| Did the Borg die in Endgame? |
| Yes |
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41% |
[ 31 ] |
| No |
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29% |
[ 22 ] |
| Maybe-It wasn't made clear |
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29% |
[ 22 ] |
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| Total Votes : 75 |
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| Author |
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IntrepidIsMe
Pimp Handed
Joined: 14 Jun 2002
Posts: 13057
Location: New York
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 Wed Jun 11, 2008 3:00 pm |
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In First Contact it was nearly the entire fleet against one cube and it took Picard's knowledge to destroy it. I'm guessing that the entire fleet has at least the firepower of the Enterprise D, hence there seems to be a difference.
-------signature-------
"Nelly, I am Heathcliff! He's always, always in my mind: not as a pleasure, any more than I am always a pleasure to myself, but as my own being."
-Wuthering Heights
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lionhead
Rear Admiral
Joined: 26 May 2004
Posts: 4020
Location: The Delta Quadrant (or not...)
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| Wed Jun 11, 2008 4:28 pm |
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Picard knew of a weak spot, they forcussed their firepower on it. Starfleet does have the firepower to destroy a cube, it just can't do it fast enough, or without many casualties.
-------signature-------
Never explain comedy or satire or the ironic comment. Those who get it, get it. Those who don't, never will. -Michael Moore
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Pyro114
Lieutenant, Junior Grade
Joined: 29 May 2008
Posts: 99
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| Wed Jun 11, 2008 4:33 pm |
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That weird? How can the Ent-D cause serious damage to it's outer hull (in what 30 min?) and it takes the entire fleet (-the sovereign, - the entreprise) 3 hours just to create a weak spot???? Right.... 
Off topic: this really is the only active discussion on the entire forum aint it?
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robbiewebster
Rear Admiral
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
Posts: 2594
Location: Rochester, New York
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| Wed Jun 11, 2008 6:07 pm |
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But wasn't the weak spot there all along and Picard just informed the fleet of it? Idk, I'm not 100% sure.
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IntrepidIsMe
Pimp Handed
Joined: 14 Jun 2002
Posts: 13057
Location: New York
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| Wed Jun 11, 2008 6:15 pm |
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If the Enterprise D was able to cause "very serious damage" with a few torpedoes (as stated earlier), I'm guessing an hour + pounding from the entire fleet would no doubt destroy the cube, according to your logic. That was my point, at least.
-------signature-------
"Nelly, I am Heathcliff! He's always, always in my mind: not as a pleasure, any more than I am always a pleasure to myself, but as my own being."
-Wuthering Heights
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robbiewebster
Rear Admiral
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
Posts: 2594
Location: Rochester, New York
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| Wed Jun 11, 2008 6:19 pm |
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I see what your saying. I was just saying that the fleet didn't create the weak spot.
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Pyro114
Lieutenant, Junior Grade
Joined: 29 May 2008
Posts: 99
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| Thu Jun 12, 2008 3:06 am |
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But thats beside the point.
Point is if Ent-D can cause seriouis damage with some torpedoes, how come the fleet cant destroy the darn thing.
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lionhead
Rear Admiral
Joined: 26 May 2004
Posts: 4020
Location: The Delta Quadrant (or not...)
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| Thu Jun 12, 2008 3:33 am |
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| Pyro114 wrote: | That weird? How can the Ent-D cause serious damage to it's outer hull (in what 30 min?) and it takes the entire fleet (-the sovereign, - the entreprise) 3 hours just to create a weak spot???? Right....
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Firstly, it was the Enteprise-E.
Actually its the other way around. The entire fleet caused serious damage to its outer hull(in about 3 hours of combat) but it took Picard to show the fleet a weakspot in the cube. Afterwhich they focussed their firepower on it to eventually destroy the cube.
next to that, the Enterprise is the only Sovereign class starship in the fleet(don't know where the USS Sovereign was at the time), thus the only starship armed with quantum torpedo's. Those could indeed do a lot more damage to the cube, if it would have been enough to destroy the cube i do not know. They where able to take out the Sphere pretty easily though, thats good news  .
Also, with a very much weakened Cube, a few quantum torpedo's(which they did fire) along with the all the other ships in the fleet would definitly destroy it.
