| How does this new research change your opinion on stem cells? |
| Still against embryonic stem cell research. |
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27% |
[ 5 ] |
| Embyronic stem cell research is more reasonable with this technology. |
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16% |
[ 3 ] |
| I was for embryonic stem cell research before this and still am. |
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55% |
[ 10 ] |
| I have yet to form an opinion. |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
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| Total Votes : 18 |
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Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant
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 Sat Dec 02, 2006 2:26 am |
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| WeAz wrote: | It wasn't a joke.
And, by your logic, if I treated all things like they would be, I have to treat you like you're dead. Because eventually, thats what will happen. |
What? There is no comparison. By your logic, if you saw the primordial goo that life stemmed from, you would say it's acceptable to wipe out the Human race because it's not quite Human yet.
Enjoying the far fetchedness of it all?
I didn't say treat all things like they would be, now did I? I'm saying that the forced killing is wrong and it's pretty wrong to make yourself feel better by twisting it and saying it isn't life.
It's one thing to honor life, it's another to treat someone like they're dead.
Now, I support embryonic research to help those with diseases, but I can never in good conscience delude myself into believing it isn't a life that is being destroyed to save others. I certainly won't twist it and try and spread the word it's ok to do this because of some technicality, some loophole, that you found to justify it.
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WeAz
Commodore
Joined: 03 Apr 2004
Posts: 1519
Location: Where you aren't
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| Sat Dec 02, 2006 2:32 am |
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You're dealing with the future, what the embryo will/might be, what it will grow into.
I am dealing with the present. It's not a human life when we take it apart, so its not killing.
And here's another question. Say the Embryo does have a soul. It exists in a petri dish. It does not feel, breathe, or think. Its not even growing, its frozen, and is most likely going to stay that way forever. Is that soul, in a petri dish, more important than the souls of the millions of people with diseases that it could cure?
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Sat Dec 02, 2006 2:35 am |
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Embryos - which, though not necessarily scientifically provable - are human life, and all human life is sacred. No innocent life is more important than another innocent life, and nor should one innocent life should be sacrificed for another.
That said, I finally voted. 2nd option.
-------signature-------
"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant
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| Sat Dec 02, 2006 2:37 am |
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| WeAz wrote: | You're dealing with the future, what the embryo will/might be, what it will grow into.
Yes, because that is a little detail I won't ignore in an effort to justify the killing.
I am dealing with the present. It's not a human life when we take it apart, so its not killing.
Again, you're arguing semantics. You're saying it's ok to "destroy" it because technically it's not really Human.
And here's another question. Say the Embryo does have a soul. It exists in a petri dish. It does not feel, breathe, or think. Its not even growing, its frozen, and is most likely going to stay that way forever. Is that soul, in a petri dish, more important than the souls of the millions of people with diseases that it could cure? |
No, which is why I just finished saying that I support it to help the other people that are suffering. My point is that I'm not going to lie to myself and spoon feed myself technicalities in Webster's dictionary in an effort to justify it. I feel it's a neccessary evil, sadly.
If you have to dance around the definition and stretch the meaning, maybe, just maybe, it's not necessarily as simplistic as you all are making it.
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WeAz
Commodore
Joined: 03 Apr 2004
Posts: 1519
Location: Where you aren't
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| Sat Dec 02, 2006 2:39 am |
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I'm not saying its not really human. I'm saying its not human.
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Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant
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| Sat Dec 02, 2006 2:42 am |
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From your point of view. Not everyone believes that and others put value in the fact that it will become life.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Sat Dec 02, 2006 3:09 am |
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| Founder wrote: | | From your point of view. Not everyone believes that and others put value in the fact that it will become life. |
It's life already. I would say that i's better said that others put value in the fact that it is a developing human life.
-------signature-------
"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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TrekkieMage
Office Junkie
Joined: 17 Oct 2004
Posts: 5335
Location: Hiding
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| Sat Dec 02, 2006 12:27 pm |
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I think "developing human life" is the best term. I will become human life, the cells are alive, but as a human life there is no way it can survive on its own. It's also usually prior to the critical stage of being naturally implanted in a womans body - which doesn't always happen (I can't find a source for the odds of it happening, but I seem to remember the it being something like 20% of embryos in this stage don't get naturally implanted and just die).
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WeAz
Commodore
Joined: 03 Apr 2004
Posts: 1519
Location: Where you aren't
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| Sat Dec 02, 2006 1:48 pm |
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But these embryo's aren't growing! They're frozen.
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TrekkieMage
Office Junkie
Joined: 17 Oct 2004
Posts: 5335
Location: Hiding
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| Sat Dec 02, 2006 6:20 pm |
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| WeAz wrote: | | But these embryo's aren't growing! They're frozen. |
They *can* grow though. They are frozen to prevent them from dying in case the parents decide to implant them sometime in the future.
