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Election 2008, The race for the White House
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Puck
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PostTue Jan 16, 2007 5:50 pm    

I think I could go for this guy!

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WeAz
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PostTue Jan 16, 2007 6:23 pm    

I hope that guy runs. He'll send every moderate running towards the democrats.

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Republican_Man
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PostTue Jan 16, 2007 6:27 pm    

Puck wrote:
I think I could go for this guy!


Trust me - you could. I've met him 4 times. He's my Congressman. Tancredo's a great man, a good conservative, an all-around good guy, nice, intelligent, personable...Honestly, I've heard some good personal stories about him. I'm proud to call him my Congressman, because he really is an outstanding public servant. He says things that are controversial (he was the guy who said we should bomb Mecca, but his words were taken entirely out of context, and he's a big illegal immigration reform hawk), but I'd have to call him my favorite politician.

I realize that's gotta seem like an oxymoron to most people, "favorite politician," but it's true. I really like him. I've seen him speak three times and talked to him after each speech, and I met him the fourth time at his campaign headquarters prior to the election. Yes, one could say it is easy to be deceived by a politician, but the character of this man isn't rooted in deception. He's all real.



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TrekkieMage
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PostTue Jan 16, 2007 6:42 pm    

Republican_Man wrote:
And here it comes!

Quote:
Senator Barack Obama Takes First Step Toward Presidential Bid

WASHINGTON � Feeling a wind at his back, freshman Sen. Barack Obama announced Tuesday that he is taking the step political pundits have been predicting for months and filing papers for a presidential exploratory committee.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,243918,00.html


From everything I've seen and read about him, he's my first pick of the names I've heard. He seems to be *far* more honest than any other politician in the news. But, I'd have to do more research before casting my vote.


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Republican_Man
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PostTue Jan 16, 2007 6:49 pm    

TrekkieMage wrote:
Republican_Man wrote:
And here it comes!

Quote:
Senator Barack Obama Takes First Step Toward Presidential Bid

WASHINGTON � Feeling a wind at his back, freshman Sen. Barack Obama announced Tuesday that he is taking the step political pundits have been predicting for months and filing papers for a presidential exploratory committee.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,243918,00.html


From everything I've seen and read about him, he's my first pick of the names I've heard. He seems to be *far* more honest than any other politician in the news. But, I'd have to do more research before casting my vote.


And I can tell you that Tom Tancredo, albeit conservative, is "*far* more honest than any other politician in the news." I can testify this from personal experience.

Barack Obama, however, is deceptive. How do I know this? He plays his moderation when, if you look at his record as a Senator and as a State Senator, he is incredibly liberal.



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WeAz
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PostTue Jan 16, 2007 7:20 pm    

And Tancredo is incredible conservative. Too much so socially. He'd put people off.

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Republican_Man
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PostTue Jan 16, 2007 7:45 pm    

WeAz wrote:
And Tancredo is incredible conservative.


At least he admits it.



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TrekkieMage
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PostTue Jan 16, 2007 9:39 pm    

I'm talking about honesty about his character - not his political track record. I caught a clip of an article about an autobiography he wrote a while ago - prior to any presidential aspirations. He openly admits that he screwed up as a teenager and as a young adult. He isn't afraid of the fact that he has an imperfect past. Lets compare this to politicians who hide behind the ideal that they have a perfect past - and none do.

He doesn't strike me as the politician who would do anything to get ahead in his career (I'm thinking George Allen's issues with his taxes, and the Alaskan bridge to nowhere...).

But again, this is just an impression that I've gotten, not a fact based thesis or well researched opinion.


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Puck
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PostTue Jan 16, 2007 9:47 pm    

TrekkieMage wrote:
But again, this is just an impression that I've gotten, not a fact based thesis or well researched opinion.


I think that's really the best basis that any of us have to go off of. You can research people and meet them in person, but really, you can never be sure how honest someone is. I agree with you and I believe Obama is a very honest and idealistic person. I'm not a big fan of his ideals, but as a person, he seems great.


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Republican_Man
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PostTue Jan 16, 2007 10:27 pm    

Okay, so he's honest about his personal life, which is most certainly a good and idealistic quality. He is a good man. But he is far from honest about his politics, which is very, very important when trying to become elected to such an office. Rather, he's deceptive about them and hides behind the phony idea that he's a centrist when he is really very liberal.

If I was voting solely on character, okay, Obama would be up there with Tancredo. But when you put honesty about political views and political views in general, I couldn't even consider voting for him, or being happy about him being elected to the office.

I remember his speech at the Democratic convention and it was very good, very well-given, and very convincing. But it shadowed the truth about his political views. He's a liberal, but he doesn't want the public to know that. I can't blame him, but if he wants to be known as the honest politician, he should be honest about where he stands.



