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Avenger
Junior Cadet
Joined: 26 Apr 2007
Posts: 19
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 Mon Sep 03, 2007 5:44 pm Troi's Promotion |
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Was anyone else as angered as I was when Deanna Troi got promoted to commander over Data? Don't get me wrong, I think Troi should have become a full commander at some point, just not before Data. Data has loads more field experience than Troi, possesses greater expertise in almost all areas, and is a more capable leader. What the heck were the writers thinking?
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TrekkieMage
Office Junkie
Joined: 17 Oct 2004
Posts: 5335
Location: Hiding
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| Mon Sep 03, 2007 6:41 pm |
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I think there also been the factor of Data being an android. I think they hesitated to give him the rank of Commander because there was still a lot of controversey over whether or not he was sentient and capable of making the personel decisions needed of a commanding officer.
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Avenger
Junior Cadet
Joined: 26 Apr 2007
Posts: 19
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| Mon Sep 03, 2007 7:51 pm |
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| TrekkieMage wrote: | | I think there also been the factor of Data being an android. I think they hesitated to give him the rank of Commander because there was still a lot of controversey over whether or not he was sentient and capable of making the personel decisions needed of a commanding officer. |
I would have bought that logic if Troi had been promoted during the first two seasons, before "The Measure of a Man." In that episode, Data's sentience was established in court. By the time "Thine Own Self" (wherein Troi was promoted) aired, the case determining Data's sentience was already five years in the past. Moreover, Data had proven himself a skilled commander in "Redemption, Part II," over two years before "Thine Own Self."
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TrekkieMage
Office Junkie
Joined: 17 Oct 2004
Posts: 5335
Location: Hiding
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| Mon Sep 03, 2007 8:02 pm |
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Bureaucracy isn't always exactly expedient. A case may be settled in court, but that doesn't mean that suddenly everything is on equal footing.
Even if Data was declared to be a unique individual in court, and had proven himself on the Enterprise, Starfleet Command may have still been hesitant to accept it.
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Avenger
Junior Cadet
Joined: 26 Apr 2007
Posts: 19
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| Mon Sep 03, 2007 8:09 pm |
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All right, fair point, but still, five years seems like a long time for the brass hats at Starfleet Command to get their rears in gear. Besides, Captain Picard surely had the authority to promote Data, and he was one of Data's staunchest supporters. Why wouldn't the writers have let him give Data a third gold pip?
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robbiewebster
Rear Admiral
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
Posts: 2594
Location: Rochester, New York
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| Mon Sep 03, 2007 8:45 pm |
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The whole Troi Promotion thing really made me mad when I watched it. Her character has just always annoyed me. It makes no sense that she's allowed to walk around in civilian clothes when she's on duty. Also, the episode where she lost her ability to sense emotions. She was ready to leave starfleet, it was just annoying.
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Morphy
Forum Ogre
Joined: 15 Jun 2001
Posts: 3858
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| Tue Sep 04, 2007 7:07 am |
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I agree with you robbie. Troi was incredibly annoying. She starts out as ship's counselor then becomes a commander?!?!?! Give me a break.... it doesn't make sense at all.
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robbiewebster
Rear Admiral
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
Posts: 2594
Location: Rochester, New York
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| Tue Sep 04, 2007 9:32 pm |
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Thank you. I'm glad that I'm not alone. Actually I talked about this with my mom last night and she agrees. She told me that she said the same thing when the episode originally aired (my parents and myself would watch all of the new episodes when they came out, however I was a lot younger then, and I didn't understand everything).
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JupiterPrime
Lieutenant
Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 208
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| Wed Sep 05, 2007 3:13 pm |
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Yeah, but she was always great to look at though, wasnt she?
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Sonic74205
Rear Admiral
Joined: 01 Feb 2004
Posts: 4081
Location: England
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| Thu Sep 06, 2007 6:51 am |
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It didnt really bother me that she was commander. They showed it very well. The fact that yeah she HELD the rank of commander but that was about it. She was just the councellor on the ship. She wasnt part of the heirarchy on the ship and she wasnt a part of the bridge crew. How ever data was. If there was a problem on the bridge and all of the bridge crew were there including troi then data would come first. It would go Picard, Riker, Data, Worf, Troi, then the ensigns/Lt's on the bridge.
Think of it a bit like O'briens rank. He was cheif of operations on DS9 however Dr (Lt) Bashir outranked him.
-------signature-------
<a href="<img>http://sonic.11.forumer.com</a>
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Voyager2004
Commodore
Joined: 13 Apr 2004
Posts: 2070
Location: Silverdale, WA
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| Sat Sep 08, 2007 12:06 am |
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| Avenger wrote: | | Besides, Captain Picard surely had the authority to promote Data, |
Actually, no, he didn't. All the promotions most certainly run through that of Stafleet Command. He can, however, certainly run it in his eval or put him up for promotion, but he can not just promote him out of thin air...
"But then why did Janeway do that with Tuvok and Tom?" is the next question...Because Tuvok was most certainly the ranking officer to that of anybody on the ship...even that of Janeway, in terms of years IN service...because he left, then rejoined Starfleet. She gave Lieutenant back to Tom as a show of respect that he had served his time as Ensign and re-earned the rank of Lieutenant. Those such promotions would then be entered into their service records and then updated with Starfleet command, who clearly wouldn't down her idea because they were already performing that those respective ranks for years before returning home.
| robbiewebster wrote: | | It makes no sense that she's allowed to walk around in civilian clothes when she's on duty. |
Ah...I also read somewhere, and I think I even heard it said in a "Behind the Scenes" clip from the producers, that she wore civilian clothing BECAUSE she was the ship's counselor. She wasn't just the counselor for the crew, but ALSO for that of the other civilians on board...IE, the families. And they might be intimidated by that of the uniform.
| Sonic74205 wrote: | | She wasnt part of the heirarchy on the ship and she wasnt a part of the bridge crew |
But she was definitely indeed part of the bridge crew...Not only for the fact that she was ALWAYS on the bridge in most any situation...but she was part of the SENIOR staff...And as such, I'm sure you all noticed that pretty much all the Senior Staff are on the bridge most of the time...with the obvious exception of the Chief Engineer. But even then, he still spends a great deal of time on the Bridge.
