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tomparis
Stooge Three
Joined: 25 Jun 2001
Posts: 5964
Location: At your computer, hacking your files.
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 Tue Jun 26, 2007 5:28 pm The Doctor Stumbling |
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I was recently watching Deadlock (the episode where there is a copy of Voyager that is created in another dimension or something), and I noticed something. When the ship is taking damage and being shaken around, everyone, of course, stumbles. What I don't get is why would the Doctor, a hologram, stumble if the ship shakes. He doesn't actually have a sense of balance. Up, down, left, and right are all defined by the computer for him. Instead of stumbling, shouldn't he have just remained standing upright?
(Yeah, I'm that much of a nerd  )
-------signature-------
tomparis: The artist formerly known as the "Forum Nerd."
99.9% sure I'm not a zombie.
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TrekkieMage
Office Junkie
Joined: 17 Oct 2004
Posts: 5335
Location: Hiding
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| Tue Jun 26, 2007 6:11 pm |
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He must have a sense of balance though, how else would he be able to function? In order to apply pressue to something (say, cutting or measuring something) he'd need gravity, and for gravity to work he needs mass. And mass allows him to experience motion...
That's just my twisted logic
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tomparis
Stooge Three
Joined: 25 Jun 2001
Posts: 5964
Location: At your computer, hacking your files.
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| Tue Jun 26, 2007 6:49 pm |
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Still, you'd think the computer would be able to compensate for the ship shaking around them and at least keep the Doctor from stumbling.
(It's amazing the useless things you can come up with )
-------signature-------
tomparis: The artist formerly known as the "Forum Nerd."
99.9% sure I'm not a zombie.
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robbiewebster
Rear Admiral
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
Posts: 2594
Location: Rochester, New York
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| Tue Jun 26, 2007 11:03 pm |
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Yea, you would think that would be a safety concern. What if he was doing surgery or something during a battle. Idk.
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squiggy
Stooge Two
Joined: 09 Mar 2004
Posts: 3007
Location: Messing with the fabric of Video Game realities. I'll summon Shiva on you! I SWEAR!
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| Tue Jun 26, 2007 11:44 pm |
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You forget! The doctor was programmed to EMULATE HUMAN TENDENCIES. They can't be selective about this, or he won't seem "real".
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JupiterPrime
Lieutenant
Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 208
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| Wed Jun 27, 2007 3:09 pm |
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The Doc's mobile emitter wasnt part of the VOYAGER computer core, therefore it wouldnt transmit telemetry to it to let it know that the ship suffered a hit, whereby commanding the doctor's subroutines to trigger a stumble event.
Meaning while in Sick bay and tied to the sickbay emitters and computer management, the Doctor would stumble, while dancing around the ships corridors he would not.
I dont think that they would bother wasting valuable computer space and processing power on making him stumble whenever the ship suffered a collision - its not like the crew doesnt know he's a light bulb
He wouldnt stumble in sick bay either - he would just flash a bit as the emitter arrays fall out of alignment and then coalesce once they aligned themselves afterwards
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Voyager2004
Commodore
Joined: 13 Apr 2004
Posts: 2070
Location: Silverdale, WA
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| Thu Jun 28, 2007 5:39 pm |
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| TrekkieMage wrote: | He must have a sense of balance though, how else would he be able to function? In order to apply pressue to something (say, cutting or measuring something) he'd need gravity, and for gravity to work he needs mass. And mass allows him to experience motion...
That's just my twisted logic |
I agree with TM...he would stumble. He needs that mass, etc. And I would think it would take MORE computer space to program the Doctor not to stumble.
-------signature-------
"We all make our own Hell, Mr. Lessing. I hope you enjoy yours."
Kathryn Janeway - Equinox Pt 2
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IntrepidIsMe
Pimp Handed
Joined: 14 Jun 2002
Posts: 13057
Location: New York
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| Thu Jun 28, 2007 5:52 pm |
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But wouldn't it make MORE sense for him not to?
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"Nelly, I am Heathcliff! He's always, always in my mind: not as a pleasure, any more than I am always a pleasure to myself, but as my own being."
