Captain Janeway 's Worst Command Decision

blackoutthegreat · Sophomore Cadet Joined: 08 Jun 2009 Posts: 11

I think her worst command discision was in Year of Hell where the ship starts firing at her and says to leave Krenem space. Her response is : unless you have something bigger in your torpedo tubes(then something about how there just going to continue through Krenem space. Really what happended to the prime dirrective?

milan · **Thu Jun 11, 2009 10:20 am**

It was just a ship flying through, with no hostile intentions. By what you are trying to suggest, Voyager should have just stayed put at the Caretaker array, otherwise it would have had to fly through space owned by other races. Don't even start your engines, Katherine, you're a lousy captain if you do that, girl.
Man, the argumentational ammo you guys use these days against our dear Janeway...

Getting desperate, aren't we?

Valathous · **Thu Jun 11, 2009 5:34 pm**

You know, acting egotistical doesn't help strengthen your arguments,

I can see what the other poster was saying. In many episodes we see that other species aren't being cooperative in letting Voyager cross their space so the crew has to come up with alternate routes or to follow pre-planned route by the natives of that space. Yet, in this instance because she knows that initially she has the tactical advantage, she decides to just bully her way through. What ends up happening? The Crenim end up restoring some of their strength and it results in the crew coming under fire to superior forces instead of taking the diplomatic route and going around private space when requested.

That has nothing to do with parking your ass in one spot and never moving.

milan · **Fri Jun 12, 2009 10:18 am**

1. I'm acting egotistical so that some people (like you, thank you very much for that

) would start bothering enough to post, otherwise this is a dead end.
2. You forget again to think outside the box. Even as a double episode, Year of Hell lasts about 80 minutes, in which they have to cram almost a year of action. By making Janeway just "bully" her way in they just cut the crap about "please let us in" "no" "may we make a deal?" "no" "maybe you could be persuaded..." "no". which would have taken about 10 minutes, 1/8 precious time that was used to show more important stuff instead of what we see enough of in plenty of other episodes. You guys just try to wiggle every little unnecessary detail in front of our faces and try to make it look like Armageddon. And that's why I have to state over and over again: this is what hinders you from seeing the real values the series is about.
So here's some more egotism from me, I hope you have fun and don't take it personally: next time try the approach of "Hey, in all the episodes I have never seen Janeway crap, that proves she's not even human!!"

IntrepidIsMe · **Fri Jun 12, 2009 10:50 am**

So because they're strapped for time they just have to make her a total bitch?

milan · **Fri Jun 12, 2009 11:03 am**

Sure, she wants to get her crew home, flying peacefully across vast empty space, bothering no one as she passes, occasionally appearing on an alien radar. What a bitch! She probably does it for money too ...

IntrepidIsMe · **Fri Jun 12, 2009 12:06 pm**

It's illegal to trespass anywhere, no matter your reasons.

Sara_Chakotay · **Fri Jun 26, 2009 6:02 pm**

keeping seven on board.
that just destroyed the J/C relationship
but it gave the guys something to jack off over

milan · **Mon Jul 13, 2009 2:26 pm**

blackoutthegreat · Sophomore Cadet Joined: 08 Jun 2009 Posts: 11

milan · **Mon Jul 20, 2009 6:41 am**

Haha, with the Kazon I was being ironic to prove a point, man... pay attention

minituvok · **Mon Jul 20, 2009 9:26 am**

The worst command Janeway ever made? I couldn't decide the worst, but I can decide on a few that I disagreed with.

1) The execution of Tuvix. I know how people are thinking these days- "They killed Tuvok so they could have Tuvok and Neelix back. Don't they have a right to individuality?" True, Tuvok and Neelix had a choice of individuality. But need a remind you that Tuvix was a mix of Tuvok and Neelix? Thus, I assume that he had the memories of both- and the voice of both. What Tuvix said was in agreement with what Tuvok and Neelix wanted to say. So, if Tuvix wanted to live, then doesn't that mean that Tuvok and Neelix wanted to live as Tuvix? Janeway has rights as a Captain- but to murder a person ust so she can have 'the old Tuvok and Neelix' back isn't something she should have done.