I remember from one star trek game(i think it was Armada II) a borg cube would get annihilated by a Starfleet ship armed with quantum torpedo's.
http://images.wikia.com/memoryalpha/en/images/b/b9/Enterprise-E_firing_quantum_torpedoes.jpg
[Edited for Hotlinking an image - Curtis]
-------signature-------
Never explain comedy or satire or the ironic comment. Those who get it, get it. Those who don't, never will. -Michael Moore
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Pyro114
Lieutenant, Junior Grade
Joined: 29 May 2008
Posts: 99
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| Thu Jun 12, 2008 9:46 am |
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No, that is NOT true.
I'm 200% sure the first time they encountered the Borg, on ST: TNG, it was with the Ent-D.
And I already said minus the Sovereign.
On quantum torpedo's:
-The Defiant has quantum torps (source: wiki)
-In ST-Bridge Commander, Akira's have quantums (although they don't have it in the series I think).
-There where six steamrunners involved in the battle who actually carry tri-cobalt torpedos (that's the equivalent of present day artillery, alot more punch than quantums).
Then there's this:
USS Appalachia NCC-52136 Steamrunner-class
USS Bozeman NCC-1941 Soyuz-class
USS Budapest NCC-64923 Norway-class
USS Defiant NX-74205 Defiant-class
USS Endeavour NCC-71805 Nebula-class
USS Enterprise NCC-1701-E Sovereign-class
USS Lexington NCC-61832 Nebula-class
USS Madison Unknown Unknown
USS Thunderchild NCC-63549 Akira-class
USS Yeager NCC-61947 Saber-class
And at least:
2 unnamed Oberth-class starships
2 unnamed Miranda-class starships
4 additional unnamed Saber-class starships
2 additional unnamed Akira-class starships
2 additional unnamed Norway-class starships
5 additional unnamed Steamrunner-class starships
1 unnamed Nebula-class starship
1 other unnamed starship
In Armada II a Borg cube would easly fall under the combined fire of those ships, even without the Ent-E.
-------signature-------
"Don't tell people how to do things, tell them what to do and let them surprise you with their results." - George S. Patton
"The journey is more important then the end...or the start."
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IntrepidIsMe
Pimp Handed
Joined: 14 Jun 2002
Posts: 13057
Location: New York
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| Thu Jun 12, 2008 11:13 am |
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| robbiewebster wrote: | | I see what your saying. I was just saying that the fleet didn't create the weak spot. |
I was only responding to the conversation, I should have worded it better. Sorry.
-------signature-------
"Nelly, I am Heathcliff! He's always, always in my mind: not as a pleasure, any more than I am always a pleasure to myself, but as my own being."
-Wuthering Heights
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lionhead
Rear Admiral
Joined: 26 May 2004
Posts: 4020
Location: The Delta Quadrant (or not...)
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| Thu Jun 12, 2008 1:49 pm |
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| Pyro114 wrote: | No, that is NOT true.
I'm 200% sure the first time they encountered the Borg, on ST: TNG, it was with the Ent-D.
And I already said minus the Sovereign.
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Oh, you mean the first time they encountered the borg in TNG.
Well, the difference between the first contact with the borg in "Q who" and the second attack on earth in "First Contact" is 8 years. In that time the borg had been able to adapt themselves to federation weapons, next to that they had already encountered the federation fleet at the battle of Wolf 359 8 years earlier.
Before that battle, they had already sufficient data on how much firepower the Federation fleet would have, and they adapted to it accordingly. In that battle it could withstand torpedo's very well, as it had adapted to them. I don't think they did as much damage to the cube at Wolf 359, not nearly asm uch as they did at the battle for sector 001. Mostly because they wheren't prepared for them the first time. The second time a lot better(the USS defiant)
-------signature-------
Never explain comedy or satire or the ironic comment. Those who get it, get it. Those who don't, never will. -Michael Moore
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Pyro114
Lieutenant, Junior Grade
Joined: 29 May 2008
Posts: 99
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| Thu Jun 12, 2008 4:42 pm |
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Yeah, and 8 years later we have Quantum and tricobalt torpedoes. You said it yourself, a ship armed with quantums would pwn a cube big time and tricobalt do 5 times the damage of a quantum....so?