-Wuthering Heights
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Shawn Cordell
Lieutenant
Joined: 05 Jun 2007
Posts: 135
Location: Starfleet Headquarters
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| Thu Jun 28, 2007 6:38 pm |
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| IntrepidIsMe wrote: | | But wouldn't it make MORE sense for him not to? |
Not really, if taken into consideration he would need to have his mass to do surgery and such. A sense of balance is important as stated by TM as well as other good points.
Atleast, to me it makes sense.
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TrekkieMage
Office Junkie
Joined: 17 Oct 2004
Posts: 5335
Location: Hiding
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| Thu Jun 28, 2007 7:42 pm |
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| IntrepidIsMe wrote: | | But wouldn't it make MORE sense for him not to? |
Wouldn't it be just as bad if he stood still and his patient moved as well? If the forces of physics don't act on him, it would seem like it would cause more problems than if they did...
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IntrepidIsMe
Pimp Handed
Joined: 14 Jun 2002
Posts: 13057
Location: New York
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| Thu Jun 28, 2007 7:58 pm |
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I guess that as pointed out earlier it seems silly to have him stumble, stabbing somebody in the heart during surgery. Although yeah, them moving would be equally unproductive.
-------signature-------
"Nelly, I am Heathcliff! He's always, always in my mind: not as a pleasure, any more than I am always a pleasure to myself, but as my own being."
-Wuthering Heights
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JupiterPrime
Lieutenant
Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 208
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| Fri Jun 29, 2007 1:35 pm |
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The Doctor doesnt have mass. Directed and adjustable Force field and tractor emitters give the doctor the illusion of having a form and density in order to allow him to grasp tools and manipulate objects
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Sevensquare
Ensign, Junior Grade
Joined: 03 May 2006
Posts: 35
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| Sun Jul 01, 2007 7:14 am Interface |
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All the above replies are about the doctors interface. His interface is 25 century technology and it is difficult to get any gainful insights. Isn't most of what the doctor is dynamically connected to memmory and not interface? 98% of the doctor is memmory. I'm sure memmory buffer allocation is OLDER technology. The interface probably is just a simp with one single function--- emulate a person.
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JupiterPrime
Lieutenant
Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 208
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| Sun Jul 01, 2007 8:40 am |
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The emitter is 29th century techology
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squiggy
Stooge Two
Joined: 09 Mar 2004
Posts: 3007
Location: Messing with the fabric of Video Game realities. I'll summon Shiva on you! I SWEAR!
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| Sun Jul 01, 2007 2:02 pm |
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| JupiterPrime wrote: | | The emitter is 29th century techology |
The doctors programming is not.
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Voyager2004
Commodore
Joined: 13 Apr 2004
Posts: 2070
Location: Silverdale, WA
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| Sun Jul 01, 2007 6:39 pm |
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| JupiterPrime wrote: | | The Doctor doesnt have mass. Directed and adjustable Force field and tractor emitters give the doctor the illusion of having a form and density in order to allow him to grasp tools and manipulate objects |
Yet, he can turn himself into a solid form...therefore giving him mass. He has to be in solid form to pick up items that are NOT holographic. I.E, Tricorder, hypospray, etc.
-------signature-------
"We all make our own Hell, Mr. Lessing. I hope you enjoy yours."
Kathryn Janeway - Equinox Pt 2
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TrekkieMage
Office Junkie
Joined: 17 Oct 2004
Posts: 5335
Location: Hiding
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| Sun Jul 01, 2007 7:01 pm |
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| Voyager2004 wrote: | | JupiterPrime wrote: | | The Doctor doesnt have mass. Directed and adjustable Force field and tractor emitters give the doctor the illusion of having a form and density in order to allow him to grasp tools and manipulate objects |
Yet, he can turn himself into a solid form...therefore giving him mass. He has to be in solid form to pick up items that are NOT holographic. I.E, Tricorder, hypospray, etc. |
Unless he's being held together by the forcefield.
