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StarfleetCommand544
Crewman
Joined: 08 Jun 2007
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 Fri Jun 08, 2007 5:53 pm The Borg Queen (How Did She Become The Borg Queen?) |
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I watched Star Trek Voyager Episodes Unimatrix Zero Part 1 & Part 2 recently and when The Borg Queen visted Unimatrix Zero she met a young boy and she told him that she was about his age when she was asimalated by the borg so I have two questions on this The First is How did The Borg Queen become the Borg Queen in the first place and Second why is The Borg Queen disinbodyed any ideas anyone? please reply to this topic with your theorys on these two questions
Last edited by StarfleetCommand544 on Fri Jun 08, 2007 5:56 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Lord Borg
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 27 May 2003
Posts: 11214
Location: Vulcan Capital City, Vulcan
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| Fri Jun 08, 2007 5:56 pm |
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There's no canon answer for this, really. One might think, that perhaps the collective began to grow, and things became chaotic, and a strong mind stepped in and took over, giveing order to chaos (Or, however the heck she put it). As for being disembodied, perhaps its the ultimate connection of flesh and machine, feeling that she does not need a "body" per se, as the face of the collective tends to be the drones.
-------signature-------
When you cried I'd wipe away all of your tears
When you'd scream I'd fight away all of your fears
And I held your hand through all of these years
But you still have
All of me
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Voyager2004
Commodore
Joined: 13 Apr 2004
Posts: 2070
Location: Silverdale, WA
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| Fri Jun 08, 2007 9:03 pm |
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I would agree with LB here.
As for disembodiment, it's kind of a way of perfection for her. To not be a part of her body. For "proper" cleaning. Haha...I made that last part up. I dunno. I read somewhere kind of why, but I don't remember.\
But what LB offers is a good reason. But at the same time, I'm sure there are many "good" reasons...
-------signature-------
"We all make our own Hell, Mr. Lessing. I hope you enjoy yours."
Kathryn Janeway - Equinox Pt 2
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lionhead
Rear Admiral
Joined: 26 May 2004
Posts: 4020
Location: The Delta Quadrant (or not...)
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| Sat Jun 09, 2007 3:51 am |
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Yeah, its all just specualtion. no real answer can be given.
I think she came to be when they needed, just like Locutus(Captain picard) an embodiment of the collective to talk a species into being assimilated. Locutus wasn't an individual then, and the queen isn't an individual either.
Her existence is a mystery to most people as they see her as an individual. But she isn't. She isn't really "disembodied". Not any less then a regular drone
This is proven by the fact she always speak in "We" and "Us" instead of "me". Thus proving she isn't talking as a individual, but its the collective talking through her.
Also its logical to presume she is just like any other drone because the only difference is she uses her own voice and looks a lot different from regular drones. Its logical as she can do the same things other drones can do, she is in connection with the collective so as all the other drones she can only give orders of the collective. She doesn't give he orders as an individual but the collective gives orders through her. She is escpecially usefull in situations that reguire species to react less aggressive or scared, as that would be less efficient. She also usefull in the willing assimilation process of Seven Of Nine, which wasn't an idea of the Queen herself but the collective.
She never called herself the "Borg Queen" either. She was given that title.
Thats what i think.
-------signature-------
Never explain comedy or satire or the ironic comment. Those who get it, get it. Those who don't, never will. -Michael Moore
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Voyager2004
Commodore
Joined: 13 Apr 2004
Posts: 2070
Location: Silverdale, WA
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| Sun Jun 10, 2007 9:32 pm |
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| lionhead wrote: | | She isn't really "disembodied". Not any less then a regular drone |
Are you serious? Please tell me you're joking. For all of those who believe that she "isn't" disembodied, please follow the link below and watch actual footage of her being ASSEMBLED in the episode "Dark Frontier, pt I" from Star Trek Voyager. She is also ASSEMBLED in "First Contact" when we first see her ever.
Yes, she speaks in "We" and "Us," but at the same time she is the closest thing to an individual, even though she's not.
She is the voice of the collective. So in that regard, yes, they "speak" through her. But at the same time, she brings order to chaos, there meaning the "chaos of billions of voices, and brings them to order" in the sense of "organizing them." She "kind of" orders the collective.
