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Kyle Reese
Cadet Gunnery Sergeant
Joined: 21 Apr 2003
Posts: 5672
Location: The United States of America
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 Tue Dec 30, 2008 12:46 am Operation Cast Lead |
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As I write this, I can only wonder if I will be the only one actually "getting into" this news. But as it so happens, I need to keep my mind active. And this is the only kind of news I even bother to pay full attention to anymore. I will only be posting articles regarding this operation that I find pertinent, and perhaps sticking in my opinion here and there as to what will or may happen next. If you want to state your opinion, do so, but I'm not going to argue with anyone or respond to anyone unless I am addressed directly.
In my frequent absence from STV, I've garnered many different military sources for information on conflicts unfolding in the middle east, and will provide whatever information I can to anyone interested, for as long as I have free time at the computer.
In any case, here is the latest from the Jerusalem Post.
Death toll as it stands for the Palestinian side is around 350, with an estimated 50-60 of them civilians, the rest can be assumed to belong to Hamas, Islamic Jihad, the PRC, or the PFLP. Estimates of wounded generally range from 600-1,400. On the Israeli side, 3 civilians have been killed by rocket fire since Saturday, one IDF soldier was killed by mortar fire several hours ago, and dozens (possibly up to 50) civilians have been wounded, some critically.
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Kyle Reese
Cadet Gunnery Sergeant
Joined: 21 Apr 2003
Posts: 5672
Location: The United States of America
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| Tue Dec 30, 2008 12:37 pm |
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Strange, how I get the impression Hamas wants Israel to launch a ground offensive. Perhaps they think they can do more damage to IDF forces than to their civilian targets.
Update:
If Hamas ever manages to hit Tel Aviv with a rocket or missile, no amount of international pressure would stop the IDF from wiping Hamas out. It was the same case with Hezbollah in 2006.
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Kyle Reese
Cadet Gunnery Sergeant
Joined: 21 Apr 2003
Posts: 5672
Location: The United States of America
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| Wed Dec 31, 2008 10:53 am |
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Guess now it's just a matter of time until Israel launches the ground op.
Last edited by Kyle Reese on Mon Jan 05, 2009 2:56 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Kyle Reese
Cadet Gunnery Sergeant
Joined: 21 Apr 2003
Posts: 5672
Location: The United States of America
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| Thu Jan 01, 2009 10:38 pm |
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Score.
Last edited by Kyle Reese on Mon Jan 05, 2009 2:56 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Theresa
Lux Mihi Deus
Joined: 17 Jun 2001
Posts: 27256
Location: United States of America
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| Sat Jan 03, 2009 2:58 pm |
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We've been talking about this quite a bit in my household, I honestly think that as this worsens, many will be surprised by the stance America takes. And no, I'd rather not elaborate on that at this time, 
I find it all very sad, though. I read a study that was done on how very similar both peoples are. It was amazing.
-------signature-------
Some of us fall by the wayside
And some of us soar to the stars
And some of us sail through our troubles
And some have to live with our scars
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Puck
The Texan
Joined: 05 Jan 2004
Posts: 5596
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| Sat Jan 03, 2009 3:50 pm |
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It is very sad indeed. I feel badly for the civilians on both sides, who I am sure want nothing more than to live in peace and be left alone. That being said, I don't think anyone can blame Israel. They give the Palestinians Gaza, and then in return they get rockets fired back into Israel (3000 this year alone).
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Arellia
The Quiet One
Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Posts: 4425
Location: Dallas, TX
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| Sat Jan 03, 2009 4:09 pm |
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I think any country that messes with Israel is fairly short-sighted. Israel is known for being very forceful when pushed. The Israeli army is well-trained... I think they can handle it.
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Kyle Reese
Cadet Gunnery Sergeant
Joined: 21 Apr 2003
Posts: 5672
Location: The United States of America
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| Sat Jan 03, 2009 10:48 pm |
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Would've been posting here more earlier, but I was out of town for a while without internet access. It's been well over a day since I was able to check the news. Anyway, ground offensive has begun.
And an increased possibility of Hezbollah interference.
According to the IDF, Iran authorized Hezbollah to launch rockets into Israel in the event of a ground op, which has now begun. If they use Palestinian proxies inside Lebanon, Israel will retaliate, and Hezbollah will claim to be defending Lebanon. Sounds familiar.
Last edited by Kyle Reese on Mon Jan 05, 2009 2:56 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Theresa
Lux Mihi Deus
Joined: 17 Jun 2001
Posts: 27256
Location: United States of America
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| Sun Jan 04, 2009 12:15 pm |
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I've been reading a lot of articles and watched several slide shows this morning. I'm glad to see that no Israeli civilians are being hurt, and saddened to see that the only ones being hurt in Palestine are the children. Bias much? LINK (it's an AOL news link, so it may not work for everyone)
Some of the pictures I found the most horrifying were of the children all dressed up as terrorists with fake guns, bombs, etc... If you don't teach your children differently things will never change.
