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Cange
Lieutenant
Joined: 30 Jul 2009
Posts: 148
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 Sat Aug 08, 2009 6:40 pm |
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then again i must bow to the good argument founder maded
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milan
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 18 Jan 2009
Posts: 263
Location: Romania
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| Sun Aug 09, 2009 8:24 am |
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| Founder wrote: | milan calls people that disagree on VOY "parallel universe" people. Riiiight. Yet, you think VOY is a warship. Who lives in a parellel universe here?
http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Warship_Voyager
http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/USS_Voyager
From the episode "Living Witness"...
"Voyager wasn't a warship! We were explorers!"
- The Doctor
He was saying this to the aliens that WRONGLY thought VOY was a warship. Would you just give it up on that already?
As for this topic, it's all a matter of what people prefer. VOY and DS9 were considered "different" Trek, although I don't understand why. The spirit of exploring what is unknown (Whether in the stars or in yourself) is explored heavily. I think VOY and DS9 are almost the brother and sister of different Trek.
Personally, I think DS9 is the superior show because it had closure, deeper characters, a more grounded look into the Star Trek universe, and had episodes that would literally move you (Visitor anyone?).
VOY wasn't bad, it just had a lot of mistakes and unused opportunities. |
After this much time, you come up with...this??
"WE were explorers" ("we" usually refers to people): meaning that they didn't come here to wage war on the Delta Quadrant, that they only intended to explore it as they went homewards. This thing is stated at the caption that runs beneath the whole "Star Trek Voyager" thread, man "Why pretend we're going home at all?..." This is no news...
And the part about "Voyager was not a warship" belongs to the same line of thought, that their ship was not there to threaten and make war.
But let me not sound as if I would like to twist any words, although their meaning is obvious. Let me just ask you: what is the more believable source: the developers of the show, the designers of the new ship for the new ST series, or one line from one episode, which is meant to say in itself that they were no threat? Not to mention the fact that Starfleet Command would be such an incompetent lot that they would send a science ship to capture a rebellious Maquis ship that is considered social threat. What would they throw at them, new designs of food replicators, or a new species of vegetable they found on Bajor? Give it up, man. The best way out of this with your head up is: Hey sorry, my mistake, whatever.
Last edited by milan on Sun Aug 09, 2009 8:33 am; edited 4 times in total
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IntrepidIsMe
Pimp Handed
Joined: 14 Jun 2002
Posts: 13057
Location: New York
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| Sun Aug 09, 2009 9:30 am |
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In the context of the quote, The Doctor was referring to a literal warship.
In any case, I have always preferred Voyager to DS9, however, DS9 was certainly the better written and more interesting of the two.
-------signature-------
"Nelly, I am Heathcliff! He's always, always in my mind: not as a pleasure, any more than I am always a pleasure to myself, but as my own being."
-Wuthering Heights
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milan
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 18 Jan 2009
Posts: 263
Location: Romania
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| Sun Aug 09, 2009 2:41 pm |
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| IntrepidIsMe wrote: | In the context of the quote, The Doctor was referring to a literal warship.
In any case, I have always preferred Voyager to DS9, however, DS9 was certainly the better written and more interesting of the two. |
I like DS9 too, a lot, I've never written a bad word about it. The only problem I could think of with the show is that the lighting could have been better. Of course it's a Cardassian station, but it's a tv show too, and I dislike dimly lit spaces. But that is really just a personal opinion, and that is the only problem I can think of about that show. I just defend Voyager from the ones that think liking DS9 means you must hate Voyager.
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Cange
Lieutenant
Joined: 30 Jul 2009
Posts: 148
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| Tue Aug 11, 2009 4:51 pm |
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| Quote: | DS9 was certainly the better written and more interesting of the two.
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well mind telling us why you prefer Voyager then??
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IntrepidIsMe
Pimp Handed
Joined: 14 Jun 2002
Posts: 13057
Location: New York
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| Tue Aug 11, 2009 5:11 pm |
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I dunno, maybe I just like the characters better, or the day to day story lines. Sometimes you can get tired of story arches. I'm not sure.
-------signature-------
"Nelly, I am Heathcliff! He's always, always in my mind: not as a pleasure, any more than I am always a pleasure to myself, but as my own being."