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TrekkieMage
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PostTue Jan 16, 2007 10:55 pm    

I'm not sure anyone can honestly claim to be centrist anymore. The entire thing is a spectrum, so everyone falls slightly to one side or the other. And if they fall slightly to the left, the right cries out: OMG!!THEY'RE TOO LIBERAL!!!!!!11!!

But if they fall slightly to the right, the left cries: OMG!!THEY'RE TOO CONSERVATIVE!!!!!11!!

However, I do see a bit of what you're complaing about:

http://projects.washingtonpost.com/congress/members/o000167/key-votes/

Only once on there did he break from the Dems. However, several of those votes (like the stem cell research) were things that a majority of Americans seem to agree with him on, or are indifferent to.


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Republican_Man
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PostTue Jan 16, 2007 11:07 pm    

Yes, well, this isn't a matter of him being just "too liberal" for being only slightly on the left. Lieberman is quite liberal, but many conservatives like him and don't consider him "too liberal." So that is far from the case. I would consider voting for Lieberman for president, but never once would I consider voting for Obama. (And that of course has absolutely nothing to do with race.)

What Obama is is, simply put, a leftist, plain and simple. He is a very liberal person. It's nothing like what you detailed there, because it's the truth.



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Puck
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PostSat Jan 20, 2007 12:12 pm    

It's official....



Quote:


Hillary Clinton Launching Presidential Run

Jan. 20, 2006 � Sen. Hillary Clinton, D-N.Y., has announced that she is forming an exploratory committee for president, thereby launching a bid to become the first female chief executive of the United States.

"I'm in," she said on a Web site, hillaryclinton.com. "And I'm in to win.


http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=2810072&page=1


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Republican_Man
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PostSat Jan 20, 2007 9:34 pm    

Took her long enough


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Republican_Man
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PostMon Feb 05, 2007 8:12 pm    

A good analysis of the election thus far today in political analyst Dick Morris's latest column. And good news for Rudy.

Note to the Mods:
I got this from an e-mail (he e-mails his columns) so I can't just post part of it and link to it. Go to www.dickmorris.com to subscribe to his column.

Quote:
IT'S NOW A RUDY ROMP

By DICK MORRIS & EILEEN MCGANN

February 5, 2007 -- Until now, the status of front-runner in the
Republican primaries for president was jointly held by Arizona Sen. John
McCain and former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani. McCain is clearly no longer
the front-runner. In the last week or so, Giuliani has moved out to a
clear lead.

* McCain's latest fund-raising report, for the fourth quarter of 2006,
was pathethic: He raised only $1.7 million and has only pocket change -
$472,454 - on hand.

* A Fox News poll of Jan. 30-31 shows the former mayor jumping out to a
significant lead among Republicans - 34 to 22 percent.

* A Gallup poll taken Jan. 25-28 shows Giuliani is better liked by
Republicans than McCain -74 to 21 percent and more trusted to handle a
crisis (68-20). Some 60 percent say Giuliani "better understands the
problems of the average person," against 33 percent who pick McCain. By
58-34, America's Mayor is seen as the stronger leader.

Conversations with conservative activists also show a remarkable
openness to supporting Giuliani - a belief that he can overcome (perhaps
finesse) his pro-choice, pro-gun-control, pro-gay-rights and
pro-immigration positions. Feelings seem bitterer over McCain's role in Washington
battles - his opposition to the Bush tax cuts and his support for
"amnesty" for illegal immigrants and for campaign-finance reform.

Giuliani has developed an effective parry to charges that his
pro-choice stance would undo eight years of pro-life heavy lifting by the Bush
administration. He's saying he'd oppose partial-birth abortion and work
to continue to curtail Medicaid funding for abortion. More, he'd
appoint judges like Justices Samuel Alito and John Roberts to the Supreme
Court.

None of this means the race is over, of course. Even if McCain falters,
some candidate would likely gain traction as the "true conservative" in
the race. But who?

Massachusetts' former Gov. Mitt Romney is flailing, thanks to his
flip-flops over the last decade on abortion (pro-life, then pro choice, now
pro life again) and on gay issues. These reasonable concerns - and
unreasonable bigotry about a Mormon candidate - may doom him.

Former House Speaker Newt Gingrich seems stalled in the low teens in
the polls and not likely to move up.

So a dark horse will probably move up. These names are still obscure,
but get to know them - lightning will soon strike at least one: Arkansas
Gov. Mike Huckabee (our favorite), Kansas Sen. Sam Brownback,
ex-Virginia Gov. James S. Gilmore, former Wisconsin Gov. Tommy Thompson and
Reps. Duncan Hunter and Tom Tancredo.

If all the GOP's starters go on the disabled list, one of these minor
leaguers may make it to the World Series by capturing the Republican
domination. Of course, that "winner" will then have to face the Big Mean
Clinton Machine - which in the latest polls is looking likely to clean
the floor over in the other league.


