An interesting Contradiction...

[squiggy]

In the very first episode of Voyager, Janeway refuses to give the Kazon replicator technology.
This could have aleviated so much of the problems they had in the future.
This could have saved millions of lives.

Later on, however, Janeway gave the herogen Holographic technology, knowing full well that it would be used strictly for recreational purposes.

[Aryeh]

NOT AT ALL !

Replicators in the hands of a barbaric low technology race could be, and is very dangerous because it can give them things and weapons they would otherwise not have and we have know way of controlling who they will give or sell it to.

But the hirogens are already technologically advanced and are already violent, the captain gave them the hallow technology, after the hirogens released them, as an alternative option for hunting and killing.

As captain it is her job to look at the big picture and the circumstance of the issue to consider all viable options. Giving the kazons replicator technology is not one of them. :wink

[squiggy]

However, she specifically states that she would not share federation technology with anyone, several times throughout the first seasons.

[robbiewebster]

She saved so many lives by giving away the holo-technology. She had to do it. The replicators could be extremely dangerous in the wrong hands.

[squiggy]

[TrekkieMage]

But, you saw what the Kazon did with the replicator they stole? It would have been disasterous.

The replicators would have caused more death and destruction.

The holographic technology prevented death and destruction.

The Hirogen also wanted the technology for the betterment of their species and to recover their culture (beyond the hunt), whereas the Kazon just wanted to become the most powerful sect.

[Aryeh]

[Debra]

I think Janeway didn't do anything wrong. In her circumstances, she did what she thought was right. She couldn't give the Kazons the replicator technology because they wo uld have terrorize innocent species with it. When she gave the Hirogen the hologram technology I guess it was to help them in some way. Janeway may have some weird ways to do the right thing, but she did good. Not saying she is all that or anything.

[Ntypical]

[antipodean-opaleye]

remember years have gone by for Janeway between these two events. And i really don't see what else they could have done in that situation.

[JupiterPrime]

It would have meant an end to having to revisit the Kazon from teh very first episode - something Im sure the producers wished they could turn the clock back on and given it to them.

The Kazon sucked

[antipodean-opaleye]

oh yeah i agree. I like the episodes so much better once they get away from the Kazon. But i honestly don't think giving the technology would have stoped all of that... they would have just come after voyager wanting more... and more.

[lifeguide]

I think you are all missing the point.

Janeway was willing and ready to sacrifice her ship and crew to capture the Equinox, therefore ignoring Chakotay's obviously correct advice that the main priority was to seek peace with the lifeforms and then at the beginning she ignores a particular action that would of helped her crew because of her ideals (personal ideals should not be at the mercy of a law as Picard and Sissko have shown many times when violating the PD.

Janeways ideals are fine when she is talking but her actions do demonstrate a carfree attitude when it suits her.

Janeway did the right thing in giving the technology to the Hirogen but the wrong thing in not giving it to the Kazon (do not forget it was only disastrous for the Kazon because they had not been taught properly in its implementation).

And I do not see what would of changed the Kazon were obviously the main powers in that part of space anyway, they were torturing and combative with many worlds so what would it of changed.

Also the Hirogen gaining the holo technology was not innocent, as has been pointed out before they did imprison and torture the Voyager crew even though they had holograms to fight.

I still can not see what made Janeway correct for not giving it to the Kazon and giving it to the Hirogen.

[Valathous]

[MakeItSo]

I think it might have been because during the first 2-3 seasons involving the Kazon, she was still going a lot by her "Starfleet principles" as she said in one episode and I'm sure was trying hard to go by the Prime Directive but by the time they were lost even longer in the Delta Quadrant and even more of the reality stuck in that they might really be out there for a VERY long time, probably changed her mind about a lot of things especially when it came with dealing with alien races. You have to deal with extreme situations like that where it comes between you going by the book just to appease Starfleet or trying to keep everyone alive, then I think you'd try hard to do the latter. Not that she didn't ever have any risky or dangerous decisions but I guess you gotta be real choosy with what you decide to do or not do. However what Ransom did with the crew of the Equinox to survive was terrible.

[Cathexis]

I think I would agree best with MakeItSo on this one. At the start of the series, Janeway is one kind of person. Who she is as a person changes (for the better, I believe), as well as her hair length, etc.....she becomes more willing to bend for the circumstances in order to save and protect her crew. She becomes more human.....and not just a Starfleet Captain, but a guide. She makes many decisions that may contradict each other, but if you were in her place...how would you have done it ?


Aside from that, it's all quite moot anyway, for obvious reasons.