-Wuthering Heights
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Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant
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| Sun Aug 16, 2009 5:56 pm |
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| milan wrote: | | Founder wrote: | milan calls people that disagree on VOY "parallel universe" people. Riiiight. Yet, you think VOY is a warship. Who lives in a parellel universe here?
http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Warship_Voyager
http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/USS_Voyager
From the episode "Living Witness"...
"Voyager wasn't a warship! We were explorers!"
- The Doctor
He was saying this to the aliens that WRONGLY thought VOY was a warship. Would you just give it up on that already?
As for this topic, it's all a matter of what people prefer. VOY and DS9 were considered "different" Trek, although I don't understand why. The spirit of exploring what is unknown (Whether in the stars or in yourself) is explored heavily. I think VOY and DS9 are almost the brother and sister of different Trek.
Personally, I think DS9 is the superior show because it had closure, deeper characters, a more grounded look into the Star Trek universe, and had episodes that would literally move you (Visitor anyone?).
VOY wasn't bad, it just had a lot of mistakes and unused opportunities. |
After this much time, you come up with...this??
"WE were explorers" ("we" usually refers to people): meaning that they didn't come here to wage war on the Delta Quadrant, that they only intended to explore it as they went homewards. This thing is stated at the caption that runs beneath the whole "Star Trek Voyager" thread, man "Why pretend we're going home at all?..." This is no news...
And the part about "Voyager was not a warship" belongs to the same line of thought, that their ship was not there to threaten and make war.
But let me not sound as if I would like to twist any words, although their meaning is obvious. Let me just ask you: what is the more believable source: the developers of the show, the designers of the new ship for the new ST series, or one line from one episode, which is meant to say in itself that they were no threat? Not to mention the fact that Starfleet Command would be such an incompetent lot that they would send a science ship to capture a rebellious Maquis ship that is considered social threat. What would they throw at them, new designs of food replicators, or a new species of vegetable they found on Bajor? Give it up, man. The best way out of this with your head up is: Hey sorry, my mistake, whatever. |
I believe the character in the show/the writer who put the words in his mouth/a canon site.
VOY was sent after the Maquis ship not because it's a powerful warship (they would have just sent the Defiant which is a lot closer....). They sent VOY, cause at the time at least, it was the fastest ship in the fleet.
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milan
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 18 Jan 2009
Posts: 263
Location: Romania
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| Mon Aug 17, 2009 2:58 pm |
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...and also because they have scienced out the cure for the common cold on its deck. Oh, by the way, that was also the reason it was the fastest ship too: they wanted to get the treatment to the sick as soon as possible. 
On the writer topic: the writers who were interviewed about Voyager all said it was the hardest job of their life, writing for Star Trek. You couldn't just fling any old topic in or leave the character a mere sketch, this was the top of the tops writing because the popularity of the show and the expectations of the people were so high. The characters had to seem real, well rounded, the plots multiple and challenging.
But of course if I have to give no arguments to my opinion -like you do- I believe Poe was just a sick, twisted man.
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Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant
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| Mon Aug 17, 2009 5:29 pm |
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| milan wrote: | | But of course if I have to give no arguments to my opinion -like you do- I believe Poe was just a sick, twisted man. |
I give links from canon sites...quotes from the characters...etc. And you have the nerve to say I give no arguments? 
The rest of your post made no sense.
As for the topic, It's all a matter of opinion as to which show is better. VOY and DS9 offered a bit of one thing the other didn't have. So it was nice to have them going on at the same time.
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milan
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 18 Jan 2009
Posts: 263
Location: Romania
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| Tue Aug 18, 2009 6:15 am |
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Well the first part of the post was ironical about Voyager being a science ship, rather than a warship. In the second part I felt I would point out some things on the topic of writers which you brought up. You seemed to question them. Plus your links and quotes from characters as arguments have not really withstood the test of our debates lately.
But as I am not a native speaker and my conviction is that one should learn at every given opportunity, I would like to ask you on the exact meaning of the phrase "canon site". I mean I know what a site is, and canon, as I know, is a standard, a criterion...like "the canons of taste". But obviously the two of them don't go together, so what is the meaning of "canon site?" Thank you in advance.