As for her title, you are correct there.
http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoID=774552459
-------signature-------
"We all make our own Hell, Mr. Lessing. I hope you enjoy yours."
Kathryn Janeway - Equinox Pt 2
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robbiewebster
Rear Admiral
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
Posts: 2594
Location: Rochester, New York
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| Sun Jun 10, 2007 10:15 pm |
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Wasn't she killed in First Contact? Wasn't that movie suppost to be taking place before she last appeared on Voyager? I don't know, maybe I'm not remembering right.
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Voyager2004
Commodore
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Posts: 2070
Location: Silverdale, WA
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| Sun Jun 10, 2007 10:23 pm |
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Yes she died in FC...she also died in "Best of Both Worlds, pt II." Even though we didn't see her, it is said in FC she was, so that means she died twice. Then she died again in "Dark Frontier, pt II" on Voyager. And we then saw her again in "Unimatrix Zero." Haha...she's got more lives than a cat! LOL.
And yes, FC took place before we ever saw her on Voyager.
-------signature-------
"We all make our own Hell, Mr. Lessing. I hope you enjoy yours."
Kathryn Janeway - Equinox Pt 2
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Shawn Cordell
Lieutenant
Joined: 05 Jun 2007
Posts: 135
Location: Starfleet Headquarters
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| Mon Jun 11, 2007 6:19 am |
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| Voyager2004 wrote: | | Yes she died in FC...she also died in "Best of Both Worlds, pt II." Even though we didn't see her, it is said in FC she was, so that means she died twice. Then she died again in "Dark Frontier, pt II" on Voyager. And we then saw her again in "Unimatrix Zero." Haha...she's got more lives than a cat! LOL. |
What exactly was it Capt. Janeway did to the Borg Queen? Is that the last of her? Or are we going to see her again?
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lionhead
Rear Admiral
Joined: 26 May 2004
Posts: 4020
Location: The Delta Quadrant (or not...)
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| Mon Jun 11, 2007 5:04 pm |
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| Voyager2004 wrote: | | lionhead wrote: | | She isn't really "disembodied". Not any less then a regular drone |
Are you serious? Please tell me you're joking. For all of those who believe that she "isn't" disembodied, please follow the link below and watch actual footage of her being ASSEMBLED in the episode "Dark Frontier, pt I" from Star Trek Voyager. She is also ASSEMBLED in "First Contact" when we first see her ever.
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With disembodied it was meant in the sense of being more individual.
Even so, she wasn't "Assembeled" in the sense of her body being build on the spot.
I see in both Dark Frontier and FC that her upper body is only being put in a carier vessel for her mobility. She doesn't need it to survive, its not even a true part of her body and probably doesn't have any organic parts in it.
| Quote: | | Yes, she speaks in "We" and "Us," but at the same time she is the closest thing to an individual, even though she's not. |
In what sense is she closer to an Individual then a regular Borg Drone?
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Never explain comedy or satire or the ironic comment. Those who get it, get it. Those who don't, never will. -Michael Moore
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lionhead
Rear Admiral
Joined: 26 May 2004
Posts: 4020
Location: The Delta Quadrant (or not...)
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| Mon Jun 11, 2007 5:21 pm |
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| Shawn Cordell wrote: | | Voyager2004 wrote: | | Yes she died in FC...she also died in "Best of Both Worlds, pt II." Even though we didn't see her, it is said in FC she was, so that means she died twice. Then she died again in "Dark Frontier, pt II" on Voyager. And we then saw her again in "Unimatrix Zero." Haha...she's got more lives than a cat! LOL. |
What exactly was it Capt. Janeway did to the Borg Queen? Is that the last of her? Or are we going to see her again? |
she got the full blow of the pathogen and her organic body died(probably because it takes technology to keep the organic part alive). We only see her organic body fall apart but as we know from FC she can live without it. Even if she was truly destroyed she can be reassembled like before.