It's also being stated that Israels retaliation isn't "proportional", as if such a thing could exist. But I don't understand how it's not. The Hamas has been shooting rockets at Israel for years now, and Israel tried everything to stop it, even GAVE AWAY LAND, nothing has helped.
(sorry if I sound disjointed, while vicodin is GREAT for pain, it's not so great for mental clarity)
-------signature-------
Some of us fall by the wayside
And some of us soar to the stars
And some of us sail through our troubles
And some have to live with our scars
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robbiewebster
Rear Admiral
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
Posts: 2594
Location: Rochester, New York
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| Sun Jan 04, 2009 2:38 pm |
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Hamas is a terroist organization. They love to surround themselves with their own civilians, and they cry foul when the civilians are killed. Last friday 2 rockets fired from Gaza hit a school and a temple. I don't have any problem with Israel's retaliation. If Mexico or Canada started firing rockets into U.S. cities, what would you expect our government to do?
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Kyle Reese
Cadet Gunnery Sergeant
Joined: 21 Apr 2003
Posts: 5672
Location: The United States of America
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| Sun Jan 04, 2009 7:13 pm |
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One IDF soldier killed and 30+ wounded according to earlier reports, mostly by mortar fire. So far it seems like the IDF is doing most of the shooting, as they report 30-50 Hamas gunmen killed in the ground offensive so far. If this is the case, it seems Hamas' strategy may be to lay low and wait to strike the IDF forces in the flanks. Classic guerrilla warfare.
There have also been reports of three senior Hamas leaders killed in the first day of the ground offensive, along with at least two others killed in recent airstrikes. I'm amazed that with 700+ airstrikes launched the casualties are as low as they are, especially among civilians. And so many anti-Israel protestors are calling it genocide. If it was, it would be the clumsiest genocide in history.
Last edited by Kyle Reese on Mon Jan 05, 2009 2:55 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Theresa
Lux Mihi Deus
Joined: 17 Jun 2001
Posts: 27256
Location: United States of America
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| Mon Jan 05, 2009 12:48 pm |
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According to one Hamas, this is a "holocaust", a "one sided fight". (this was a quote from a news blurb on the radio.)
-------signature-------
Some of us fall by the wayside
And some of us soar to the stars
And some of us sail through our troubles
And some have to live with our scars
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Kyle Reese
Cadet Gunnery Sergeant
Joined: 21 Apr 2003
Posts: 5672
Location: The United States of America
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| Mon Jan 05, 2009 3:03 pm |
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Israeli troops apparently have even entered Gaza City, the last thing I was expecting. 100+ Palestinian gunmen killed on Monday, according to Israeli TV.
Even more amazing is that there has still only been 1 IDF KIA since the ground operation began. They've obviously taken every possible precaution that they could. There have been a number of injured in gunbattles with Hamas, but I would assume that most encounters are dealt with rather quickly by overwhelming firepower.
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Kyle Reese
Cadet Gunnery Sergeant
Joined: 21 Apr 2003
Posts: 5672
Location: The United States of America
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| Tue Jan 06, 2009 12:26 am |
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Apparently there was some communication error made during this gunfight, if an IDF tank destroyed a house they thought was occupied by Hamas.
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Kyle Reese
Cadet Gunnery Sergeant
Joined: 21 Apr 2003
Posts: 5672
Location: The United States of America
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| Tue Jan 06, 2009 4:20 pm |
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Along with another friendly fire incident overnight, 6 IDF soldiers have died since the ground offensive began.
| Quote: | 30 reported killed in blast at UN school
At least 30 people were reportedly killed and 53 wounded in an explosion in a UN-run school in the town of Jabalya in the northern Gaza Strip, according to Palestinians. The IDF issued a statement saying the school grounds were used by terrorists to fire mortar shells at the troops. According to the IDF, among the dead were members of a Hamas launching cell, including operatives Immad Abu Askar and Hassan Abu Askar.
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1231167272256&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull |
According to the IDF, they returned fire with their own mortars, which set off bombs inside of the school and leveled the building.
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Kyle Reese
Cadet Gunnery Sergeant
Joined: 21 Apr 2003
Posts: 5672
Location: The United States of America
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| Wed Jan 07, 2009 5:44 pm |
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So it seems even if another cease-fire is reached during this operation, there will only be another conflict in the future as long as Hamas controls Gaza.