2) The destruction of the array. Of course, this one is obvious. She pretty much ruined her crew-and Chakotay's crew- chances of getting home anytime soon. All for what? So the Kazon didn't hate her, or something? Pretty darn selfish, if you ask me. Yes, yes. I know the whole "She did it so she didn't make enemies" theory. Need I remind you that she did, indeed, end up making enemies of the Kazon? Would she have to deal with that if she had let the array 'live' and go home? No, she wouldn't have to care about the Kazon.

3) Seven of Nine staying onboard. Yes, I know. She's a great character- one of my personal favorites. But it was a HUGE risk to the crew to let her stay aboard. I mean, honestly. Would you let a Borg who stated "I will deceive you all" stay onboard your vessel? I don't think so. Kinda makes you wonder why she wanted 7 to stay onboard anyways- we all know it couldn't have been for the "to take away Chakotay" thing. Hmmm...but I suppose that's for a different thread, no?

4) This one isn't really relevant, but I'll state it anyways- Letting Chakotay go. I know, their relationship wasn't really...there, to be precise. Remember on that planet, when Janeway and Chakotay were stuck together in that house for weeks? That's when the relationship thing started. Janeway had a chance- she could really have gotten Chakotay 'twisted around her fingers' but she didn't. She had to keep that Captain reputation going on, even when she was no longer Captain. In my oppinion, she should have just confronted Chakotay, told him how she felt, and then live happily ever after with him in the middle of nowhere. Like I said, this one is purely my thoughts.

So that's about it, IMO. I didn't mean to offend anyone by what I said.

milan · **Mon Jul 20, 2009 10:32 am**

Well, first of all, you didn't offend, we are happy about new posts, well actually, I am. Here's some thoughts on what you said:
1. The Tuvix thing was debated on this thread to the molecules, i refuse to go into it again.

2. Janeway destroyed the array to save an entire race: the Okampa. You have the survival of a race against the unified crew of two ships, who wouldn't even die, only take a chance with a looooong journey. The right choice is pretty obvious here, in my opinion.
3. Making Seven stay on board was one of the BEST decisions, something that was one of those "role model" decisions. Actually it was a decision that is kind of a cliche already in tv series, but it has its clear message nonetheless. When there's a chance to save a life, even if it's an enemy's, do not hesitate, even if it's risky. This is what separates good guys from bad guys. This is why Batman cannot stick a bat-shuriken (or what) into the Joker's throat, heck, it's why Luke doesn't kill Vader. And you see how well that turned out, almost as well as Seven

4. On the planet-episode they've already shown a kind of getting closer between the two of them...if they hadn't come back after them I think naturally in the end they would have got together. There just wasn't enough time to melt the captain-first mate ice. And after they got back on the ship, a good captain cannot really get involved with someone from the crew or they will start questioning some of her decisions sooner or later as being biased... Well I don't have to explain this, there are specific rules of conduct in such situations.

minituvok · **Mon Jul 20, 2009 8:08 pm**

milan, that's true, I guess, about the array. I'm sorry for bringing the Tuvix thing up again- I missed that debate.

I'm still not so sure about 7, though. I love her to Borg-assimilation, and I know things worked out to where she regained her individuality (most of it, anyways...), but what if things hadn't turned out the way Janeway wanted them to? What if she brought 7 onboard, and then she followed her promise: "I will deceive you all". I'd say it would be down the Jeffrey tubes from there.

As far as Chakotay/Janeway goes- I suppose you're right. They weren't on the planet long enough to go headfirst into a relationship. I still think it could have been pursued onboard Voyager.

milan · **Tue Jul 21, 2009 11:06 am**

Well, about Seven: yes, exactly, what if it had turned out bad? They showed with it: you must not let risk hinder you if there's a chance to save a life, if there's a chance to do a humane thing. It was a reminder for the viewer: be good, guys.

Let's not get into philosophy again, I'll just bring up good old Star Wars: Anakin killed count Dookoo, his enemy, who was evil. Yet, it was his first step to turning evil. Luke refused to kill Vader. It turned out he saved the Galaxy, in a manner of speaking, with his deed, since Vader killed the Emperor. But most importantly: he saved himself, his soul, he remained good. Many times you can hear it: if you strike back, you only show you're no better than the one who struck you. Thus, by not killing, on the contrary, trying to save Seven Janeway showed a general humanistic ideal through his deed.
As for the Janeway-Chakotay thing, you're right too, and I would have liked to see it happen too. But on board it couldn't have happened, because of the rules that as a captain and role model for the crew she couldn't allow herself to cross. And in the end, even if we all imagined how it would be, I think pairing the two of them up would have looked quite cheesy. "Oh we're home." Big kiss, curtains. Too fairytale-like. We all paired them up in our minds a dozen times anyway, am I right?