-------signature-------
Never explain comedy or satire or the ironic comment. Those who get it, get it. Those who don't, never will. -Michael Moore
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Lord Borg
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 27 May 2003
Posts: 11214
Location: Vulcan Capital City, Vulcan
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| Mon Jun 11, 2007 5:21 pm |
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She speaks in induvidual terms, in FC, she has said something like "I am the borg" etc... "I bring order to chaos" that sort of thing.
-------signature-------
When you cried I'd wipe away all of your tears
When you'd scream I'd fight away all of your fears
And I held your hand through all of these years
But you still have
All of me
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Voyager2004
Commodore
Joined: 13 Apr 2004
Posts: 2070
Location: Silverdale, WA
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| Mon Jun 11, 2007 5:56 pm |
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Well, disembodied actually means "without a body."
That's what it sounded like you meant.
No, she doesn't actually need that body to survive, but she's still disembodied. Not exactly one with it.
And she's more so an individual than a regular drone, because, as LB said, she definitely said "I" in FC. In pretty much every other case we see her, yes she says "WE," but she is more an individual.
Not to mention in ENDGAME, the Queen says to Seven, "You've always been my favorite...Seven." She spoke in first person there, not third. So she has favoritism...she's pretty much an individual. A leader.
-------signature-------
"We all make our own Hell, Mr. Lessing. I hope you enjoy yours."
Kathryn Janeway - Equinox Pt 2
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Shawn Cordell
Lieutenant
Joined: 05 Jun 2007
Posts: 135
Location: Starfleet Headquarters
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| Mon Jun 11, 2007 6:01 pm |
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| Voyager2004 wrote: | Well, disembodied actually means "without a body."
That's what it sounded like you meant.
No, she doesn't actually need that body to survive, but she's still disembodied. Not exactly one with it.
And she's more so an individual than a regular drone, because, as LB said, she definitely said "I" in FC. In pretty much every other case we see her, yes she says "WE," but she is more an individual.
Not to mention in ENDGAME, the Queen says to Seven, "You've always been my favorite...Seven." She spoke in first person there, not third. So she has favoritism...she's pretty much an individual. A leader. |
One voice to rule them all!
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Voyager2004
Commodore
Joined: 13 Apr 2004
Posts: 2070
Location: Silverdale, WA
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| Mon Jun 11, 2007 6:04 pm |
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Haha...
"3 Captains to stop them.
3 Ships against the many
Billions of voices against them
And one voice to rule them all"
-------signature-------
"We all make our own Hell, Mr. Lessing. I hope you enjoy yours."
Kathryn Janeway - Equinox Pt 2
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Spellbinder Marik
Tal Shiar General
Joined: 23 Jun 2006
Posts: 1006
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| Tue Jun 12, 2007 3:42 am |
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Similar questions like this keep coming up but I believe my answer is also applicable here.
The old topic: http://www2.startrekvoyager.com:8080/viewtopic.php?t=20581&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=25
My Response:
| Spellbinder Marik wrote: | I ripped this post from one of my replies on a no longer active forum, A Similar question was asked and my answer was:
I read something once that said the Borg started out as a species that had some of their people infected by a virus. Shortly later a women had developed the technology to eliminate the viral material on the microscopic level. She injected the infected people with the microscopic robots(Nano-probes) and they were cured. Shortly later though she discovered that these people had improved eye sight, they became stronger and could think as fast as super computers. Drawn in by sheer fascination of what had happened to them she injected herself with the nano-probes. She began to notice the changes is herself almost instantly. After that she began to learn at a global rate. In a matter of weeks she knew everything on her planet. She developed a lust for power and began to Kill those who opposed her. Then it occurred to her that she could simply make them serve her. So she captured them(Assimilated) and tied them into her brain. In a matter of months she had control of everyone on her planet. Then she sought more and started to create space faring vessels with technology that no one had ever seen. Eventually she came across other races and found that they could easily be captured(Assimilated). She took whatever technology from her new species and enhanced her vessels. Each time she took a new species her numbers grew by hundreds and even thousands. She built even more vessels and kept on thirsting for knowledge and technology.
This is just what have read and is somewhat my opinion on how the Borg came into being. |
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"No changeling has ever harmed another."
