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WeAz
Commodore
Joined: 03 Apr 2004
Posts: 1519
Location: Where you aren't
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 Thu Mar 01, 2007 7:59 pm |
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| Puck wrote: | | WeAz wrote: | | And, once again, how do we know that the power information is reliable. |
If we are going to use this line of thought, how do we know any poll or news story is reliable? |
We don't, but major news corporations have a reputation and a company to defend. A text based web-page like this, has nothing to lose. Matt Drudge can run what ever he wants, he doesn't have a company to protect.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Thu Mar 01, 2007 8:03 pm |
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| WeAz wrote: | | Puck wrote: | | WeAz wrote: | | And, once again, how do we know that the power information is reliable. |
If we are going to use this line of thought, how do we know any poll or news story is reliable? |
We don't, but major news corporations have a reputation and a company to defend. A text based web-page like this, has nothing to lose. Matt Drudge can run what ever he wants, he doesn't have a company to protect. |
Perhaps you didn't read the article and notice the credible source there?
http://www.tennesseepolicy.org/main/article.php?article_id=367
-------signature-------
"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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WeAz
Commodore
Joined: 03 Apr 2004
Posts: 1519
Location: Where you aren't
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| Thu Mar 01, 2007 8:10 pm |
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Ok, thats much more credible than the "Drudge Report".
I do not get, how they got these figures though. Thats what I want to know, how did they get Gore's electricity bill?
And why have I not heard anything about this from the any other news source, besides a tiny article in FOX? Normally this would be a huge scandal.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Thu Mar 01, 2007 8:39 pm |
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Not really, since the Left wing media adores Gore 
And that Drudge Report article was entirely credible because it specifically gave that as the source for its information
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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PrankishSmart
Rear Admiral
Joined: 29 Apr 2002
Posts: 4779
Location: Hobart, Australia.
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| Fri Mar 02, 2007 1:27 am |
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| Puck wrote: | | PrankishSmart wrote: | Actually it's like you guys are arguing about the lost cents when you should be arguing about the lost dollars.
What about all those casinos with their waterfalls, fountains, lights, pokie machines, etc etc. What about all the buildings in the city that keep their office lights on 24/7 when no one is there. I could go on. |
I say all the casinos should go for their waterfalls, fountains, lights, and everything. I'd even tell Mr. Gore to go for as much electricity as he wants, because I don't think that global warming is anything near what some of these extremists make it out to be. I just love how he said in his documentary that Americans need to save power at home, yet his home uses 20x that of a normal American house. (And we do know that these are accurate...the readings came from the power company...) |
I think there is more to global warming than power stations and electricity, too. A 'extremist' may think along the lines of switching off 1 60watt light will really save a tree or a few molecules of pollution or something. In actual fact, it's a LOT more complex than that. A power station generates energy to power a area, it outputs a specific amount of energy. You switch off something it's not going to directly put less load on the power station thus saving the fuel. The power station outputs enough energy + a BIG safety margin to avoid an overload. At night time the energy outputs will probably be throttled down a bit. In all realism a mansion which uses 20 times more power than a house will still not cause a dent or scratch in the overall scheme of things.
Agreed on the 'hypocritical' comments, though.
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Puck
The Texan
Joined: 05 Jan 2004
Posts: 5596
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| Fri Mar 02, 2007 10:14 am |
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I should probably note that for the most part, I don't have a problem with trying to protect the environment in general. Currently, our govenor is trying to get something like 8 new coal power plants built in our state. I don't want that. However, it's not because I'm scared it's going to cause global warming. I don't want it because of all the other reasons it is bad for the environment...most of all because it pollutes the air (which where I live, its already horrible in the summer). I think I am much more agreeable when it comes to protecting the environment in general (I do have my limits). I just think this whole global warming fad is just being blown way out of proportion by the UN, France, and Al Gore.
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TrekkieMage
Office Junkie
Joined: 17 Oct 2004
Posts: 5335
Location: Hiding
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| Sun Mar 04, 2007 3:33 pm |
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The whole issue is being blown out of proportion. Yes, he does you more energy, but read this article from NPR.
He is working to pollute less. thing is, no one is reporting it.
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Defiant
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 04 Jul 2001
Posts: 15946
Location: Oregon City, OR
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| Sun Mar 04, 2007 6:59 pm |
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Why pick on Gore? TONS of other people, celebrities, republicans, fatcats, everyone with a bigger house is bound to have the exact same situation. Don't just report on one part of the story without looking at the rest.