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robbiewebster
Rear Admiral
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
Posts: 2594
Location: Rochester, New York
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| Thu Jun 12, 2008 9:24 pm |
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| IntrepidIsMe wrote: | | robbiewebster wrote: | | I see what your saying. I was just saying that the fleet didn't create the weak spot. |
I was only responding to the conversation, I should have worded it better. Sorry. |
you don't need to apologize, I understand what you were trying to say. 
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lionhead
Rear Admiral
Joined: 26 May 2004
Posts: 4020
Location: The Delta Quadrant (or not...)
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| Fri Jun 13, 2008 2:48 pm |
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| Pyro114 wrote: | | Yeah, and 8 years later we have Quantum and tricobalt torpedoes. You said it yourself, a ship armed with quantums would pwn a cube big time and tricobalt do 5 times the damage of a quantum....so? |
....so, what? your not actually referring to anything i've said.
There where no tricobalt weapons present in the fleet when the borg attacked(though they did exist as the second attack on earth by the Borg happened 2 years after Voyager wasl ost in the Delta Quadrant, as well as aftr cetain events in DS9).
and only the Defiant carried Quantum torpedo's. Don't know if they fired any.
-------signature-------
Never explain comedy or satire or the ironic comment. Those who get it, get it. Those who don't, never will. -Michael Moore
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Pyro114
Lieutenant, Junior Grade
Joined: 29 May 2008
Posts: 99
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| Sat Jun 14, 2008 12:26 pm |
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No, I was refering to info found on memory-alpha
| Quote: | 5 additional unnamed Steamrunner-class starships
USS Appalachia NCC-52136 Steamrunner-class |
Steamrunners carry tri-cobalt weapons.
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Janeway_kate
Captain
Joined: 03 Feb 2002
Posts: 714
Location: In the snow
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| Mon Jul 14, 2008 9:14 pm |
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There were 13 hubs they only destroyed one!
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Manitou
Ensign, Junior Grade
Joined: 17 Sep 2007
Posts: 43
Location: michigan, bob
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| Sat Jul 19, 2008 12:50 pm DATA |
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Before they plugged into 'Data's' head the fleet couldn't do any significant damage to the cube because it regenerated. He used his knowledge to breakthrough the Collective's communications module and rendered the cube defenseless.
What I remember is that the low level frequency the Collective uses also has a nature of an optronic data-stream. This means the borg's link is not just for info. but it controls and drugs the drone to follow commands.
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Lord Borg
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 27 May 2003
Posts: 11214
Location: Vulcan Capital City, Vulcan
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| Sat Jul 19, 2008 2:55 pm |
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| lionhead wrote: | | Pyro114 wrote: | | Yeah, and 8 years later we have Quantum and tricobalt torpedoes. You said it yourself, a ship armed with quantums would pwn a cube big time and tricobalt do 5 times the damage of a quantum....so? |
....so, what? your not actually referring to anything i've said.
There where no tricobalt weapons present in the fleet when the borg attacked(though they did exist as the second attack on earth by the Borg happened 2 years after Voyager wasl ost in the Delta Quadrant, as well as aftr cetain events in DS9).
and only the Defiant carried Quantum torpedo's. Don't know if they fired any. |
The Enterprise-E was specifically said to be carrying Quantum torpedoes in Star Trek: First Contact, even then the ship needed the help of whatever vessel could still fire weapons to destroy the cube. As for preparation for the second attack? In a sense, perhaps due to the fact that starships (including the Defiant) were being made with more powerful weaponry, but the entire fleet fought the Cube from the Typhon sector, they were unable to stop it there and had to fight it (probably non stop) alll the way to Sector 001 where they finally destroyed them (or so they thought) near Earth.
Back to the topic at hand, I refuse to believe that the Borg were completely destroyed at the end of "Endgame" simply put, at least from the POV of TNG and FC, they are to powerful. Yes, the Queen was infected, yes the 'source' (if that's the proper term to use) of the collective seemed to have been infected, but as the Queen once said, we're thinking in two dimensional terms. The Borg have shown before the ability to quarantine the infected drones so to speak, and separate them from the rest of the hive mind. The Queen had also been shown to issue more orders as she fell to the floor, who's to say that unheard order didn't involve some sort of quarantine protocol, where the uninfected and the infected were divided into two separate groups?
