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Theresa
Lux Mihi Deus
Joined: 17 Jun 2001
Posts: 27256
Location: United States of America
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 Sat Feb 03, 2007 5:35 pm France Tells U.S. to Sign Climate Pacts or Face Tax |
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| Quote: | By KATRIN BENNHOLD
PARIS, Jan. 31 � President Jacques Chirac has demanded that the United States sign both the Kyoto climate protocol and a future agreement that will take effect when the Kyoto accord runs out in 2012.
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Given who this comes from, I find it... amusing.
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Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant
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| Sat Feb 03, 2007 5:40 pm |
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He's demanding it?
Wow...coming from Chirac...I feel so much fear. We better get to it quick!
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Puck
The Texan
Joined: 05 Jan 2004
Posts: 5596
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| Sat Feb 03, 2007 6:12 pm |
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Sounds like France has an easier time threatening us than they did Iraq or Iran  .
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La Forge
Bajoran Colonel
Joined: 16 Feb 2006
Posts: 2125
Location: Babylon 5
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| Sat Feb 03, 2007 6:16 pm |
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I'm not opposed to it. It sounds like a good idea. The environment is important and if this helps it out, go for it, France. Demand away. I doubt Bush will listen, anyways. Bush is deaf to the rest of the world. And, I don't have any grudge with France about Iraq, either.
Maybe that's just because I'm sympathetic to France. 
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Go Red Sox!
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WeAz
Commodore
Joined: 03 Apr 2004
Posts: 1519
Location: Where you aren't
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| Sat Feb 03, 2007 6:39 pm |
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I hope he does sign it. And recognize the ICC. Bush doesn't seem to care about Int'l opinion. He is deaf to the world.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Sat Feb 03, 2007 7:44 pm |
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The Kyoto protocol would do nothing but hurt our economy, plain and simple. For France to make this pronouncement is just funny, considering all they've done. It's even more clear now that we're their enemy more than Iraq ever was and Iran is.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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WeAz
Commodore
Joined: 03 Apr 2004
Posts: 1519
Location: Where you aren't
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| Sat Feb 03, 2007 10:35 pm |
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Because they don't listen to what we say?
Sometimes you have to make sacrifices, to lessen the impact of Global Warming. You Republicans are all so short-term. I'm guessing by your silence about the ICC, you either agree with me, or won't admit what you think.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Sat Feb 03, 2007 11:19 pm |
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Do you know anything about the Kyoto Protocol? It would only reduce the temperature by less than one degree celsius over, like, 20 years, if I recall correctly. It would be disastrous for the economy and do nothing for the environment.
Second of all, the short-term is already being considered by businesses. I can name several enterprises that are starting to produce new technologies and make money to help the environment. The latest edition of Business 2.0 magazine is entitled, "Go Green. Get Rich." The way things are starting to go, the government doesn't need to get that involved in environmental regulations here anyway. Businesses are starting to do it themselves.
Third of all, the threat level of global warming is debatable. It is entirely debatable to the extent which the problem may go, and therefore makes it pointless to institute the Kyoto Protocol anyway.
And what's the ICC again?
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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WeAz
Commodore
Joined: 03 Apr 2004
Posts: 1519
Location: Where you aren't
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| Sat Feb 03, 2007 11:41 pm |
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International Criminal Court. 104 members, with the US and China still refusing to join. Bush's refusal to join pretty much said: "I'll do what I want, and be damned if you tell me what to do".
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Sun Feb 04, 2007 12:04 am |
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Ah. Well, it looks like the US has legitimate reasons not to join. http://www.asil.org/insights/insigh87.htm
Also, Clinton signed it as an executive agreement (which succeeding presidents do not have to honor), but according to the above article, he recommended that Bush not submit it to the Senate for ratification "until our fundamental concerns are satisfied." I think the administration's concerns are legitimate and that we should not sign the treaty until they are cleared up. Reading what I've read on Wikipedia, I, too, see problems with the agreement, and I agree with President Clinton the President should not submit the treaty to the Senate for ratification.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Puck
The Texan
Joined: 05 Jan 2004
Posts: 5596
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| Sun Feb 04, 2007 12:14 am |
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The ICC is a joke. Half of the world is too scared to take non-military action on Iran, but we are going to hold ourselves accountable to some international court . I don't think so. Talk about a stupid idea. The United States is a government of the people (it's citizens). By letting some international court come in and have a say in our government goes against democracy, and completely undermines the power of the American people, and the entire American system. The US joining an 'international court' is one of the worst ideas that I have ever heard.