And some news on Rudy!!!

Quote:
Former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani Files Candidacy Statement for 2008 Race

WASHINGTON � Making the most of his front-runner status, former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani on Monday moved closer to a 2008 campaign for president, adjusting his paperwork to file a "statement of candidacy" with the Federal Election Commission.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,250354,00.html


I met the mother of his campaign manager a few times before (she was friends with my grandmother and office manager at her building), but, sadly, she did last week after being forced into a coma as the result of a car accident. I hope this can be some happying news for her daughter. Whether or not you like Rudy, I hope you can agree with that.



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Puck
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PostMon Feb 05, 2007 9:13 pm    

Let me feign my excitement that liberals are now running as Republicans . Of course, after Bush, I'm sure we'll be lucky to get anyone labeled a Republican into the White House.

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WeAz
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PostMon Feb 05, 2007 9:15 pm    

I could vote for Giuliani. Not so for Tancredo.

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Republican_Man
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PostMon Feb 05, 2007 9:57 pm    

Puck wrote:
Let me feign my excitement that liberals are now running as Republicans . Of course, after Bush, I'm sure we'll be lucky to get anyone labeled a Republican into the White House.


I hope you're not calling Guiliani a liberal. He may not be a social conservative, but being socially conservative doesn't make one a true conservative. I'd call him much more of a true conservative than I'd ever call Bush.



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Puck
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PostMon Feb 05, 2007 10:02 pm    

Republican_Man wrote:
Puck wrote:
Let me feign my excitement that liberals are now running as Republicans . Of course, after Bush, I'm sure we'll be lucky to get anyone labeled a Republican into the White House.


I hope you're not calling Guiliani a liberal. He may not be a social conservative, but being socially conservative doesn't make one a true conservative. I'd call him much more of a true conservative than I'd ever call Bush.


According to whom, yourself?

A conservative needs to be in line socially, and economically on the issues, in my book. Of course, if he is willing to change some of his social stances...on gun control, abortion, and maybe homosexual rights, then I might be willing to jump aboard.


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Republican_Man
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PostMon Feb 05, 2007 10:24 pm    

A conservative needs to stand for the basic principles that make a conservative a conservative, and those are the principle of limited government and fiscal conservatism. Guiliani changed a three billion or so dollar deficit at the beginning of his term into a two billion or so dollar surplus at the end of his term - all while cutting taxes and shrinking the size of government. He's also strong as national security and decreased crime significantly as mayor.

My main problem with the Republican party and conservative movement is that it's been overrun by the social conservatives. I'm a social conservative, but only to an extent. I'm finding it difficult to reconcile my true conservative principles with my social conservative principles, however. I see the conservative movement today as different from that of Ronald Reagan, and I think that the Republican party has put too much focus on courting the evangelical, social conservative vote, and I think that's a mistake overall.

But so I believe fiscal responsibility/conservatism and the principles of limited government are what truly makes a conservative. And that, by all accounts, is the case, and I'd say Guiliani, looking at his record, is more conservative in the true sense of the term than Bush, though maybe I suppose they're about the same, considering all factors and what makes a neo-con (of which I am not).

I just watched an interview with Guiliani on Hannity and colmes. You should check it out later tonight when it's on FoxNews.com. He's better on social issues than I thought, and does not support gay marriage. My main distaste about him is that he's not much better on illegal immigration than Bush, but I'd trust him with national security like I would few others.


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WeAz
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PostMon Feb 05, 2007 10:28 pm    

Are there any Republican front-runners who aren't anti-gay?

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Republican_Man
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PostTue Feb 06, 2007 12:14 am    

You wanna play that game? Okay, I'll play.

Are there any Democratic front-runners who aren't anti-capitalism?
Are there any Democratic front-runners who aren't anti-life?
Are there any Democratic front-runners who aren't anti-family values?
Are there any Democratic front-runners who aren't liars?
Are there any Democratic front-runners who don't hate the rich?
Are there any Democratic front-runners who aren't pro-illegal immigration?

You want me to continue? My whole point is that playing that game is nothing short of despicable. It doesn't make any sense, and that's not the kind of politics you should play. If you support keeping marriage the way it's been - maintaining traditional marriage - you're anti-gay? Ridiculous. Absolutely ridiculous.



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Puck
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PostTue Feb 06, 2007 12:21 am    

And now that you've both had your fun, back to campaign announcements.

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Republican_Man
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PostTue Feb 06, 2007 12:25 am    

Having to defend against a baseless attack against good men (including folks I detest and disagree with like McCain) isn't fun, you know.

Anyways, I would like Tancredo to get the nomination, but that's not going to happen. I was very, very impressed with Guiliani's display tonight. He really did well and really seemed presidential. I think that Guiliani's going to end up being my guy, and he may very well win the nomination and has a good chance at being our next president.



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