I feel the argument that the virus, in this case, being from the future is weak as it's not that far into the future where it originated from. Considering that it was set (the present) in 2378, and this alternate future was something like 2404, it's a 26 year difference, and the Borg had already shown to be advanced technologically far more then the Federation or several other empires encountered during Trek.
In short, while I will admit they were most likely severely damaged, and probably required several years (give or take) to recover from it, I doubt the virus killed them all. Not because it's from the future or Janeway did it.
-------signature-------
When you cried I'd wipe away all of your tears
When you'd scream I'd fight away all of your fears
And I held your hand through all of these years
But you still have
All of me
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lionhead
Rear Admiral
Joined: 26 May 2004
Posts: 4020
Location: The Delta Quadrant (or not...)
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| Fri Jul 25, 2008 3:30 am |
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| Lord Borg wrote: |
The Enterprise-E was specifically said to be carrying Quantum torpedoes in Star Trek: First Contact, even then the ship needed the help of whatever vessel could still fire weapons to destroy the cube. As for preparation for the second attack? In a sense, perhaps due to the fact that starships (including the Defiant) were being made with more powerful weaponry, but the entire fleet fought the Cube from the Typhon sector, they were unable to stop it there and had to fight it (probably non stop) alll the way to Sector 001 where they finally destroyed them (or so they thought) near Earth.
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Well if you look back at my last posts you see that i know the enteprise-E carried Quantum torpedo's. Specifically mentioning that only the Defiant class and Sovereign class starships carried Quantum torpedo's.
On a side note; I don't think the fleet would have been able to stop the cube without Picard and the Enterprise-E. Not even if the USS Sovereign itself would have been part of it.
| Quote: | | but as the Queen once said, we're thinking in two dimensional terms. |
3 dimensional terms actually.
Also on a side note; when data asked her if she was their leader all she said was "I bring order to chaos".
I agree with you about everything else though.
-------signature-------
Never explain comedy or satire or the ironic comment. Those who get it, get it. Those who don't, never will. -Michael Moore
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deltaflyer3
Lieutenant
Joined: 11 Aug 2008
Posts: 137
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| Mon Aug 11, 2008 7:54 pm |
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i think the borg queen was right
since the future janeway came back in time and destroyed the queen before it might have happened her future never happened so IT never happend
but like the normal theme with time travel
never try to under stand it 
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Warning: Last chance to be a hero Doctor, get going!
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Spartan 688
Ensign
Joined: 11 Nov 2007
Posts: 57
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| Tue Aug 12, 2008 2:41 pm |
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i am pretty sure that the borg are in the new star trek online game............. don't know 100% though
-------signature-------
�The best political weapon is the weapon of terror. Cruelty commands respect. Men may hate us. But, we don't ask for their love; only for their fear.�
---SP�RT��--
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Spartan 688
Ensign
Joined: 11 Nov 2007
Posts: 57
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| Tue Aug 12, 2008 2:52 pm |
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| Pyro114 wrote: | No, that is NOT true.
I'm 200% sure the first time they encountered the Borg, on ST: TNG, it was with the Ent-D.
And I already said minus the Sovereign.
On quantum torpedo's:
-The Defiant has quantum torps (source: wiki)
-In ST-Bridge Commander, Akira's have quantums (although they don't have it in the series I think).
-There where six steamrunners involved in the battle who actually carry tri-cobalt torpedos (that's the equivalent of present day artillery, alot more punch than quantums).