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La Forge
Bajoran Colonel
Joined: 16 Feb 2006
Posts: 2125
Location: Babylon 5
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| Sun Mar 04, 2007 7:16 pm |
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I agree with TM that this is being blown out of proportion. And, now before you Republicans pounce on the hypocrite button, again, let me say something. Al Gore has a big house because he's rich. That's his right. After all, he did work to earn that money. If he wants a big house, let him have one. He deserves it. And, as Defiant said, big houses use a lot of power and more than just Gore face this problem.
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You'll never hear me say this again in my life, but...
Go Red Sox!
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WeAz
Commodore
Joined: 03 Apr 2004
Posts: 1519
Location: Where you aren't
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| Sun Mar 04, 2007 7:41 pm |
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Is GW exaggerated a bit? Yes
Is it exaggerated the point that we can ignore it NO
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Sun Mar 04, 2007 7:44 pm |
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I haven't heard a single person criticize Gore's right to own the biggest house he wants or the fact that he has one. I'm all for capitalism - he can have the biggest house he wants to have. I don't care.
What I do care about, however, is when the leader of a vast movement is preaching one thing and then, for the most part, doing the opposite of what he's preaching, that's wrong.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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WeAz
Commodore
Joined: 03 Apr 2004
Posts: 1519
Location: Where you aren't
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| Sun Mar 04, 2007 7:46 pm |
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If what he's saying makes sense, then its good.
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At Least In Vietnam, Bush Had An Exit Strategy
It was Bush, not Clinton, who ignored the warning signs for 9/11.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Sun Mar 04, 2007 7:49 pm |
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| WeAz wrote: | | If what he's saying makes sense, then its good. |
By that logic, Bush, because he's said tons of things that make sense to everyone, has said lots of good things, then, right?
I'm sorry, but that's just a silly way to look at it. Hitler said stuff that "made sense" to the German people, but was what he was saying about the Jews "good?" I'd argue not. You can't just say, "Oh, that makes sense, so it's good." It just doesn't fly.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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WeAz
Commodore
Joined: 03 Apr 2004
Posts: 1519
Location: Where you aren't
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| Sun Mar 04, 2007 8:14 pm |
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So whatever he says about Global Warming is bull because he doesn't...live what he says?
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TrekkieMage
Office Junkie
Joined: 17 Oct 2004
Posts: 5335
Location: Hiding
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| Sun Mar 04, 2007 8:16 pm |
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I believe I heard that Gore's house has actually been in his family for years. But I don't remember where I heard that from, so I can't really claim it as fact.
As for the size of someone's house, yes they are allowed to have big houses. It's ridiculus to say that someone *can't* have a big house. However, it is not unreasonable for society (not law, the society as a whole) to expect the rich to give back to the community and not overindulge.
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La Forge
Bajoran Colonel
Joined: 16 Feb 2006
Posts: 2125
Location: Babylon 5
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| Sun Mar 04, 2007 8:52 pm |
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I don't think that Gore is going completely against his global warming, pro-environment thing by owning a big house that happens to consume more power than an average household.
By saying that "...When the leader of a vast movement is preaching one thing and then, for the most part, doing the opposite of what he's preaching, that's wrong.". Well...that's kinda ridiculous. Gore is doing the "opposite " of what he's "preaching". He owns a power-sucker of a house. Now, give me more stuff that he's doing that's against his philosophy.
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You'll never hear me say this again in my life, but...
Go Red Sox!
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Sun Mar 04, 2007 10:00 pm |
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| Quote: | | Now, give me more stuff that he's doing that's against his philosophy. |
He owns a private jet and has ties to oil companies, to name two things. And there's more than that, but I haven't the time to elaborate.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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WeAz
Commodore
Joined: 03 Apr 2004
Posts: 1519
Location: Where you aren't
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| Sun Mar 04, 2007 10:56 pm |
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| Republican_Man wrote: | | Quote: | | Now, give me more stuff that he's doing that's against his philosophy. |
He owns a private jet and has ties to oil companies, to name two things. And there's more than that, but I haven't the time to elaborate. |
He's rich...
| Quote: | | ties to oil companies |
Proof?
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Sun Mar 04, 2007 11:06 pm |
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He's rich, yes, but does that really excuse him from letting off all those carbon emissions with that jet? You're missing the point here.
There's a good piece I just found from USA Today, located here. It talks a little bit about his hypocrisy and addresses the particular tie I'm talking about in it.
Gore's family has, for some time, held large stock holdings in Occidental (Oxy) Petroleum. To quote the article, "As executor of his family's trust, over the years Gore has controlled hundreds of thousands of dollars in Oxy stock. Oxy has been mired in controversy over oil drilling in ecologically sensitive areas."
