Photon Torpedoes at Warp

StarfleetCommand74656 · Captain Joined: 22 May 2006 Posts: 653 Location: On STV

If a ship fires torps forward while flying at warp speed, wouldnt the ship simply smash into them? Or do the photn torps have hidden warp engines?

Lord Borg · **Mon Apr 02, 2007 2:52 pm**

They do have a semi warp type thing, in TNG one was shown traveling at warp carrying an emergancy intercept to Enterprise.

They use Anti-Matter Engines/Warheads.

Also, firing at war, the torpedo is in essence going the speed the torpedo can fly at, PLUS the speed the starship is traveling at.

robbiewebster · **Mon Apr 02, 2007 9:03 pm**

I thought they couldn't fire weapons at warp.

lionhead · **Tue Apr 03, 2007 3:55 am**

Yeah, hats what i thought too. There is this whole warp field around the ship then right?

I remember a borg cube can shoot at warp though....

robbiewebster · **Tue Apr 03, 2007 7:13 pm**

yea, i forgot about the borg

Lord Borg · **Tue Apr 03, 2007 9:13 pm**

They can't fire phasers, they can fire torpedoes.

robbiewebster · **Wed Apr 04, 2007 4:13 pm**

Who? The Federation? I didn't think they could.

Lord Borg · **Wed Apr 04, 2007 4:18 pm**

They've done it many times, the rear ones at least. "Q Who" is an example that I can think of right off the tip of my head. At warp speeds, the Enterprise-D fired torpedoes at the pursing Borg Cube.

PrankishSmart · **Thu Apr 05, 2007 2:49 am**

Photon and Quantum torpedoes can they are phenomenally sophisticated warheads but much more than just a warhead weapon they employ impulse and warp propulsion systems, navigation systems, sensor systems, uplink to federation vessel, plated armour defence etc etc. This is why they can't just be simply replicated (but a shuttle can so their very advanced compared to a shuttle), and require advanced fabrication and are the most powerful weapon used to defend the federation against its many foes of the 24th century.

Phasers may have been seen firing at warp but their really shouldn't. They are a very simple dispersion of energy in comparison and little damage compared to a volley of quantum torpedoes, for example.

Defiant · **Thu Apr 05, 2007 1:55 pm**

Heh...just don't fire them out of the forward torpedo tubes.

robbiewebster · **Fri Apr 06, 2007 8:23 pm**

I'm pretty sure that they jumped to warp a split second after firing the torpedos.

Voyager2004 · **Fri Jun 01, 2007 2:53 pm**

http://www.startrek.com/startrek/view/library/technology/article/3890.html

Self-propelled missiles consisting of a small quantity of matter and antimatter bound together in a magnetic container, used as a tactical weapon by Federation starships.

Photon torpedoes are the preferred weapon when a ship is at warp drive since they are not limited by the speed of light, as ship's phasers are.

I got this from Startrek.com

Phaser's aren't supposed to be fired at warp because they're limited by the speed of light. Since it is a laser and technically a form of light.

Captain Digness · Commander Joined: 04 Dec 2003 Posts: 418

i disagree 2004. a fighter pilot can shoot bullets at mach 4 but has to dodge out of the way at once

Voyager2004 · **Sat Sep 15, 2007 4:34 pm**

Ntypical · **Mon Oct 22, 2007 10:54 am**

lionhead · **Mon Oct 22, 2007 4:13 pm**

The only reason the fighter is going at mach 4 is because he is propelled by a jet engine. The problem is when a rocket is detached it just falls off, its then not being propelled by the fighters jet engines anymore. As soon as its detached it will loose speed as gravity, wind and other resistance will brake it. Thus it would hit the fighter plane if it didn't have its own propulsion. That propulsion can't go Mach 4 so it can take the missile away from the fighter fast enough not to hit it, but the missile will eventually fall behind on the plane.

But, as starships are not bothered by silly gravity or wind, plus the fact we don't actually know what happens at the speed of light, you need a sholarship in faster-then-light travel to answer... Which doesn't exist.

If Einstein was right, they would be time travelling.