Cange · Lieutenant Joined: 30 Jul 2009 Posts: 148

ninja420 · Freshman Cadet Joined: 06 Aug 2009 Posts: 8

the worst decision she made was to go after chicotas supposed child in enemy territory. I mean obviously it was not true and she lost the ship for such stupid decisions. Proving that she is no captin at all. picard was the best captin. Voyager was great because of tuvok and tom paris and satans robot.

milan · **Thu Aug 06, 2009 2:26 pm**

Satan's Robot! Haaahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!
Was that Seven or the Borg in general? Haahahaa, with all the threads of memorable lines from all the ST series, this thing here was the most memorable yet!!!!

Cange · Lieutenant Joined: 30 Jul 2009 Posts: 148

nha not funny sorry

Admiral_Scotty · **Thu Aug 27, 2009 4:56 pm Timed torpedo**

I would have to say it was not just leaving a darn timed explosive to destroy the array in caretaker. I will never understand how a ship as advanced as voyager couldnt rig a little timed torpedo or tri cobalt. In a book I was just reading, Scotty rigged one and it didn't take him long at all, and it seemed to be easy. That being said, I loved voyager and still watch it when i can.

milan · **Fri Aug 28, 2009 6:04 am**

Because there was no time. Everything happened just so "darn" fast.

melodian · Sophomore Cadet Joined: 17 Sep 2009 Posts: 11

There was an episode where somehow Borg technology infiltrated voyager and it used the docs mobile emitter to create a borg fetus. That fetus at one point fired a charge injuring a crew member. This was a Borg entity utilizing 29th century technology for the very first time. With no way for Janeway 2 predict the danger of such an entity (which would include the extremely dangerous possibility of gifting 29th century technology 2 the borg) she chose 2 let the thing grow in the name of trying 2 preserve life. One fetusus life verses the risking of billions of lives....absolutely retarded. The thing ended up being not harmful in the episode but that is beside the point...actually he ended up commiting suicide 2 prevent the borg from getting the technology...Thanks Janeway...u really put the guy in a great spot. absurd someone wud put that much value on a fetuses life..much less a fetus programmed for evil . At least ther was a touching moment when the thing died and 7 for the first time got emptional.

melodian · Sophomore Cadet Joined: 17 Sep 2009 Posts: 11

There was an episode where somehow Borg technology infiltrated voyager and it used the docs mobile emitter to create a borg fetus. That fetus at one point fired a charge injuring a crew member. This was a Borg entity utilizing 29th century technology for the very first time. With no way for Janeway 2 predict the danger of such an entity (which would include the extremely dangerous possibility of gifting 29th century technology 2 the borg) she chose 2 let the thing grow in the name of trying 2 preserve life. One fetusus life verses the risking of billions of lives....absolutely retarded. The thing ended up being not harmful in the episode but that is beside the point...actually he ended up commiting suicide 2 prevent the borg from getting the technology...Thanks Janeway...u really put the guy in a great spot. absurd someone wud put that much value on a fetuses life..much less a fetus programmed for evil . At least ther was a touching moment when the thing died and 7 for the first time got emptional.

milan · **Tue Sep 22, 2009 3:15 pm**

There you go, Janeway kills, she's bad (see Tuvix). Janeway doesn't kill (see above), that's also bad. That equals: Janeway baaaad, period!!!

Not to mention the fact that, like so many other people, you deliberately miss the point of the episode to be able to make another futile attack Janeway's character. The episode shows that life is precious, above all. That we must not let fear of risk discourage us. Protect life. And it was given back: the Borg guy learned the lesson: protect life above all else. And he did, even if it destroyed him. It's just like the other completely useless debate, upon Tuvix, this episode also shows: Life is priceless, but more lives are more valuable than one. Janeway showed the first part (life is priceless), the Borg guy showed the second part (more lives are more valuable than one). These are the humane parts, the subtle messages, the raised issues that seem to be lost on so many of the viewers. Pity.

Cange · Lieutenant Joined: 30 Jul 2009 Posts: 148