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minituvok
Ensign, Junior Grade
Joined: 12 Jul 2009
Posts: 41
Location: My room, singing "You Are My Sunshine" with my Doctor.
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| Wed Aug 19, 2009 7:23 pm |
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Sorry to break into the debate, but I figure you guys want to here the oh so lovely oppinion of minituvok, yes?
The first of the two Treks we're talking about that I watched was DS9. I LOVED it. You couldn't pull me away from the TV screen. Why did I love it? I think it was the fact that I could relate to it more than I could anything else- think about it. How realistic is it to be thrown across the Delta Quadrant, in a Starship? Of course, ST wasn't meant to be realistic, but I can actually imagine one day having a space station somewhere out in deep space.
After I watched DS9, I moved on to Voyager. I hated the first season. It just drove me insane that they were always on the move- I was used to sitting on a space station day after day after day, only occasionally making a trip to the Bad Lands or to the Gamma Quadrant. But after around 2-3 seasons of it, I realized that it was just different. I came to love it in time. I'm not really the type to say which is better, because they both were considered equally good in their own ways.
But, if I absolutely had to choose, Voyager kept my interest longer. DS9 had better characters, if you ask me, and some of the guest stars actually came back. The only real re-occuring guest star on Voyager was Seska- and on occasion Q.
-------signature-------
I say "Live Long and Prosper".
Then you say "Peace and Long Life".
It's the way of life.
Don't deny it.
LOVE IT.
OR DIE.
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milan
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 18 Jan 2009
Posts: 263
Location: Romania
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| Thu Aug 20, 2009 6:13 am |
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Well you know, one man's meat is another man's poison. What I loved in Voyager was precisely the journey. Although sitting on a space station has its charms too. As for realism, I don't see being flung to the Delta Quadrant being less realistic than a stable worm hole populated by Bajorian gods or whatnot. Anyway, these are details that don't matter in the debate of what makes a good show. A good show is made by the characters and plots, which were great on both shows.
On the topic of guest stars, Voyager traveled, while DS9 stood in one place. Guest stars can return there, but it is hard to explain how you meet a single person again in space after you traveled 40 thousand light years. Though I have to say DS9 had some kickass regular guest stars on the show, like Garak, whose guile and wit I've always liked, and Gul Dukat, who is just a smooth criminal. 
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Cange
Lieutenant
Joined: 30 Jul 2009
Posts: 148
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| Sun Sep 06, 2009 5:11 pm |
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the thing i loved from DS9 is that we managed to see that the Federation is not the only power in the alpha quadrant and we got to learn alot from different race,like Klingon,Cardassian,romulan and many other.we get to see different regime of society,weve seen strategic move and diplomatic relation.DS9 has it all seriously if it wasnt from DS9 i would not be such a star trek fan...
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milan
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 18 Jan 2009
Posts: 263
Location: Romania
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| Mon Sep 07, 2009 9:41 am |
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And then there's Voyager with the Hirogen, the Kazon, the Okampa and many others, adding another layer of other social structures and civilizations. Then there was TNG with the Borg, the Q,... All Star Trek is about new kinds of civilisations. THe best addition to the list that DS9 provided was unquestionably the Ferengi.
P.S. Klingons and Romulans were already there in TNG, even with Kirk.
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Cange
Lieutenant
Joined: 30 Jul 2009
Posts: 148
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| Tue Sep 15, 2009 1:09 pm |
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| Quote: | | And then there's Voyager with the Hirogen, the Kazon, the Okampa and many others, adding another layer of other social structures and civilizations. Then there was TNG with the Borg, the Q,... All Star Trek is about new kinds of civilisations. THe best addition to the list that DS9 provided was unquestionably the Ferengi. |
dont make me laught hirogen were cool however the rest were just inferior species not worth our time kazon,malon Okampa were all boring and most episode with them were bad they wouldnt have lasted 10 years in the alpha quadrant or the gamma.
Ferengie came from TNG by the way however,DS9 simply did what it does best bring interest to many other species then the federation
DS9 was about diplomacie and war tactic,it was not all about the federation we could see episode where we would see the Klingon save the day,other where it would be the romulan.and unlike in voyager DS9 shown that you cant win a war with a single ship.you just cant compare DS9 to voyager seriously,the only reason Voyager worked is that they gave what the fan wanted more episode with the borg.
