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An interesting Contradiction...
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Syzygy
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Joined: 17 Feb 2008
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Location: Starfleet Academy

PostMon Feb 18, 2008 8:48 am    

Another possibility that wasn't explored: if the Kazon got replicator tech -- or any real concessions at all from Voyager -- they would have leaned on Janeway for even more. The Kazon were bullies above all else.

I'll wager that the more they got, the more they would have wanted.


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DD43
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Joined: 08 Mar 2008
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PostSat Mar 08, 2008 9:40 am    

Having just watched all 7 seasons in one go I can confirm that there are a HUGE number of contradictions. Which I guess is somewhat understandable considering the longevity of the programme and the subject matter.

For example, I can remember on more than one occasion when Janeway requested 'All Senior Officers please report to the Bridge'. At the time Seven of Nine was in the astrometrics lab with Chakotay. They BOTH made their way to the Bridge. I thought at the time, 'did I miss something' because (A) Seven does not have a RANK, and (B) most certainly did NOT attend Starfleet Academy!

Seven was also always at morning briefings which should and would have been dedicated to COMMISSIONED OFFICERS, which again did NOT include SEVEN, plus of course NEELIX, who was brought on board as a NAVIGATOR. Later, even the DOCTOR began attending morning briefings!

There was also a huge irony on having Neelix as a 'Moral Officer'. Mainly because he had NO RANK, but was often seen TELLING crew (including Ensigns, Junior Officers) what to do ! How would these young officers have reacted having this alien being considered when there were COMMAND decisions to be made? Especially considering the Young Officers would have dedicated a number of years to have earned their ranks!?

There would have been resentment toward him !

Remember at the end of season 1 Or was it 2? when the Kason stole Voyager? Neelix 'ordered' an Ensign to collect the bones which were outside the cave entrance.

Why didn't any of the crew question his authority aboard the ship, especially in view of the fact that HE was directly to blame for the death of the Ensign !

I can also remember when the young former Borg asked Seven if he could work on the Bridge. She replied, 'you have not had Starfleet training' Well, Seven, neither have YOU ! or indeed NEELIX, or the highly irritating DOCTOR, who did not seem to be able to stay away from the Bridge in the last 2 seasons!

I find it hard watching the final season, most because The Doctor features almost in EVERY darn episode ! He is a EMERGENCY MEDICAL HOLOGRAM, and they should have ensure that he STAYED as one, and NOTHING else.


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Kathryn_Janeway218
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Joined: 21 Feb 2008
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PostMon Mar 17, 2008 11:06 pm    

I think that you are taking this a little far. There were many exeptions on voyager mainly because they were in the DELTA QUADRANT!!! 75,000 LIGHT YEARS FROM THE FEDERATION!!! There were bound to be some contradictions.

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Syzygy
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PostFri Mar 21, 2008 2:19 am    

DD43 wrote:
Having just watched all 7 seasons in one go I can confirm that there are a HUGE number of contradictions. Which I guess is somewhat understandable considering the longevity of the programme and the subject matter.

For example, I can remember on more than one occasion when Janeway requested 'All Senior Officers please report to the Bridge'. At the time Seven of Nine was in the astrometrics lab with Chakotay. They BOTH made their way to the Bridge. I thought at the time, 'did I miss something' because (A) Seven does not have a RANK, and (B) most certainly did NOT attend Starfleet Academy!


Many times I have wondered how the writers missed this one. Seven should have been given a rank, to help her integrate with the crew. I would have made her Chief Astrometrics Officer, similar to Miles O'Brien being the "Transporter Chief" on the Enterprise D.

Also, even if someone hasn't attended the Academy, the Captain can give them an "acting" rank. In time, Seven could have been made an "acting" Lieutenant, and Chief Science Officer, because, really, who knew more science than her?

Quote:
Seven was also always at morning briefings which should and would have been dedicated to COMMISSIONED OFFICERS, which again did NOT include SEVEN, plus of course NEELIX, who was brought on board as a NAVIGATOR. Later, even the DOCTOR began attending morning briefings!


I think you're wrong about the Doctor. Hologram or not, he was the acting Chief Medical Officer. That position is always part of the senior staff.

Neelix is more complicated. What can you say? I would have entered him in the logs as Ambassador of the Talaxians. But yeah, Neelix and Kes attending the briefings was a stretch. The writers should have tred more carefully here.

Quote:
There was also a huge irony on having Neelix as a 'Moral Officer'. Mainly because he had NO RANK, but was often seen TELLING crew (including Ensigns, Junior Officers) what to do ! How would these young officers have reacted having this alien being considered when there were COMMAND decisions to be made? Especially considering the Young Officers would have dedicated a number of years to have earned their ranks!?

There would have been resentment toward him !

Remember at the end of season 1 Or was it 2? when the Kason stole Voyager? Neelix 'ordered' an Ensign to collect the bones which were outside the cave entrance.


In that episode, Janeway specifically put him in charge of a squad, so that's why he was able to given Ensign Hogan orders.

Quote:

Why didn't any of the crew question his authority aboard the ship, especially in view of the fact that HE was directly to blame for the death of the Ensign !


Well, nobody could have guessed that there was a giant serpent in the cave. And really, the ecology of that world was so poor and desolate, creatures that size shouldn't have been able to survive. The Voyager people were eating worms and roots, and here's this giant, dinosaur sized serpent. What does it eat when people don't walk in front of its cave?

Quote:
I can also remember when the young former Borg asked Seven if he could work on the Bridge. She replied, 'you have not had Starfleet training' Well, Seven, neither have YOU ! or indeed NEELIX, or the highly irritating DOCTOR, who did not seem to be able to stay away from the Bridge in the last 2 seasons!


Well, Seven was usually working in Astrometrics when she started. Neelix worked in the mess hall. As for the Doctor, he's programmed as a starfleet officer anyway. And he was the acting CMO.

Quote:
I find it hard watching the final season, most because The Doctor features almost in EVERY darn episode ! He is a EMERGENCY MEDICAL HOLOGRAM, and they should have ensure that he STAYED as one, and NOTHING else.


I think you're wrong here. The idea that AI can emerge into full sentience is a huge theme in Star Trek. He started out as the Tin Man and found a heart. My favorite episodes include the Doctor: Real Life, Someone To Watch Over Me, etc.


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lifeguide
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Joined: 27 Nov 2007
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PostTue Mar 25, 2008 9:17 pm    

People are writing, that those of us who are saying she did the wrong thing by not using the array to get back to the alpha quadrant are not thinking of the consequsences (therefore we are selfish for not thinkg of the consequences towards the Occampa).

I think you may have a small point but what about when the Cardassians conquered Bajor and the federation did nothing or what about when the Remans overthrew the Romulan senate (the democratically elected senate), or when the communities in the DMZ were told to move from thier homes or live under Cardassian rule.

The Federation, and Starfleet are organisations which require people who can make decisions which will have huge and comprehensive implications on communities and sometimes whole worlds, and in the case of the alliance with the Borg whole quadrants and even other levels of space.

I am all for Janeway not using the array to get home, but do not use the prime directive as your reason, the reason was Janeway's own personal view.

I can not imagine Kirk, Picard, Sissko, Worf, Jellico, Admiral Paris or any other senior officer doing what Janeway did.

I think Spock is the only one who would of at least had a think about it and I suppose Data would of gone by the book.

The Kazon were already terrorising the Occampa and if Voyager had not of come along the Occampa only had 5 more years of the energy the caretaker gave them left.

So who is playing with the natural order of things?


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