- Female Changeling
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Shawn Cordell
Lieutenant
Joined: 05 Jun 2007
Posts: 135
Location: Starfleet Headquarters
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| Tue Jun 12, 2007 7:11 pm |
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| Quote: | The Borg suffered their worst setback against the Federation in 2378. Voyager discovered a Borg transwarp hub (one of only six in the entire galaxy), which allowed the Borg to quickly send ships anywhere in the galaxy. A future Admiral Janeway travelled back in time and ordered Voyager to use the hub to return to the Alpha Quadrant, but contemporary Captain Janeway was determined to destroy it. Admiral Janeway entered the Unicomplex and the Borg Queen assimilated her. However, the Admiral had surreptitiously infected herself with a neurolytic pathogen before being assimilated; once assimilated into the collective, the pathogen disabled neural links throughout the hive mind. Consequently, the Borg Queen lost connections with her drones and ships, before being overcome and killed, and the Unicomplex exploded. Simultaneously, an anti-Borg enhanced Voyager (with technology provided by Admiral Janeway) destroyed support beams for the hub while entering a transwarp corridor. The Borg hub then collapsed and Voyager was successfully returned to Earth (VOY: "Endgame").
After these events, the ultimate fate of the Borg is unknown. Although they presumably survived since Admiral Janeway stated she infected herself with just enough of the agent "to bring chaos to order..." |
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Voyager2004
Commodore
Joined: 13 Apr 2004
Posts: 2070
Location: Silverdale, WA
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| Sat Jun 16, 2007 5:12 pm |
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| Shawn Cordell wrote: | | Although they presumably survived since Admiral Janeway stated she infected herself with just enough of the agent "to bring chaos to order..." |
I don't think that statement means a whole lot. I think it just means "Just enough to bring you down." Type of thing. Not necessarily that it was "just enough" to get Voyager home.
But, as it does say above, the fate of the Borg is still unknown, but I highly doubt that Admiral Janeway's statement means what the quote above is trying to make it sound like.
-------signature-------
"We all make our own Hell, Mr. Lessing. I hope you enjoy yours."
Kathryn Janeway - Equinox Pt 2
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lionhead
Rear Admiral
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Posts: 4020
Location: The Delta Quadrant (or not...)
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| Sun Jun 17, 2007 12:06 pm |
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| Voyager2004 wrote: | Well, disembodied actually means "without a body."
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Actually, i know it more as "having no material body"
She definitly has a material body so i presume he meant disembodied from the collective, mentally.
But i guess its better the asker of the question could rephrase it.
-------signature-------
Never explain comedy or satire or the ironic comment. Those who get it, get it. Those who don't, never will. -Michael Moore
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Voyager2004
Commodore
Joined: 13 Apr 2004
Posts: 2070
Location: Silverdale, WA
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| Sun Jun 17, 2007 4:59 pm |
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| lionhead wrote: | | Voyager2004 wrote: | Well, disembodied actually means "without a body."
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Actually, i know it more as "having no material body"
Well, that is more correct than my definition...but eh...
She definitly has a material body so i presume he meant disembodied from the collective, mentally.
Yes, she has a material body, but she can be separated from it...therefore she is "disembodied" in a different sense.
But i guess its better the asker of the question could rephrase it. |
-------signature-------
"We all make our own Hell, Mr. Lessing. I hope you enjoy yours."
Kathryn Janeway - Equinox Pt 2
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Shawn Cordell
Lieutenant
Joined: 05 Jun 2007
Posts: 135
Location: Starfleet Headquarters
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| Sun Jun 17, 2007 5:19 pm |
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| Voyager2004 wrote: | | lionhead wrote: | | Voyager2004 wrote: | Well, disembodied actually means "without a body."
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Actually, i know it more as "having no material body"
Well, that is more correct than my definition...but eh...
She definitly has a material body so i presume he meant disembodied from the collective, mentally.
Yes, she has a material body, but she can be separated from it...therefore she is "disembodied" in a different sense.
But i guess its better the asker of the question could rephrase it. |
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| Quote: | dis�em�bod�y (dsm-bd)
tr.v. dis�em�bod�ied, dis�em�bod�y�ing, dis�em�bod�ies
1. To free (the soul or spirit) from the body.
2. To divest of material existence or substance. |
And in my humble opinion, she died in VOY. 
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