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Ntypical
Lieutenant
Joined: 20 Oct 2007
Posts: 136
Location: North Carolina
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 Mon Nov 05, 2007 11:29 am |
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I do not think you are understanding what I am saying. Please go back and read my previous post again. I do not know how to explain it better than that.
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PrankishSmart
Rear Admiral
Joined: 29 Apr 2002
Posts: 4779
Location: Hobart, Australia.
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| Tue Nov 06, 2007 3:03 am |
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Hang on, do you mean a multi-stage type of missle much like a space rocket? Is this a conventional air to air missle?
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Ntypical
Lieutenant
Joined: 20 Oct 2007
Posts: 136
Location: North Carolina
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| Tue Nov 06, 2007 7:50 am |
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I guess you could call it multi stage. Without separating parts, just the different burn times for the solid fuel. Say there is a section of fuel that burns at this rate to get the missile up to speed, then once that is burnt another part of the fuel that is set to burn at a different rate to maintain the current velocity kicks in. That is the best way I know how to explain it, as that is how the Air O explained it to me. Other missiles like the AIM-9 have only one burn rate and do accelerate until the fuel is expended (I already said that). But remember that earlier we were talking about the AIM-54 which has a range of over one hundred nautical miles.
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PrankishSmart
Rear Admiral
Joined: 29 Apr 2002
Posts: 4779
Location: Hobart, Australia.
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| Tue Nov 06, 2007 8:19 pm |
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I understand. I am going to go by the belief that the rocket is at maximum thrust at launch which when it reaches mach 3.5 or so it throttles back by series of internal solid fuel tanks that run out one by one. I think that would make sense to optimize the rockets range and avoid the rocket accelerating beyond it's airframe design limit. Remember that with higher speed comes higher friction which is more heat. When a SR71 blackbird travels beyond mach 3 the temprature of the aircraft skin rises over 600C.
With that said there is no way a long range missle would ever shoot down an SR71 because they cannot handle high Gs to make an intercept turn at mach 3+ like sidewinders can. If the missle was in pursuit behind, it would be exhausted of propellant before it caught up.
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Ntypical
Lieutenant
Joined: 20 Oct 2007
Posts: 136
Location: North Carolina
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| Tue Nov 06, 2007 10:04 pm |
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| PrankishSmart wrote: | | Remember that with higher speed comes higher friction which is more heat. |
Yup. I totally agree with that.
| Quote: | | When a SR71 blackbird travels beyond mach 3 the temprature of the aircraft skin rises over 600C. |
Something like that.
| Quote: | | With that said there is no way a long range missle would ever shoot down an SR71 because they cannot handle high Gs to make an intercept turn at mach 3+ like sidewinders can. If the missle was in pursuit behind, it would be exhausted of propellant before it caught up. |
Depending on how fast the bird was traveling and how close they were to the 71 when they fired the missile. I am not saying it is likely, just that it is plausible. Because of the initial max speed of the missile. But said missile would reach a peak rather quickly. But for a time it would be traveling faster than its normal max speed (depending on the speed of the bird that fired it).
And we have gotten a bit off topic.
Back to topic.
New Information has just been provided to me (new information to me anyway)
Torpedoes can be fired at warp because they have something called a warp sustainer, they do not create a warp field, and canon information is sketchy on what exactly they do. But best guess is that they take a bit of the warp field with them when they pass through it. Adding their initial firing velocity to the speed of the ship. Now to the best of my knowledge, there has never been an on TV screen account of a ship firing their forward torpedo tubes while at warp. Only their aft tubes.
Most probes also have warp sustainer's. And in some non canon RP books it explains that some probes are totally warp capable up to warp 9. I believe that there were several warp capable probes fired from Voyager, but I can not remember details.
And Phasers can be fired at warp if they have the ACB Jacketing (Annular Confinement Beam) upgrade. There is no canon explanation of why the ACB Jacketing allows them to be fired at warp, only that they can be fired at warp with that upgrade.
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lionhead
Rear Admiral
Joined: 26 May 2004
Posts: 4020
Location: The Delta Quadrant (or not...)
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| Wed Nov 07, 2007 1:02 am |
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| Ntypical wrote: | Now to the best of my knowledge, there has never been an on TV screen account of a ship firing their forward torpedo tubes while at warp. Only their aft tubes.
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A borg cube did. TNG episode "Q Who"
-------signature-------
Never explain comedy or satire or the ironic comment. Those who get it, get it. Those who don't, never will. -Michael Moore
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Ntypical
Lieutenant
Joined: 20 Oct 2007
Posts: 136
Location: North Carolina
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| Wed Nov 07, 2007 5:24 am |
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| lionhead wrote: |
A borg cube did. TNG episode "Q Who" |
From looking back at the synopsis the only reference to the Borg firing is when they fire their cutting weapon, and while at warp they fire an energy draining weapon. The Enterprise fires several torpedoes from their aft tubes while at warp.
I will have to go back and watch the episode to be sure. But thank you for the information.