[lifeguide]

I understand and agree with what you are saying that she becomes a different and possibly better captain for being stranded for so long.

However that proves my point, further.

Picard and Sissko do not and to my knowledge never have thought of the Prime Directive as an absolute which needs to be upheld in every situation no matter what.

Janeway did think that it was a law or an absolute so her personal interpretation of the PD got her crew stranded, in my opinion that is bad captaincy.

As everyone knows even when dealing with things like criminal activity and different community issues you can not treat every situation similarly due to a wide range of variables.

[Sonic74205]

YOU ALL HAVE IT WRONG

Yes Janeway did DID refuse the Kazon replicator technology and she DID give the hirogen holo technology. In another episode (cant remember the name) at the begining she says to an alien "Try the replicators, they're very popular this month" In the cases where she is giving them technology is BREAKING THE PRIME DIRECTIVE and that is wrong and if she did that if she was home she would have been punished accordingly. She knew this and sometimes mentions she has broken the prime directive. But thats just it, she isnt home. In those situations it would have meant give them the technology or be destroyed so she made a decision there an then as a lone captain with just one ship. Not as an upstanding starfleet captain within the federation boarders.

In the first episode it was possible they would be home soon and in the rest of the first season everything was still very new to them, it hadn't really sank in they were all alone. Janeway was quite rigid and having trouble adapting. Thats why back then she didnt give out technology and later on she does.

[lifeguide]

So in other words Sonic we all have it right.

We have all said that she was a different captain when she came through the transwarp conduit and was met by the fleet, than the one that was stranded, but that is my point.

Her easy life in the alpha quadrant was one which made her feel that starfleet prtocol and the PD was this almost divine law and that it should be upheld everytime , without considering the consequences.

As you quite correctly stated she and the rest of the crew probably did think they were going to be rescued quickly but that still does not excuse her captaincy.

A captain should not be so narrow minded that they see guidelines to behaviour and regulations of conduct as absolutes, but only guidelines.

IMO any captian or business owner or government official who allows a law to be the sole reason for doing something is not a leader bu a follower, therefore they do not deserve to be in a position of leadership.

[MakeItSo]

[Debra]

makeitso wrote

[Founder]

The most obvious answer is : Janeway is hypocritcal and easily the worst Starfleet captain to "grace" us with her appearance.

She wantonly violated the Prime Directive when it suited her and her crews at times, while simultaneously chastising her crewmen for not obeying the PD to the letter.

Many say that she "grew" as a captain. Grew? In the beginning she upheld to her beliefs (if they are good beliefs is debatable), but later on she decided to bend the rules to expedite matters in the name of her crew's survival. Funny, she didn't seem to care at all about the fate of her crew in episode I. Yet later on, she suddenly is ok with breaking rules to get them through a hostile alien's space just a bit faster. Which is it? If I was Chakotay and witnessed her breaking rules later on, I'd have demanded to know why she couldn't have simply done that from day one. I would have wanted to know why it was suddenly acceptable to do this.

The bigger mystery is why the VOY crew never commited mutiny against Janeway.

[MakeItSo]

No one knows what they would have done in her situation. So to sit here and say well she made terrible decisions, she should have done this, she should have not done that, is not quite fair. And as far as my opinion on the worst captain to ever grace our pressence was Ransom but then again, who's to judge? Who's to also say what Picard, Kirk, or Sisko would have done in her situation alone out there. Would they have done similar things, made things better, or made things worse? No one knows. And it sounds way too black and white to think that way. But then again, that's just my opinion. Maybe it's because I'm such a big fan of the new Battlestar: Galactica series that I have a very different view on what people do in certain situations and I never try to think too absolute. And their situation was MUCH worse than Voyager's.

If you haven't already seen the show, you'd probably like BSG if you like DS9 a lot Founder. It was created by Ron D. Moore who was involved with DS9 for a while. I think you'd like it if you like the dark stories that DS9 goes into.

[squiggy]

I told you it was interesting.
random speculatioon:

If Kirk was in the same situation:
He'd either try and cheat the Kazon into a bad deal or pull some other nifty trick on them. And odds are good he may not have made Janeway's choice of abandoning themselves there in the Delta Quadrant to save the Ocampa.

If Picard were there:
Opera would spread through the quadrant, bringing peace and joy.((Thanks Worf...))
Not to mention the whole problem with finding 'prune juice' so far from home...
Not to mention Picard's whole issue with the borg in general... it would almost have been more interesting. ALMOST. Not quite.

[jonycold]