Then there's this:
USS Appalachia NCC-52136 Steamrunner-class
USS Bozeman NCC-1941 Soyuz-class
USS Budapest NCC-64923 Norway-class
USS Defiant NX-74205 Defiant-class
USS Endeavour NCC-71805 Nebula-class
USS Enterprise NCC-1701-E Sovereign-class
USS Lexington NCC-61832 Nebula-class
USS Madison Unknown Unknown
USS Thunderchild NCC-63549 Akira-class
USS Yeager NCC-61947 Saber-class
And at least:
2 unnamed Oberth-class starships
2 unnamed Miranda-class starships
4 additional unnamed Saber-class starships
2 additional unnamed Akira-class starships
2 additional unnamed Norway-class starships
5 additional unnamed Steamrunner-class starships
1 unnamed Nebula-class starship
1 other unnamed starship
In Armada II a Borg cube would easly fall under the combined fire of those ships, even without the Ent-E. |
that is a video game..........................if you want to take videos as a source of information then a vulcan named terel created the borg (star trek legacy)
and how is present day artillery more of a punch then quantum torpedos....
-------signature-------
�The best political weapon is the weapon of terror. Cruelty commands respect. Men may hate us. But, we don't ask for their love; only for their fear.�
---SP�RT��--
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deltaflyer3
Lieutenant
Joined: 11 Aug 2008
Posts: 137
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| Mon Nov 03, 2008 5:35 pm |
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i dont belive the borg died but its very complicated
first the death of the borg queen in First Contact is different from the death in end game.
in first contact it was the body of the borg queen that died and who knows maby when the nuerel patterns stop a nother queen activates. but because it was only the body its not much of a loss.
in fEnd Game it was a nuerelgenic (sorry i cant spell  ) virus meaning that the entire collective hive mind is affected. That means that all borg connected would die so if another queen was activated she would die too.
But i did say that i belive that the borg werent destroyed.
two words: Unimatrix Zero
all those borg who werent connected to the borg hive mind wernt destroyed sure tecnicly they arnt borg but hey there part robot part organic what else could they be
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lionhead
Rear Admiral
Joined: 26 May 2004
Posts: 4020
Location: The Delta Quadrant (or not...)
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| Wed Nov 05, 2008 4:15 pm |
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| deltaflyer3 wrote: | | That means that all borg connected would die |
Never said. No proof of that. all Admiral janeway said it was enough to "bring chaos to order".
| Quote: | But i did say that i belive that the borg werent destroyed.
two words: Unimatrix Zero
all those borg who werent connected to the borg hive mind wernt destroyed sure tecnicly they arnt borg but hey there part robot part organic what else could they be |
Those indivuals where Borg drones, they where just able to regain their individuality in a glitch in the collective hive mind. But they wheren't disconnected from the hive mind. Anyway, i think most are killed.
-------signature-------
Never explain comedy or satire or the ironic comment. Those who get it, get it. Those who don't, never will. -Michael Moore
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deltaflyer3
Lieutenant
Joined: 11 Aug 2008
Posts: 137
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| Wed Feb 25, 2009 9:53 pm |
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| Pyro114 wrote: | No, that is NOT true.
I'm 200% sure the first time they encountered the Borg, on ST: TNG, it was with the Ent-D.
And I already said minus the Sovereign.
On quantum torpedo's:
-The Defiant has quantum torps (source: wiki)
-In ST-Bridge Commander, Akira's have quantums (although they don't have it in the series I think).
-There where six steamrunners involved in the battle who actually carry tri-cobalt torpedos (that's the equivalent of present day artillery, alot more punch than quantums).
Then there's this:
USS Appalachia NCC-52136 Steamrunner-class
USS Bozeman NCC-1941 Soyuz-class
USS Budapest NCC-64923 Norway-class
USS Defiant NX-74205 Defiant-class
USS Endeavour NCC-71805 Nebula-class
USS Enterprise NCC-1701-E Sovereign-class
USS Lexington NCC-61832 Nebula-class
USS Madison Unknown Unknown
USS Thunderchild NCC-63549 Akira-class
USS Yeager NCC-61947 Saber-class
And at least:
2 unnamed Oberth-class starships
2 unnamed Miranda-class starships
4 additional unnamed Saber-class starships
2 additional unnamed Akira-class starships
2 additional unnamed Norway-class starships
5 additional unnamed Steamrunner-class starships
1 unnamed Nebula-class starship
1 other unnamed starship
In Armada II a Borg cube would easly fall under the combined fire of those ships, even without the Ent-E. |
im confused i thought we were talking about first contact because in that movie it was the enterprise e
-------signature-------
Warning: Last chance to be a hero Doctor, get going!
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