He's got stock in an oil company, the practices of which are questionable. You have to admit he's the worst guy to be Chief Spokesman of the Global Warming - excuse me, "global climate change" movement.
-------signature-------
"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Defiant
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 04 Jul 2001
Posts: 15946
Location: Oregon City, OR
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| Mon Mar 05, 2007 12:26 am |
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| Republican_Man wrote: | | What I do care about, however, is when the leader of a vast movement is preaching one thing and then, for the most part, doing the opposite of what he's preaching, that's wrong. |
You have no possible way of knowing what he does in his household. You have no idea about how/if he recycles, disconnects his downspouts, and other environmentally changing activities. A simple power bill doesn't really mean a thing and certainly isn't a reason to call him a hypocrite.
And look at other people who try to be activists in the same field. Think of what kind of house that Ralph Nader lives in or Bono or any other person who is supposed to be a leader of an environmental movement.
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Valathous
The Canadian, eh
Joined: 31 Aug 2002
Posts: 19074
Location: Centre Bell
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| Mon Mar 05, 2007 1:39 am |
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I'd say, like Mark suggested, that I would have to know more about his living habbits in other such environmental things before passing judgement. And depending on where he gets his energy, it may not make a difference. While it is unlikely, what if he is powered by hydro or a bunch of windmills and solar pannels?
Although, to be fair, I can see how he can be attributed as a hypocite.
Hey, Mark? Just a side note, since you are using Ralph Nader as an example...
Ralph Nader:
| Wikipedia wrote: | | "Ralph Nader has lived a frugal and simple life even though he is worth millions personally. He has never been married or had children. He has not owned a car since 1955, and has lived for decades in a boarding house. According to the mandatory financial disclosure report that he filed with the Federal Election Commission in 2000, he then owned more than $3 million worth of stocks and mutual fund shares; his single largest holding was more than $1 million worth of stock in Cisco Systems, Inc. The largest recipients of Nader's donations have included Public Interest Research Groups (PIRGs) and other non-profit organizations. |
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Defiant
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 04 Jul 2001
Posts: 15946
Location: Oregon City, OR
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| Mon Mar 05, 2007 1:41 am |
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Nader pwns.
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Arellia
The Quiet One
Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Posts: 4425
Location: Dallas, TX
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| Mon Mar 05, 2007 4:40 pm |
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| Republican_Man wrote: | He's rich, yes, but does that really excuse him from letting off all those carbon emissions with that jet? You're missing the point here.
There's a good piece I just found from USA Today, located here. It talks a little bit about his hypocrisy and addresses the particular tie I'm talking about in it.
Gore's family has, for some time, held large stock holdings in Occidental (Oxy) Petroleum. To quote the article, "As executor of his family's trust, over the years Gore has controlled hundreds of thousands of dollars in Oxy stock. Oxy has been mired in controversy over oil drilling in ecologically sensitive areas."
He's got stock in an oil company, the practices of which are questionable. You have to admit he's the worst guy to be Chief Spokesman of the Global Warming - excuse me, "global climate change" movement. |
Straw-person argument. Whether he does what he says has nothing to do with whether what he's saying is good. Now, granted, I have not watched his movie, though I intend to, simply because I'd rather know what people are talking about and how I feel about it. Nader is, certainly, a better example of a true environmentalist. I wouldn't, nor would the people where I come from (uber-liberal Hippy, California) call him an environmentalist. He does bring some 'star-power' to their cause, and is therefore instrumental.
I would also say, if he has that large of a house, like Dan mentioned, he could be using the most environmentally-friendly means to even keep his power bill THAT low. I've no real defense for Gore himself, because I think a house that large is a little excessive. That's his right, though, so it's not wrong in that sense, just... not a great idea, to me. It doesn't negate the message he's conveying. A doctor who doesn't follow his/her own health advice can still be helpful to a patient (and that happens QUITE frequently).
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Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant
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| Mon Mar 05, 2007 4:44 pm |
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I'll never understand why people are actually defending Gore's hypocrisy. When that Christian minister was caught over the Gay thing, most of the people on STV were not as forgiving. This isn't a Republican-Democrat thing. This is a matter of the fact that Gore is telling us to do something, that he himself does not do.
I've seen people say that since Gore is rich, this is acceptable. My only response is...do you have a mental illness?
So since he's rich, he's free to do what he wants? Good message.
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WeAz
Commodore
Joined: 03 Apr 2004
Posts: 1519
Location: Where you aren't
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| Mon Mar 05, 2007 7:51 pm |
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| Quote: | | Gore's family has, for some time, held large stock holdings in Occidental (Oxy) Petroleum. |
His family. Did he buy it himself?
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