But even so, the laws of physics aren't easily bent. There would have to be some kind of force being applied to the hypospray that would be greater than the mass times the gravity of whatever he was holding or moving.
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JupiterPrime
Lieutenant
Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 208
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| Tue Jul 03, 2007 3:10 pm |
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| Voyager2004 wrote: | | JupiterPrime wrote: | | The Doctor doesnt have mass. Directed and adjustable Force field and tractor emitters give the doctor the illusion of having a form and density in order to allow him to grasp tools and manipulate objects |
Yet, he can turn himself into a solid form...therefore giving him mass. He has to be in solid form to pick up items that are NOT holographic. I.E, Tricorder, hypospray, etc. |
Excuse me?
He can do no such thing - he can choose merely to activate or deactivate the forcefield emitters which give us the tactile perception that he has a solid form, while leaving the holographic imaging projectors to project his image. He cannot assume a solid mass - matter cannot be created - it is a physical law and known constant of our universe
He may have a volume created by the energy emitted by forcefields to determine an approx. area of effect for our benefit, but the only amount of mass the doctor MIGHT have, is the collected mass of the various photons that are projected to display his form, however microscopically small that might actually be. Nevertheless he is incapable of manipulating that mass to make it any more or less dense save for any malfunction in his projectors (making him appear larger or smaller)
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Voyager2004
Commodore
Joined: 13 Apr 2004
Posts: 2070
Location: Silverdale, WA
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| Wed Jul 04, 2007 2:56 pm |
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Alrighty then...I do believe my words were taken a little too far out of context...NO, the doctor obviously can't manipulate and create mass for himself...what was derived from my statement, meant that he can manipulate the forcefields that give him "mass," to be able to pick up solids, therefore "making" him a solid being.
-------signature-------
"We all make our own Hell, Mr. Lessing. I hope you enjoy yours."
Kathryn Janeway - Equinox Pt 2
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sportguy301
Ensign, Junior Grade
Joined: 19 Aug 2007
Posts: 30
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| Mon Aug 20, 2007 3:19 pm |
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| Quote: | Excuse me?
He can do no such thing - he can choose merely to activate or deactivate the forcefield emitters which give us the tactile perception that he has a solid form, while leaving the holographic imaging projectors to project his image. He cannot assume a solid mass - matter cannot be created - it is a physical law and known constant of our universe
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what about the replicators, they can convert energy into matter which is allowable in the laws of physics, the whole E=mc^2 matter can be converted to energy and visa versa you just need a lot of energy to make somthing
The Doctor however can only choose to have force fields in place or not, giving the illusion of solid mass he however dosnt have any solid mass and is just light i think that that he is presented to act like a human, and part of that is to mimic the balance of a person and if the gyroscopic sensors (or whatever) suddenly get tossed around the Doctors program would interpret that just the way he would if he was a person under the same forces. whether or not it makes sense for him to do that the doctor is governed by his program which ties into the ships sensors and makes him move the way a real person would
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L'ursa
Lieutenant, Junior Grade
Joined: 08 May 2004
Posts: 118
Location: Lat=48.833 Lng=12.967
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| Tue Aug 21, 2007 12:39 am |
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Hmm, I am not sure about his portable emitter, but if we just focus on the old emitter system of the doc, that one was connected to (and controlled by) the ship's computer.
When the ship tumbles, the computer can not immediately compensate (else she would never tumble at all). What goes for steering the ship would necessarily go for steering the doc as well. Hence the Doc has to stagger occasionally.
Now, if both the ship and the doc are steered by the computer, how comes they don't tumble simultaneousely (so that the doc would always be synchronous with the ship's movement snd therefore wouldn't change his position, relatively to the ship)?
Keeping the ship on course and preventing the crew from physical damage must have top priority for the computer. The holo-doc can't be hurt and therefore has a lower priority. The computer deals with the doc after it corrected the ship's position. Hence his movements are not synchronous with the ship but a bit delayed and that makes him appear to stagger.
Summing it up into a catchy phrase, you might say that the crew suffers from mass inertia whereas the doc suffers from data inertia.
just my 3 cents (inflation, you know...  )
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