hussain was moving weapons of mass destruction? (I think his name's Colin Powell, but said differently).

Interesting speech, and interesting prove, just why didn't the US show this in November, so the Weapons Inspectors could have had something to work from? I think people are starting to think the US is obstructing the Weapons Inspectors, not just Iraq.

[Theresa]

[Theresa]

WASHINGTON (Feb. 6) - In the face of stiff opposition from allies, President Bush said Thursday that world leaders ''must not back down'' from Saddam Hussein and demanded quick action to disarm Iraq.

''The game is over,'' he declared. ''Saddam Hussein will be stopped.''

Bush said he would be open to a second U.N. resolution on Iraq, following up one approved last November, but only if it led to prompt disarmament.

''The Security Council must not back down when those demands are defied and mocked by a dictator,'' Bush said. If the U.N. fails to act, ''The United States, along with a growing coalition of nations, is resolved to take whatever action is necessary to defend ourselves and disarm the Iraqi regime,'' he said.

Bush spoke after meeting with privately with Powell to discuss efforts to win U.N. approval of a resolution specifically authorizing use of force. Powell, who laid out the U.S. case to the U.N. Security Council on Wednesday, told lawmakers Thursday that the Iraqi situation would be brought to a conclusion ''one way or another'' in a matter of weeks.

Sticking largely to the case outlined by Powell on Wednesday, Bush said there is no doubt Saddam is not complying.

''Saddam Hussein recently authorized Iraqi field commanders to use chemical weapons, the very weapons the dictator tells the world he does not have,'' Bush said.

''Saddam Hussein has made Iraq into a prison, poison factory and a torture chamber for patriots and dissidents,'' Bush said. ''Saddam Hussein has the motive and the means and the recklessness and the hatred to threaten the American people. Saddam Hussein has to be stopped.''

He said, ''The same terrorist network operating out of Iraq is responsible for the murder - the recent murder - of an American diplomat, Lawrence Foley.''

Foley, a U.S. Agency for International Development official, was killed last November outside his home in Amman, Jordan.

''Saddam Hussein was given a final chance, he is throwing that chance away. The dictator of Iraq is making his choice,'' Bush said.

Foreign ministers responded mostly with calls for more weapons inspections after Powell's U.N. presentation, in which he asserted that Iraq was shifting and hiding weapons and missile programs from the current inspectors.

Powell told the Senate Foreign Relations Committee that most of the statements read by foreign ministers after his speech had been prepared beforehand. He said he detected a shift in attitude when he talked to 13 of the ministers in private afterward.

Still, Bush and Powell were considering ways to attract more support for the possibility of using force to disarm Iraq.

Powell told the committee Bush would welcome a second resolution and ''many members of the Council would not only welcome it, some of them would say we require one for participation in whatever might come.''

A resolution approved unanimously by the Council in November authorized a new round of U.N. weapons inspections and warned Iraq of serious consequences if it defied earlier resolutions requiring it to get rid of weapons of mass destruction.

The Bush administration has taken the position that the November resolution was sufficient backing for the use of force. But France, among other nations, does not agree.

Bush spoke to reporters without taking questions.

The president said Saddam has not accounted for a ''vast arsenal'' of weapons of mass destruction and is pursuing weapons programs in defiance of U.N. resolutions.

''This deception is directed from the highest levels of the Iraqi regime, including Saddam Hussein, his son, the vice president and the very official responsible for cooperating with inspectors,'' Bush said.

Powell told the senators he had told Council members at the time of the November resolution that Iraq would be subjected to military action if it failed to comply. In fact, he said, he told ministers they should not vote for the resolution if they would not support a second resolution ''when serious consequences are called for.''

''Don't play that double game,'' he said he told the ministers.

Powell said Thursday a key to winning Security Council support would be a two-day visit to Baghdad this weekend by chief weapon inspectors Mohamed ElBaradei and Hans Blix.

[PrankishSmart]

[Theresa]

^ Just trying to keep you all informed,

[Los]

Did you copy paste or hand write it? LOL. Another labor of love.

I found his speech quite motivative, to the point, ample proof to go to war. But I still say let the inspectors do their jobs. Give them another month or two.

It was Collin Powell that gave the speech to the UN security council. They didn't show the UN the information because the CIA and other information gathering agencies risked their necks for that information and didn't wat the administration to go tossing it around. People's lives are at stake, and not just Iraqis!

[Greg87]

Try

[Theresa]

Did you hear that they are closing all wal-mart's and k-mart's in the middle east? They are all being replaced with Targets.

[Seven of Nine]

That's interesting...

Walmart's are called Asda's here, but I like them. They do lovely white chocolate for 58p

[Los]