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Manitou
Ensign, Junior Grade
Joined: 17 Sep 2007
Posts: 43
Location: michigan, bob
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| Sun Nov 11, 2007 2:42 pm Warp Drive |
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I did some research and i think i can clarify this issue about ejecting torpedoes at warp. Apparently there are realities about warp drive that is worth acouple pages in somebody's book. The warp field generated sits on top of a sup-space field generated by the ship. Essentially what is going that fast(2000-3000 lt. speed) is a bubble of sub-space slipping through normal space. It is the warp-field that calls out a vector in the sub-space and sends the symmetric sub-space to a very high velocity. Theoretically, if anything is ejected outside the bubble generated by the ship it will begin degrading immediately. The fact that a missle has propulsion is irrelevant at that high velocity! What is important is there is a technology that will keep a sub-space around the missle so it can slip through normal space! I don't think star fleet issues missles with its own warp-drive.
I think what Star Trek entertained is ejecting missles at very low warp(warp 1 or lower) so the missles do not degrade before impact.
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Ntypical
Lieutenant
Joined: 20 Oct 2007
Posts: 136
Location: North Carolina
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| Mon Nov 12, 2007 2:29 am |
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| Quote: | | What is important is there is a technology that will keep a sub-space around the missle so it can slip through normal space! I don't think star fleet issues missles with its own warp-drive. |
Yes thank you. Hence the warp sustainers mentioned earlier. Unfortunately there is not much information on them. The only thing the Updated Star Trek Encylopedia says is that they are used to keep the torpedo at warp.
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InfinituS
Crewman
Joined: 27 Aug 2008
Posts: 2
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| Wed Aug 27, 2008 7:19 am |
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| Ntypical wrote: |
Torpedoes can be fired at warp because they have something called a warp sustainer, they do not create a warp field, and canon information is sketchy on what exactly they do. But best guess is that they take a bit of the warp field with them when they pass through it. Adding their initial firing velocity to the speed of the ship. Now to the best of my knowledge, there has never been an on TV screen account of a ship firing their forward torpedo tubes while at warp. Only their aft tubes.
Most probes also have warp sustainer's. And in some non canon RP books it explains that some probes are totally warp capable up to warp 9. I believe that there were several warp capable probes fired from Voyager, but I can not remember details.
And Phasers can be fired at warp if they have the ACB Jacketing (Annular Confinement Beam) upgrade. There is no canon explanation of why the ACB Jacketing allows them to be fired at warp, only that they can be fired at warp with that upgrade. |
A warp sustainer is just a warp drive that lacks the ability to enter warp independently. It is plausible that they are mounted on some of a starship's torpedo stockpile, for long-range FTL combat situations. An analogy: The starship is a car and the torpedo is a trailer. If the car accelerates to 180 km/h (illegal, I know) and releases the trailer, the trailer, having wheels, will continue to travel for a while, even after the car has changed lanes and slowed down.
I remember they transported at warp somewhere in ENT. ACB jacketing works along the same principles, but it's still dangerous, so isn't used except in dire situations.
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Voyager2004
Commodore
Joined: 13 Apr 2004
Posts: 2070
Location: Silverdale, WA
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| Mon Sep 01, 2008 12:39 pm |
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| Ntypical wrote: | | Now to the best of my knowledge, there has never been an on TV screen account of a ship firing their forward torpedo tubes while at warp. Only their aft tubes. |
Star Trek Voyager: Equiniox Pt. II.
Voyager chases the Equinox at high warp, approximately warp 7 or 8, speed is unknown for sure (No faster than Warp 8 because Janeway even says to Captain Ransom in Pt. I that his ship can't even go faster than warp 8 ) and Voyager launches torpedoes from their forward torpedo tubes at the Equinox, who is in front of them.
| Ntypical wrote: | | And Phasers can be fired at warp if they have the ACB Jacketing (Annular Confinement Beam) upgrade. There is no canon explanation of why the ACB Jacketing allows them to be fired at warp, only that they can be fired at warp with that upgrade. |
I've never heard of this upgrade. Not to say that it doesn't exist, but I've never heard of it.
Trek has on occasion made the stupid mistake of having ships fire phasers at warp, at which point this upgrade then does make sense, but there is definitely nothing canon about the upgrade...that I have heard of.
-------signature-------
"We all make our own Hell, Mr. Lessing. I hope you enjoy yours."
Kathryn Janeway - Equinox Pt 2
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JanewaysTwin
Ensign, Junior Grade
Joined: 14 Apr 2009
Posts: 35
Location: So-Cal
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| Wed Apr 15, 2009 12:31 am |
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Sorry if I'm out of line but technically when a ship travels at warp, it is only going at impulse. Warp works by folding subspace. They aren't really breaking the light barrier. Only the relative light barrier. The torpedo is travelling at the current warp factor plus it's potential speed, as long as it is within a warp field. Otherwise, it drops back into normal space and flys over the fold.
It travels the same distance, but with higher relative speed.
In terms some people will understand: yes, you can fire torpedos at warp.
Yea I do have alot to offer 
EDIT:
also, phasers are NOT lasers, they are a hybrid of energy weapons and particle weapons. Lasers don't blow up if you rig them in any way. Phasers can. In the voyager episode where they do that thing with going back in time one day and all that at the end the device doesn't work because of nadion PARTICLE resistance, a result of Janeway firing her PHASER
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