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WeAz
Commodore
Joined: 03 Apr 2004
Posts: 1519
Location: Where you aren't
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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 Tue Apr 17, 2007 9:20 pm |
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I love how elements within this country are crying foul with the gun laws. Sure, Virginia's gun laws are too laxed, I'll agree with that. But to blame such a horrific incident on a lack of gun control is just stupid. As the old saying goes, "Guns don't kill people. People kill people." We shouldn't prevent an individual's right to defend himself simply because of what evil madmen will do if they get their hands on a gun. No matter what you do some evil person is going to get his hands on a weapon and carry out these actions, strict gun control or not. Dismantling Second Amendment rights is not an appropriate course of action at all and it's not going to solve the problem.
As Bill O'Reilly pointed out tonight, the events that took place in New Orleans in the midst of Hurricane Katrina prove the necessity of a right to bear arms and a right to defend oneself. The Right to Bear Arms isn't the problem - what people do with that right to bear arms is. And I love how folks are saying this is "America's fault." Well, why isn't it Korea's? This guy's a Korean from South Korea, is he not? Everything to non-Americans nowadays seems to be "it's America's fault." Why? Because we're an easy target, that's why. We're condemned for things far more than extremest Muslim countries are. Sometimes I think Europe would much rather go to war with us than with Iran.
But I digress. The point is, it's not "America's fault" and it's not the Second Amendment's fault, either. It's the fact that school security was laxed, this man was pure evil, and he did wrong with his fundamental right guaranteed to him by the Constitution. He did this, not America, not the Second Amendment, and not the gun (well, literally the gun did, but you know what I mean).
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant
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| Tue Apr 17, 2007 9:24 pm |
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It's interesting people are talking about gun control or whatnot.
| Quote: | After the worst mass shooting in U.S. history, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (news, bio, voting record) cautioned Tuesday against a "rush to judgment" on stricter gun control. A leading House supporter of restrictions on firearms conceded passage of legislation would be difficult.
"I think we ought to be thinking about the families and the victims and not speculate about future legislative battles that might lie ahead," said Reid, a view expressed by other Democratic leaders the day after the shootings that left 33 dead on the campus of Virginia Tech. |
Source
It seems the Democrats don't want to take advantage of this situation for political gain.  Good for them, IMO.
Tragic story, BTW. The past few years have bred more school shootings in American then ever been seen. That's really sad, especially as so many of us here go to schools.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Tue Apr 17, 2007 9:31 pm |
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| Founder wrote: | | It seems the Democrats don't want to take advantage of this situation for political gain. Good for them, IMO. |
I agree, but this doesn't mean that they're not taking advantage of this situation for political gain. Actually, I'd say that the manner in which they're responding to it is somewhat political, wanting to seem as not taking advantage of this situation to get through a new measure on gun control. It's not politically expedient to go off on gun control, anyway, so if they were to take advantage of this it wouldn't be for political gain but a strategic attempt at getting through a key Democratic party position.
So, yeah, I think this is partially politically calculated (and it's easy to see how), but I'm not going to descend further than that because I think Reid does understand the intensity of this situation and recognizes how tense the situation is and the necessity of responding to it carefully.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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WeAz
Commodore
Joined: 03 Apr 2004
Posts: 1519
Location: Where you aren't
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| Tue Apr 17, 2007 10:15 pm |
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Every crisis is taken advantage of for political gains.
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TrekkieMage
Office Junkie
Joined: 17 Oct 2004
Posts: 5335
Location: Hiding
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| Wed Apr 18, 2007 2:52 am |
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| Pan13 wrote: | | It's really horrible what happened there, but, honestly, I think it's America's own fault. What else could you expect from a country in which about everyone is allowed to own a gun? Most people, of course, say that they only have their gun for protection, but if guns were generally banned nobody would need this kind of protection anymore. But on the other side, if guns don't get banned, it can become the easiest way for people to deal with their problems - and people shouldn't have this tempting possibility of rather shooting somebody than talking about their problems. |
I feel like this just isn't the time. In a week or so? Sure. Start pointing fingers and thinking up solutions. Right now there are 33 families that have been torn apart. 33 people are dead. An entire country is in schock, and the campus is still reeling from events. Students can't even stand to sleep in that dorm.
Right now is time to grieve. It's a time to remember their lives, support the people they left behind, and try and find out what happened.
I think, politically, peope are still in shock. This is the worst US school shooting in history, people are recovering and grieving. Politicians know that, and they know it would be politically unsound to push anything right now.
When people recover from the initial shock there will be plenty of fingerpointing and people manipulating the situation to their personal goals. We just need to figure out how to keep this from happening again.
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Theresa
Lux Mihi Deus
Joined: 17 Jun 2001
Posts: 27256
Location: United States of America
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| Thu Apr 19, 2007 5:08 pm |
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Did anyone else read Cho Seung-Hui's plays Richard McBeef and Mr Brownstone? I realize that hindsight is 20/20, but this guy has been throwing up warning flags for years, apparently.