The legislative branch is controlled by the people, and the head of the executive branch is elected by the people. Americans control what the government does. So I'll go with Bush and say to hell with what the rest of the world wants.
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WeAz
Commodore
Joined: 03 Apr 2004
Posts: 1519
Location: Where you aren't
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| Sun Feb 04, 2007 2:45 am |
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So you're saying we shouldn't care what the world thinks?
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Puck
The Texan
Joined: 05 Jan 2004
Posts: 5596
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| Sun Feb 04, 2007 2:51 am |
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| WeAz wrote: | | So you're saying we shouldn't care what the world thinks? |
More or less, yes.
This government is based on what the American citizens think, not what the leaders of other countries, or some international court thinks.
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PrankishSmart
Rear Admiral
Joined: 29 Apr 2002
Posts: 4779
Location: Hobart, Australia.
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| Sun Feb 04, 2007 5:28 am |
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| Republican_Man wrote: | | Do you know anything about the Kyoto Protocol? It would only reduce the temperature by less than one degree celsius over, like, 20 years, if I recall correctly. It would be disastrous for the economy and do nothing for the environment. |
Do you know anything about the environment? I would just like to chip in my 2c and say 1 degree C is a HUGE difference world-wide over just 20 years. I don't know much about the kyoto protocol or politics, but how can you say 1 degree won't make a difference? Are you a scientist? I query this in not a disrespectful way, simply, a curious way.
I find America�s attitude to climate change� somewhat bizarre. It�s either, implement protocols left right & centre and police that for some things, but other things are met with pure ignorance.
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WeAz
Commodore
Joined: 03 Apr 2004
Posts: 1519
Location: Where you aren't
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| Sun Feb 04, 2007 3:25 pm |
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| Puck wrote: | | WeAz wrote: | | So you're saying we shouldn't care what the world thinks? |
More or less, yes.
This government is based on what the American citizens think, not what the leaders of other countries, or some international court thinks. |
Shouldn't we respect what the international community thinks?
America is supposed to be the leader of the free world. But right, we're ignoring them.
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Theresa
Lux Mihi Deus
Joined: 17 Jun 2001
Posts: 27256
Location: United States of America
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| Sun Feb 04, 2007 3:32 pm |
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| WeAz wrote: | Shouldn't we respect what the international community thinks?
America is supposed to be the leader of the free world. But right, we're ignoring them. |
We are? From who's POV, please?
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WeAz
Commodore
Joined: 03 Apr 2004
Posts: 1519
Location: Where you aren't
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| Sun Feb 04, 2007 3:41 pm |
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Thats the position we (supposedly) occupied during the Cold War.
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Theresa
Lux Mihi Deus
Joined: 17 Jun 2001
Posts: 27256
Location: United States of America
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| Sun Feb 04, 2007 3:42 pm |
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Ok. I was just wondering from what perspective that comment came. Thanks! 
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Some of us fall by the wayside
And some of us soar to the stars
And some of us sail through our troubles
And some have to live with our scars
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Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant
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| Sun Feb 04, 2007 4:02 pm |
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I agree we shouldn't ignore the global community and I agree that something should be done about the enviornment. The reason this is funny is that Chirac is threatening the US with taxes if we don't comply.
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Puck
The Texan
Joined: 05 Jan 2004
Posts: 5596
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| Sun Feb 04, 2007 9:15 pm |
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| WeAz wrote: | | Puck wrote: | | WeAz wrote: | | So you're saying we shouldn't care what the world thinks? |
More or less, yes.
This government is based on what the American citizens think, not what the leaders of other countries, or some international court thinks. |
Shouldn't we respect what the international community thinks?
America is supposed to be the leader of the free world. But right, we're ignoring them. |
I never said we shouldn't respect what the world thinks. But we already have the UN to pass resolutions and condemn things that they don't like. All I am saying is that we shouldn't necessarily base our decisions on the opinions of people that Americans didn't elect.
American policy makers are primarily to be held accountable by the American people and the American court system, not to some international court.
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