Ntypical · **Mon Oct 22, 2007 5:12 pm**

PrankishSmart · **Tue Oct 30, 2007 3:48 am**

No fighter is going to go Mach 4 and fire a air to air arm that can ACCELERATE to an even greater speed than that LOL! The SR71 can go Mach 3.3 and outrun missles.

Ntypical · **Wed Oct 31, 2007 4:58 am**

I am sure that was an exaggerated number. But if a missile that has a top speed of mach 3 is fired from a jet that is going 600 mph. Then the missile will be able to travel mach 3 +600 mph for a time. Then it will eventually slow to its rated top speed. But that does not happen instantly.

And you are correct. No fighter is going to be trying to acquire targets at that speed, because if they are going that fast they have other things on their minds.

PrankishSmart · **Wed Oct 31, 2007 6:00 am**

Ntypical · **Wed Oct 31, 2007 9:40 am**

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/missile/aim-54.htm

3000 mph = Mach 3.9 (remember the speed of sound changes with air density, humidity, and temperature, the more dense the medium the faster the speed of sound), but for all intents and purposes we will use the speed of sound at sea level with 60% humidity and 70 degrees farenheight. Which is about 769 mph. Note that it says in excess of 3000 mph. Meaning it can go faster.

But since you said typical Air to Air, sure 2.5 is a good guess. Although I will use the above missile type for this explination.

Now what limits its speed is the amount of fuel it has to achieve that velocity, and the different forces that affect the missile in flight (things like gravity and friction from airflow and lift). When they test for these things they test stationary (they do not always actually fire the missile to test speed, sometimes they simply do the math, but they figure it for a starting speed of zero as it yields better results). So it has enough fuel to reach Mach 3.8 + from zero. That would mean that if you are already going Mach 1.5 it would burn for that set time, at which time it would break Mach 3.8. Or round about there. Especially these long range air to air missiles. They are pre programmed with set burn times and rates. Meaning that if it took 5.2 seconds to reach Mach 3.8 from a stand still, it will still burn for 5.2 seconds regardless of your speed. It will continue to accelerate until it hits that set burn time. Then it will taper off for to another set burn time to maintain the speed set, and will start to slow down from Mach 5.3 to its original cruise speed. Shorter range missiles (like the AIM-9 which has a top speed from stationary of Mach 2.5) will simply burn its fuel at a set rate the whole time. Accelerating until it either hits its intended target, or reaches its set range and self detonates.

Next there are some types of missiles and rockets that have onboard sensors that track the speed of the missile, but because most air to air does not and because we are talking general we will exclude those types.

From drawing a simple force diagram we can see how the different factors affect the problem, and you will see how I arrived at my above explanation. If you would like to work through this with me please let me know.

PrankishSmart · **Wed Oct 31, 2007 9:56 pm**

It says that missle has a solid rocket motor, and from my understanding of solid rockets, they cannot throttle their thrust. It's on until it runs out of propellant (or explodes on impact).

The maximum speed of the rocket will be just before it runs out of fuel, where the craft will be at it's lowest mass, and where the destructive capability will be lowest because of the spent fuel that would have added to the destructive power.

lionhead · **Thu Nov 01, 2007 12:47 am**

i don't think Photon Torpedo's excellerate after fired. They don't have to push through gravity and other resistance much to reach the speed they are intended to.

Ntypical · **Thu Nov 01, 2007 8:53 am**

[quote="PrankishSmart"]It says that missle has a solid rocket motor, and from my understanding of solid rockets, they cannot throttle their thrust. quote]

It does not have to throttle forward or back. Because (according to our Air O) it uses a variable stage rocket motor. Meaning that one section of the motor is set to burn at this rate, and others are set to burn at that rate. I looked around online. But have not been able to find any specifics on the MK 47 MOD 1 rocket motor assembly.

PrankishSmart · **Fri Nov 02, 2007 12:55 am**

I don't even think it can go off once it is on it's on until propellant is exhausted. The SRBs on the orbiter use solid propellant and once they are ignited they cannot be turned off no matter what.

I think only very new missles that use ram jets (ie ones to be designed for ef typhoon, f22 raptor etc) would throttle their thrust if needed but those types of missles are still in development and is at least another 5 or 10 years away from even testing phase.