-------signature-------
Some of us fall by the wayside
And some of us soar to the stars
And some of us sail through our troubles
And some have to live with our scars
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Lord Borg
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 27 May 2003
Posts: 11214
Location: Vulcan Capital City, Vulcan
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| Thu Apr 19, 2007 5:15 pm |
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Yeah, I have been reading over various things (Not his plays), and apparently numerous people have either complained about this person, or have tried to warn people about him, and it was largely ignored. How sad...
-------signature-------
When you cried I'd wipe away all of your tears
When you'd scream I'd fight away all of your fears
And I held your hand through all of these years
But you still have
All of me
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TrekkieMage
Office Junkie
Joined: 17 Oct 2004
Posts: 5335
Location: Hiding
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| Thu Apr 19, 2007 5:22 pm |
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| Theresa wrote: | | Did anyone else read Cho Seung-Hui's plays Richard McBeef and Mr Brownstone? I realize that hindsight is 20/20, but this guy has been throwing up warning flags for years, apparently. |
They tried sending him to therapy and hospitalized him for depression, but I think to take legal action against him they had to prove that he was capable of commiting an act of violence. I don't think anyone saw something of ths magnitude coming.
The only thing I think they could have actually used to take action was his stalking of girls. However, from what it sounds like, all these pieces of information didn't make it to the same pair of ears.
Hindsight is 20/20, but they did try and so something about him in the classroom. And as one of his professors said, there's a huge jump between writing about something and actually doing it.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Thu Apr 19, 2007 11:38 pm |
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Taking this discussion in a slightly different direction, towards the reaction of the world and press, I found O'Reilly's latest column to make some good points related to this incident.
| Quote: | Ideology and Virginia Tech
By Bill O'Reilly for BillOReilly.com
Visiting Dublin last week, I was struck by how anti-American the Irish press is. I mean, Eire is not France; the Irish people generally like Americans--many of the Irish have family here.
...
There is no question that the anti-American media worldwide is now taking its cue from Americans themselves. After all, if our own citizens are portraying the USA as evil, why would the foreign press not pick up on it?
Here's another illustration. Just hours after the Virginia Tech killer did his evil deeds, the far-left websites began cranking up the hate.
http://www.billoreilly.com/newslettercolumn?pid=21122
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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TrekkieMage
Office Junkie
Joined: 17 Oct 2004
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| Fri Apr 20, 2007 12:42 am |
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And I find it sickening that O'Reilly would be repeating all of that and using the reactions of what happened at VT as a vehicle for his personal agenda - "look at the horrible left-wing people".
Maybe he could take a tip from the Democractic party and focus on helping the US pick itself back up before pointing fingers and slandering people.
About the international news - BBC did a beautiful job of covering the shooting. And the international community as a whole has been very sympathetic towards what's been happening here.
But in America? How many news stations here reported about the terrorist attack in Algeria? Their government had thought that they'd put an end to their civil war. Or how about the car bombing in Iraq that killed over 80 people?
America media is one of the worst about covering international news. I think it would be reasonable for us to cut the international community (who has been very supportive of us this week) a little bit of slack for trying to pinpoint the problem. Even if it does take a stab at Fox, Bush, the Republicans, and the NRA.
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Puck
The Texan
Joined: 05 Jan 2004
Posts: 5596
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| Fri Apr 20, 2007 12:49 am |
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I find it disgusting the amount of attention the media is giving him. Not only had they been focusing almost completely on the shooter, but then NBC decides to show whatever he sent into them. Why are we giving fame to this mass murderer? Is that not half of what he wanted...to be publicized and looked upon as a martyr. I don't think the shooter should be getting any attention. Why don't we instead focus on the people who were killed. Most of them were all incredibly amazing and valuable people. Let's talk about them instead.
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Lord Borg
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 27 May 2003
Posts: 11214
Location: Vulcan Capital City, Vulcan
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| Fri Apr 20, 2007 12:52 am |
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I agree, it is extreamly disgusting, NBC shows poor taste of showing these things on air. The press bothers me  . This is a time for moruning, not a week ahs gone by, and people are trying to point the blame at the wront persons to begin with....sickening.
-------signature-------
When you cried I'd wipe away all of your tears
When you'd scream I'd fight away all of your fears
And I held your hand through all of these years
But you still have
All of me
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TrekkieMage
Office Junkie
Joined: 17 Oct 2004
Posts: 5335
Location: Hiding
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| Fri Apr 20, 2007 12:58 am |
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On one hand, everyone keeps asking what his motivation was. However, they don't need to show this much about him.
BBC and CNN both have wonderful pages dedicated to the victims. The professor who was a Holocaust survivor and gave his life to save his students just amazes me.
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Lord Borg
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 27 May 2003
Posts: 11214
Location: Vulcan Capital City, Vulcan
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| Fri Apr 20, 2007 1:03 am |
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I read about him on Wikipedia, it is amazing. It also saddens me at how he survives something like that, only to be gunnd down by someone like the shooter....
