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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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 Mon Dec 11, 2006 2:35 am Renegade Cleric Defies Pope |
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| Quote: | Excommunicated Archbishop Ordains Two Married Men as Priests in New Jersey
WEST NEW YORK, New Jersey � An excommunicated Roman Catholic archbishop continued his defiance of the Vatican when he ordained two married men as priests.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,235777,00.html |
This defiance is somewhat disturbing, but since he's excommunicated anyways, I don't see how this would be acceptable anyways, much less taking into account the fact that the priests are married.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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TrekkieMage
Office Junkie
Joined: 17 Oct 2004
Posts: 5335
Location: Hiding
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| Mon Dec 11, 2006 3:37 pm |
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I don't really see how this is a huge rebellion. I understand that the Church wants their priests to be "married" to the church, however, it seems unreasonable to me that they'd throw a hissy fit about two men who love these women as much as they love their church.
My minister used to be a Roman Catholic priest until he wanted to marry, and when they wouldn't let him he became the minister of my Episcopalian church. He is a wonderful, devoutly religious and caring man who is deeply devoted to our church.
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Arellia
The Quiet One
Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Posts: 4425
Location: Dallas, TX
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| Mon Dec 11, 2006 4:01 pm |
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Personally, I think a person is missing a lot if they don't get married, and it can cause more problems for many... that's just me, though. I see it useful to have a religious leader who has experienced marriage, children, and is a well-rounded person. I can see the Catholic church's reasons for wanting someone who's shown so much sacrifice to God that they won't even marry... my own feelings about how God would regard that are very different.  I suppose this is why there are so many denominations, and what the catholic church does about this issue depends on how the believers react.
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Puck
The Texan
Joined: 05 Jan 2004
Posts: 5596
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| Mon Dec 11, 2006 6:04 pm |
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The Eastern Catholic Churches allowed married men to become priest. It is only the Roman Catholic Churches that do not allow married men as priests (for the most part). However, throughout the Church, no one can get married after they have become a priest...Eastern Catholics can only get married beforehand.
This guy was also married within another non-Catholic Church I believe, which is also wrong. I might take his point to let priests marry seriously if he didn't seem bent on disobeying the Church.
The priests he ordained though may be valid, although I am not sure, and will have to check.
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TrekkieMage
Office Junkie
Joined: 17 Oct 2004
Posts: 5335
Location: Hiding
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| Mon Dec 11, 2006 6:14 pm |
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That frustrates me a little bit. I understand wanting to have faithful priests, but how can one's faith to the church be "valid"?
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WeAz
Commodore
Joined: 03 Apr 2004
Posts: 1519
Location: Where you aren't
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| Mon Dec 11, 2006 8:53 pm |
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So, now you can't be devoutly religious and be married? I really want to see the logic trail on that one... 
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Mon Dec 11, 2006 9:08 pm |
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| WeAz wrote: | | So, now you can't be devoutly religious and be married? I really want to see the logic trail on that one... |
Now? This isn't a new concept, Catholic priests needing to be and remain celebate and unmarried 
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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IntrepidIsMe
Pimp Handed
Joined: 14 Jun 2002
Posts: 13057
Location: New York
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| Mon Dec 11, 2006 9:47 pm |
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There are some Catholic priests who are legitimately married. Although strange, this step this excommunicated priest has taken isn't really toooooo far off. Although still unlikely.
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"Nelly, I am Heathcliff! He's always, always in my mind: not as a pleasure, any more than I am always a pleasure to myself, but as my own being."
-Wuthering Heights
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WeAz
Commodore
Joined: 03 Apr 2004
Posts: 1519
Location: Where you aren't
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| Mon Dec 11, 2006 10:56 pm |
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| Quote: | | Now? This isn't a new concept, Catholic priests needing to be and remain celebate and unmarried |
I know, but I've heard of the rule being broken, and no punishment was given.
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Puck
The Texan
Joined: 05 Jan 2004
Posts: 5596
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| Tue Dec 12, 2006 12:06 am |
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| TrekkieMage wrote: | | That frustrates me a little bit. I understand wanting to have faithful priests, but how can one's faith to the church be "valid"? |
This isn't whether or not their faith is valid. It is whether or not their ordination was valid. In this case I am unsure. While the bishop is excommunicated, he still might be able to ordain other priests especially if the ordinations met the specifications on proper form, matter, and intent. Not everyone is called to the priesthood. It's not just something where you go, I want to be a priest, therefore I have the right to be one. That's not how the Church works.
| Quote: | | Catholic priests needing to be and remain celebate and unmarried |
Not completly true. First of all, this is not a dogma of the faith. Second of all, Rome allows Eastern right priests to enter the priesthood while married. In the Roman right, there are also a few valid married priests (mostly those who have come to the Catholic Church as converts from the Episcopal denomination). This is perfectly fine as long as Rome has oked it. It is important that priests in the Roman right take a vow of celibacy. They make a vow on their own free will to remain celebate.
The rules on having single priests in the Roman Catholic Church though could possibly change in the future. This certainly isn't something that is set in stone like some of the other things though. Also, priests aren't the only ones who are considered devout religious...so to say that the Church only allows single people to be considered devout is ignorant. There is nothing stopping a married couple from being just as devout, or moreso, than a priest.
This isn't the only problem this archbishop has had with the Vatican though...he has quite the history of problems. First off, he was married, after he had been ordained, outside of the Church. Catholics for the most part are not to marry outside the Church.
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Starbuck
faster...
Joined: 19 Feb 2003
Posts: 8715
Location: between chaos and melody
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| Tue Dec 12, 2006 8:29 am |
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The idea that a preist shouldn't be married came about in the 7th century around the same time that the idea of "inherritance" came about. Roman Catholic preists couldn't be married because they didn't want their wives inheriting the church.
I did my homework on this one, check it out.
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