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La Forge
Bajoran Colonel
Joined: 16 Feb 2006
Posts: 2125
Location: Babylon 5
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| Sat Dec 02, 2006 6:49 pm |
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| Quote: | | ...and all human life is sacred. |
Sorry, RM? Why is all human life sacred? Is only human life sacred, in your eyes?
-------signature-------
You'll never hear me say this again in my life, but...
Go Red Sox!
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Puck
The Texan
Joined: 05 Jan 2004
Posts: 5596
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| Sat Dec 02, 2006 8:21 pm |
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Governments are instituted to protect human life. The United States was founded on the fact that all men are created equally and have certain unalieanable rights, among these are life, liberty, and the persuit of happiness. Governments primary purpose is to protect these rights for each individual it governs. It is clear in the Declaration of Independence that the United States was founded upon this belief, thus demonstrating that our society values life.
| Quote: | | We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal, that they are endowed, by their Creator, with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness. |
What makes human life most sacred is that humans are made in the image and likeness of God. God grants the right to life at the first moment of conception and from then on no one has the right to unjustly end that life. The reason that no person has the right to unjustly end life is because the right to life is not granted by a person, but is granted by God. Because God made life, it is good, and because human life was made in the image and likeness of Him, it is sacred.
What makes this even worse is that to destroy life at such an early stage when it is so innocent and defenseless is inexcusable, and shows no respect whatsoever to the dignity of the human person.
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La Forge
Bajoran Colonel
Joined: 16 Feb 2006
Posts: 2125
Location: Babylon 5
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| Sat Dec 02, 2006 8:32 pm |
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Well, that's all fine and good, but, I don't believe in God. I just wanted to ask that and all. These stem cell topics though...Argh. It's like a war-zone.
-------signature-------
You'll never hear me say this again in my life, but...
Go Red Sox!
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Sun Dec 03, 2006 12:29 am |
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| La Forge wrote: | | Well, that's all fine and good, but, I don't believe in God. I just wanted to ask that and all. These stem cell topics though...Argh. It's like a war-zone. |
But 90% PLUS of this country does believe in God.
-------signature-------
"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Puck
The Texan
Joined: 05 Jan 2004
Posts: 5596
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| Sun Dec 03, 2006 12:54 am |
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| La Forge wrote: | | These stem cell topics though...Argh. It's like a war-zone. |
Definately, I try not to post in these kind of topics unless there is just something that I feel I have to say. I would keep posting, but usually to do so would just be beating a dead horse  .
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WeAz
Commodore
Joined: 03 Apr 2004
Posts: 1519
Location: Where you aren't
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| Sun Dec 03, 2006 1:14 am |
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| Republican_Man wrote: | | La Forge wrote: | | Well, that's all fine and good, but, I don't believe in God. I just wanted to ask that and all. These stem cell topics though...Argh. It's like a war-zone. |
But 90% PLUS of this country does believe in God. |
But, thankfully, most of us aren't ensnared in dogma to reject Stem Cell research.
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Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant
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| Sun Dec 03, 2006 1:20 am |
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| WeAz wrote: | | Republican_Man wrote: | | La Forge wrote: | | Well, that's all fine and good, but, I don't believe in God. I just wanted to ask that and all. These stem cell topics though...Argh. It's like a war-zone. |
But 90% PLUS of this country does believe in God. |
But, thankfully, most of us aren't ensnared in dogma to reject Stem Cell research. |
That's a rather simplistic way to look at it.
I'm "ensnared in dogma" as you claim, yet I support it. Can you explain that?
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Sun Dec 03, 2006 1:23 am |
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| WeAz wrote: | | Republican_Man wrote: | | La Forge wrote: | | Well, that's all fine and good, but, I don't believe in God. I just wanted to ask that and all. These stem cell topics though...Argh. It's like a war-zone. |
But 90% PLUS of this country does believe in God. |
But, thankfully, most of us aren't ensnared in dogma to reject Stem Cell research. |
I don't reject Stem Cell research. Only conventional embryonic stem cell research. This new method is acceptable to me.
-------signature-------
"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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WeAz
Commodore
Joined: 03 Apr 2004
Posts: 1519
Location: Where you aren't
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| Sun Dec 03, 2006 2:23 pm |
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| Founder wrote: | | WeAz wrote: | | Republican_Man wrote: | | La Forge wrote: | | Well, that's all fine and good, but, I don't believe in God. I just wanted to ask that and all. These stem cell topics though...Argh. It's like a war-zone. |
But 90% PLUS of this country does believe in God. |
But, thankfully, most of us aren't ensnared in dogma to reject Stem Cell research. |
That's a rather simplistic way to look at it.
I'm "ensnared in dogma" as you claim, yet I support it. Can you explain that? |
You're letting a false belief about Stem Cell's get in the way of understanding the issue.
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