-------signature-------
When you cried I'd wipe away all of your tears
When you'd scream I'd fight away all of your fears
And I held your hand through all of these years
But you still have
All of me
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Puck
The Texan
Joined: 05 Jan 2004
Posts: 5596
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| Fri Apr 20, 2007 1:03 am |
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All the talk about it definitely makes a person wonder what they would do. I hope that if I were ever in a situation like this I'd try and stop the person. Then again, I suppose in real life you don't have much time to decide what to do...you just go with fight or flight.
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Theresa
Lux Mihi Deus
Joined: 17 Jun 2001
Posts: 27256
Location: United States of America
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| Sat Apr 21, 2007 1:41 am |
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I don't know how long this link will last, don't have time to save and upload it, and mlb is constantly changing, but it's kind of cool.
http://mlb.mlb.com/images/2007/04/20/sWMbl8hE.jpg
-------signature-------
Some of us fall by the wayside
And some of us soar to the stars
And some of us sail through our troubles
And some have to live with our scars
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Lord Borg
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 27 May 2003
Posts: 11214
Location: Vulcan Capital City, Vulcan
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| Sat Apr 21, 2007 1:46 am |
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I heard about this a couple teams ahve done that, it's a pretty cool thing to do.
-------signature-------
When you cried I'd wipe away all of your tears
When you'd scream I'd fight away all of your fears
And I held your hand through all of these years
But you still have
All of me
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Ziona
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 22 Aug 2001
Posts: 12821
Location: Michigan... for now
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| Sat Apr 21, 2007 3:02 am |
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On our campus right now, the biggest fear is backlash towards South Korean students. I'm South Korean and I already got verbally assaulted once over this incident.
But so far, there have only been a few backlashes at South Koreans at our college.
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]"...the truth is, I am scared to death just treading on your shadow..."
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Lord Borg
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 27 May 2003
Posts: 11214
Location: Vulcan Capital City, Vulcan
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| Sat Apr 21, 2007 3:08 am |
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I'm sorry to hear that, Ziona. It's sad that people not involved in this get a backlash due to thier nationality/origin/whatever people want to say. While I agree this was a horrible situation, and 32 innocent people died, this is out of line.
-------signature-------
When you cried I'd wipe away all of your tears
When you'd scream I'd fight away all of your fears
And I held your hand through all of these years
But you still have
All of me
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PrankishSmart
Rear Admiral
Joined: 29 Apr 2002
Posts: 4779
Location: Hobart, Australia.
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| Sat Apr 21, 2007 4:12 am |
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I guess this sort of thing happens on extreme rare instances when you bully a computer nerd one too many times.
I heard that he was wearing a bullet proof vest and had two fully automatic weapons with him. Now I don't have a problem with guns used for 'home' defense as long as they stay there, and for sport shooting, but when it comes to automatic weapons, that has to be strictly controlled IMO. And something like a 50 caliber sniper rifle that can be obtained with relative ease and can kill from 2+ km away is a very scary thought.
Now if someone wants to buy a pistol for home 'defence', fine (personally I don't see the need, my martial arts swords and stuff is a good enough deterrent for the unexpected), but why the need for such extreme weapons. Guns and ammo needs to be strictly kept track of and log booked and anyone who owns one should undergo some mental fitness evaluation annually.
Now that may not help at all, but doing nothing will change nothing, either.
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TrekkieMage
Office Junkie
Joined: 17 Oct 2004
Posts: 5335
Location: Hiding
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| Sat Apr 21, 2007 12:29 pm |
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| PrankishSmart wrote: | I guess this sort of thing happens on extreme rare instances when you bully a computer nerd one too many times.
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He was an English major.
As for the guns and he "home defense", do you really need two automatic weapons, a bullet proof vest, and that much ammo to defend youself? I don't think so...
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TrekkieMage
Office Junkie
Joined: 17 Oct 2004
Posts: 5335
Location: Hiding
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| Tue Apr 24, 2007 7:22 pm |
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Emotional return for Virginia Tech students and faculty
The story about the chemistry professor that they start and end with is incredibly moving. It sounds like everyone is starting to heal emotionally. And it's really kind for them to be allowing students to leave early without penalty since the semester is nearly over.
They also said that they probably weren't going to use Norris Hall again. Which is probably a smart move for returning students and faculty. I don't know if I would be able to go back in there if I went to VT...
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Arellia
The Quiet One
Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Posts: 4425
Location: Dallas, TX
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| Wed Apr 25, 2007 5:51 pm |
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Some *interesting* pictures. My gosh, it's a tragedy this kid wasn't identified before he caused all this.
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Lord Borg
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 27 May 2003
Posts: 11214
Location: Vulcan Capital City, Vulcan
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| Wed Apr 25, 2007 5:59 pm |
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Wow....disturbing....
-------signature-------
When you cried I'd wipe away all of your tears
When you'd scream I'd fight away all of your fears
And I held your hand through all of these years
But you still have
All of me
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