-------signature-------
"We all make our own Hell, Mr. Lessing. I hope you enjoy yours."
Kathryn Janeway - Equinox Pt 2
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robbiewebster
Rear Admiral
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
Posts: 2594
Location: Rochester, New York
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| Sun Sep 09, 2007 8:02 pm |
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| Sonic74205 wrote: | It didnt really bother me that she was commander. They showed it very well. The fact that yeah she HELD the rank of commander but that was about it. She was just the councellor on the ship. She wasnt part of the heirarchy on the ship and she wasnt a part of the bridge crew. How ever data was. If there was a problem on the bridge and all of the bridge crew were there including troi then data would come first. It would go Picard, Riker, Data, Worf, Troi, then the ensigns/Lt's on the bridge.
Think of it a bit like O'briens rank. He was cheif of operations on DS9 however Dr (Lt) Bashir outranked him. |
What does Troi have that makes her more worthy of that rank than Data, Geordi, Worf etc. Also, do you remeber the episode where Geordi was given command of the Enterprise? (I think it was in the 2nd season) Why didn't they put her in charge?
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Captain Digness
Commander
Joined: 04 Dec 2003
Posts: 418
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| Sat Sep 15, 2007 2:50 am |
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somebody may have said this i did not read all the posts but data was to become first officer if he had not died. and troi was to become commander on trident, not the enterprise
-------signature-------
Victory at all costs, victory in spite of all terror, victory however long and hard the road may be; for without victory there is no survival.
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Voyager2004
Commodore
Joined: 13 Apr 2004
Posts: 2070
Location: Silverdale, WA
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| Sat Sep 15, 2007 4:25 pm |
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Yes, he was to be 1st officer, and Troi was just to go to the TITAN with her husband. I doubt very highly, she was to be Riker's 1st officer, just for the fact that they were married. She undoubtedly became the Ship's Counselor just like she was on the Enterprise.
-------signature-------
"We all make our own Hell, Mr. Lessing. I hope you enjoy yours."
Kathryn Janeway - Equinox Pt 2
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Captain Digness
Commander
Joined: 04 Dec 2003
Posts: 418
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| Sat Sep 15, 2007 4:28 pm |
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this disareeing is happening o often between us lol. any ways it says she was to be 1st off in nemises
-------signature-------
Victory at all costs, victory in spite of all terror, victory however long and hard the road may be; for without victory there is no survival.
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Voyager2004
Commodore
Joined: 13 Apr 2004
Posts: 2070
Location: Silverdale, WA
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| Sat Sep 15, 2007 4:31 pm |
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No it doesn't...I've seen the movie plenty of times. And at what part in the movie does it say that? And even if it did, it's technically wrong, because it would be a conflict of interest if she was his first officer.
-------signature-------
"We all make our own Hell, Mr. Lessing. I hope you enjoy yours."
Kathryn Janeway - Equinox Pt 2
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Captain Digness
Commander
Joined: 04 Dec 2003
Posts: 418
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| Sat Sep 15, 2007 4:32 pm |
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damn ur just proving me wrong all day lol
-------signature-------
Victory at all costs, victory in spite of all terror, victory however long and hard the road may be; for without victory there is no survival.
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Voyager2004
Commodore
Joined: 13 Apr 2004
Posts: 2070
Location: Silverdale, WA
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| Sat Sep 15, 2007 4:35 pm |
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Eh, that's not my intention with anybody, I do promise... 
-------signature-------
"We all make our own Hell, Mr. Lessing. I hope you enjoy yours."
Kathryn Janeway - Equinox Pt 2
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Sonic74205
Rear Admiral
Joined: 01 Feb 2004
Posts: 4081
Location: England
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| Mon Dec 03, 2007 9:06 pm |
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| robbiewebster wrote: | | Sonic74205 wrote: | It didnt really bother me that she was commander. They showed it very well. The fact that yeah she HELD the rank of commander but that was about it. She was just the councellor on the ship. She wasnt part of the heirarchy on the ship and she wasnt a part of the bridge crew. How ever data was. If there was a problem on the bridge and all of the bridge crew were there including troi then data would come first. It would go Picard, Riker, Data, Worf, Troi, then the ensigns/Lt's on the bridge.
Think of it a bit like O'briens rank. He was cheif of operations on DS9 however Dr (Lt) Bashir outranked him. |
What does Troi have that makes her more worthy of that rank than Data, Geordi, Worf etc. Also, do you remeber the episode where Geordi was given command of the Enterprise? (I think it was in the 2nd season) Why didn't they put her in charge? |
Perhaps she was lower in the ranks back then. That was in season one. we didnt hear about trois rank until season 6.
AND as a matter of fact in season seven we see troi taking the BRIDGE OFFICERS TEST. Now if you were already a bridge officer you wouldnt take a test a second time just for the sake of it would you? This proves that in the previous seasons troi was on the bridge and staff meetings at the request of captain Picard. How many other starships do you see that have a councellor on the bridge when red alert is called.
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Omok
Lieutenant
Joined: 28 Mar 2007
Posts: 170
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| Tue Dec 04, 2007 9:17 am |
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Even if Data had been declared a unique individual, he's an android...he'll live hundreds of years, his promotion rate should be a bit slower, just as Spock's was.
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