DS9 was better overall.and seriously i didnt even tought i would like DS9 when i saw the show for the first time i was like wtf. but it was just a good show and no 1 can deny it unless they havent seen it
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milan
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 18 Jan 2009
Posts: 263
Location: Romania
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| Wed Sep 16, 2009 1:29 pm |
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1. I see you compare races from the show on the principle of "who can kick whose ass". A childish and simplistic point, but if it works for you, who am I to argue?
2. Voyager was not even in a war, helloo, the show was about completely different things.
3. Just because you say one can't compare DS9 to Voyager seriously does not make it so. I can say "The fat bastard race from Voyager ( dunno its name ) is actually a lot of Bud Spencers running around in space". The fact that I stated it does not make it true.
4. I have already said it once here on the site: none of my favourite episodes from Voyager have any Borg in it. So much for "Voyager worked only because of the Borg".
5. Yes, DS9 is a kickass show, I have said that several times too, it's only you that thinks that if you like one ST you simply MUST hate the other.
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Cange
Lieutenant
Joined: 30 Jul 2009
Posts: 148
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| Thu Sep 17, 2009 4:08 pm |
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| Quote: | | I see you compare races from the show on the principle of "who can kick whose ass". A childish and simplistic point, but if it works for you, who am I to argue |
well if the races are *beep* or look like homeless bums why should i care...i mean yes i prefer watch a series where strong empire face each other .
| Quote: | | Voyager was not even in a war, helloo, the show was about completely different things. |
no they werent but they were always fighting.
| Quote: | Just because you say one can't compare DS9 to Voyager seriously does not make it so. I can say "The fat bastard race from Voyager ( dunno its name ) is actually a lot of Bud Spencers running around in space". The fact that I stated it does not make it true.
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funny that you say that cause its exakly how you are acting in the Dominion vs borg discussion
| Quote: | | I have already said it once here on the site: none of my favourite episodes from Voyager have any Borg in it. So much for "Voyager worked only because of the Borg". |
maybey not yours but most ppl watched this series because there was alot of borg episode...i know i watched the series for species 8472
| Quote: | | Yes, DS9 is a kickass show, I have said that several times too, it's only you that thinks that if you like one ST you simply MUST hate the other. |
i dont hate on the others but the main reason i like star trek its because of DS9 i do whatch other series but voyager story wasnt one i liked...i prefered Enterprise on Voyager
if you ask me
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milan
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 18 Jan 2009
Posts: 263
Location: Romania
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| Fri Sep 18, 2009 10:50 am |
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Mamma mia, you're making even less sense than before.
Your first three remarks and the last one were completely useless, and in the fourth one you contradict yourself big time. The only thing I got from the whole post is that you like big guns and everything else is lost on you.
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Cange
Lieutenant
Joined: 30 Jul 2009
Posts: 148
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| Fri Sep 18, 2009 5:33 pm |
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look its simple.DS9 is better written has a better cast and better race then voyager and thats it
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milan
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 18 Jan 2009
Posts: 263
Location: Romania
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| Sat Sep 19, 2009 3:27 am |
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I hope you also stuck out your tongue with that remark...
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Cange
Lieutenant
Joined: 30 Jul 2009
Posts: 148
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| Mon Sep 21, 2009 12:57 am |
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why would i? its a fact
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milan
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 18 Jan 2009
Posts: 263
Location: Romania
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| Mon Sep 21, 2009 12:28 pm |
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Running out of gas... 
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Cange
Lieutenant
Joined: 30 Jul 2009
Posts: 148
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| Mon Sep 21, 2009 5:15 pm |
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even my girl who hate star trek got into DS9 lol now she the one callin me sayin Babe Star trek is on...yet she hate the other series
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milan
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 18 Jan 2009
Posts: 263
Location: Romania
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| Tue Sep 22, 2009 3:28 pm |
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Babe Trek? Well if she refers to Jadzia, the foxiest babe on DS9, she IS a babe... but Seven will always be undisputed champion of all ST in my book.
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Cange
Lieutenant
Joined: 30 Jul 2009
Posts: 148
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| Tue Sep 22, 2009 4:05 pm |
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well on that you are right seven is way more cute then dax ... probably the only thing voyager has over DS9
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