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Kyle Reese
Cadet Gunnery Sergeant
Joined: 21 Apr 2003
Posts: 5672
Location: The United States of America
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| Thu Jan 08, 2009 2:36 pm |
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| Quote: | At least two Lebanon rockets hit north Israel; Hezbollah denies involvment
At least two Katyusha rockets fired from south Lebanon exploded in northern Israel on Thursday morning, leaving two people lightly wounded and a number of others suffering from shock.
The rockets struck the Nahariya area at around 8 A.M., one of them scoring a direct hit on the roof a nursing home in the city.
http://haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1053800.html |
I'd be willing to believe Hezbollah didn't personally fire those rockets. I'm not, however, willing to believe Hezbollah didn't order it.
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Kyle Reese
Cadet Gunnery Sergeant
Joined: 21 Apr 2003
Posts: 5672
Location: The United States of America
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| Sun Jan 11, 2009 10:33 pm |
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So Iran wants the fighting to continue? Perhaps they want Israel to look as bad as possible?
No surprise here. Fatah would love nothing more than for Hamas to be eliminated.
Looks like the coup de grace will come this week.
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Kyle Reese
Cadet Gunnery Sergeant
Joined: 21 Apr 2003
Posts: 5672
Location: The United States of America
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| Mon Jan 12, 2009 11:33 pm |
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This looks like the beginning of the third stage of OCL. With IDF troops now moving into Gaza City itself, this could also be the bloodiest stage of the battle for the IDF, Hamas, and Palestinian civilians. It all depends on how far the IDF is willing to go within the city itself.
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Kyle Reese
Cadet Gunnery Sergeant
Joined: 21 Apr 2003
Posts: 5672
Location: The United States of America
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| Thu Jan 15, 2009 8:54 pm |
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| Quote: | Hamas minister Siam dies in IAF strike
The IDF stepped up pressure on Hamas on Thursday, killing Interior Minister Said Siam and pushing deep into Gaza City as defense officials predicted a cease-fire would begin soon. Siam, the most senior Hamas political leader killed since Operation Cast Lead began on December 27, died along with his brother Iad, his son, and Gen. Salah Abu Shrakh, head of the Hamas General Security Service. The four were killed by an IAF strike on Iad Siam's home in Jabalya.
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1231950866724&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull |
Into Day 20 of the operation, and there are reports a truce is near and coming in the next few days. This isn't the first time we've heard that, however. If Hamas doesn't cease rocket fire after a "truce" is reached, and the IDF is still in Gaza, so much for that.
I'm amazed at the IDF's effectiveness in an urban environment. They've killed dozens, probably over a hundred Hamas gunmen since they moved into Gaza City, and haven't taken any KIA and only several dozen WIA themselves. With such efficiency, it would probably be easier for the IDF to wipe Hamas out than sign a truce and hope Hamas abides by it.
I'm surprised that the additional Katyusha rocket strikes from Lebanon and Israel's subsequent counterfire hasn't provoked Hezbollah. They must be trying to lure Israel into causing Lebanese casualties, or perhaps they're just allowing smaller organizations in southern Lebanon to fire rockets as they please, and Hezbollah itself is waiting for Imad Mughniyah's assassination anniversary to take its long-awaited "revenge".
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Kyle Reese
Cadet Gunnery Sergeant
Joined: 21 Apr 2003
Posts: 5672
Location: The United States of America
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| Sat Jan 17, 2009 4:36 pm |
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So, officially Operation Cast Lead is over. But it may not be "over" if Hamas continues to fire rockets into Israel. According to an IDF official, the operation would resume if hostilities from inside Gaza do not cease as well. If it kicks up again, I wonder what the prospects would be for yet another ceasefire?
However, if the ceasefire does succeed in full, Cast Lead will have been the most effective counter-terrorism offensive since the surge in Iraq. That would mean an immediate halt to rocket fire, an end to weapons smuggling from Egypt, and the disarming of Hamas.
This doesn't seem likely to me, I doubt Hamas and other factions in Gaza will cease fire. But we'll just have to wait and see over the coming days (or even hours).
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Kyle Reese
Cadet Gunnery Sergeant
Joined: 21 Apr 2003
Posts: 5672
Location: The United States of America
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| Sun Jan 18, 2009 1:52 pm |
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In other words, IDF troops are being withdrawn as rockets and mortars fly over their heads in the same direction. Hamas' reaction to the ceasefire was predictable, but I didn't think the IDF would begin its withdrawal the same day! Ridiculous. The IDF completely overwhelmed Hamas and there is no doubt of an IDF tactical victory in this conflict, but strategically it's a bit more difficult to say now.
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