| Should T'Pol exist? |
| Yes |
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79% |
[ 23 ] |
| No |
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13% |
[ 4 ] |
| Great actress, but shouldn't technically be there |
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6% |
[ 2 ] |
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| Total Votes : 29 |
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StarfleetCommand74656
Captain
Joined: 22 May 2006
Posts: 653
Location: On STV
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 Sat Jul 22, 2006 6:37 am Should T'Pol exist? |
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We are told in numerous books and episodes that Spock is starfleet's first Vulcan. So how come there is a Vulcan on the NX01? Unless 23rd century Starfleet has a very bad memory...
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lionhead
Rear Admiral
Joined: 26 May 2004
Posts: 4020
Location: The Delta Quadrant (or not...)
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| Sat Jul 22, 2006 8:32 am |
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you can also say: "Spock is the first Vulcan-Human hybrid on starfleet"(though in ENT Phlox says Humans and Vulcans can't mix)
-------signature-------
Never explain comedy or satire or the ironic comment. Those who get it, get it. Those who don't, never will. -Michael Moore
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Lord Borg
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 27 May 2003
Posts: 11214
Location: Vulcan Capital City, Vulcan
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| Sat Jul 22, 2006 10:54 am |
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Uh... sorry, but I found (Can't find the exact link yet) on MA that it was never canologicly said Spock was the first Vulcan in starfleet.
Eh, they mix now that's the whole point
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StarfleetCommand74656
Captain
Joined: 22 May 2006
Posts: 653
Location: On STV
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| Mon Jul 24, 2006 1:23 pm Do the books count as canon? |
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I've read tens of Trek novels where the anti-Spock-prejudice/ first Vulcan in Starfleet issue is bought up. Shall I name some?- or do the booklists not qualify as canon?
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Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant
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| Mon Jul 24, 2006 1:56 pm Re: Do the books count as canon? |
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| StarfleetCommand74656 wrote: | | I've read tens of Trek novels where the anti-Spock-prejudice/ first Vulcan in Starfleet issue is bought up. Shall I name some?- or do the booklists not qualify as canon? |
It doesn't matter. Books are not canon. So whatever they say, did NOT happen.
Not to mention, it wouldn't be surprised that Spock went through a lot of crap. I'm sure even by the 23rd century, there are still racist pricks. Also, maybe Spock is the first Vulcan in Starfleet while the FEDERATION was in existance. Also, did you notice there weren't many Vulcans in Starfleet in Spock's time? He would still get a lot of crap being the only Vulcan in Starfleet at that TIME.
Besides...when someone looks like this...
...you don't question their existance. You thank God they exist...oh wait...I may offend athiests. You thank evolution they exist. 
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Lord Borg
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 27 May 2003
Posts: 11214
Location: Vulcan Capital City, Vulcan
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| Mon Jul 24, 2006 2:14 pm |
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Yeah, you can't count the books as a canon source.
And Founder? Good point about what someone looks like and exsistance! 
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Lord Borg
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 27 May 2003
Posts: 11214
Location: Vulcan Capital City, Vulcan
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| Mon Jul 24, 2006 2:38 pm |
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From Wikipedia
(Yes, you are allowed to quote them...)
| Wikipedia, Spock Trivia wrote: | | Many fans believe that Spock is the first Vulcan to join Starfleet, a fact that appears to be contradicted by the series Star Trek: Enterprise; in fact, there is no reference to Spock being the first. It has been suggested that he is the first to graduate from Starfleet Academy, however. Note: some official documentation from Paramount such as the startrek.com website support the first-Vulcan-in-Starfleet theory, as do some original Trek novels, however these sources are not considered canon: only what is shown on screen is considered canon in the Star Trek universe. |
So, in reading that, Canologicly, there has been NO mention of Spock being the first Vulcan in Starfleet.
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Vincent
Lieutenant
Joined: 01 Dec 2001
Posts: 187
Location: Jilvian Colony,Luna(Earths Moon)
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| Wed Sep 06, 2006 12:41 am |
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Ive never seen or read any sites or books that say spock was the first vulcan to join starfleet.I know he took along time to join because he was so against serving with humans.
I had to edit this post it was to embarrassing 
Last edited by Vincent on Thu Sep 07, 2006 1:32 am; edited 2 times in total
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Lord Borg
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 27 May 2003
Posts: 11214
Location: Vulcan Capital City, Vulcan
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| Wed Sep 06, 2006 1:08 am |
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I don't recall them mentioning T'Pol
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JupiterPrime
Lieutenant
Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 208
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| Wed Sep 06, 2006 12:44 pm |
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| Vincent wrote: | | Ive never seen or read any sites or books that say spock was the first vulcan to join starfleet.I know he took along time to join because he was so against serving with humans.I do have a feeling t'pol was the first because even on the TOS series when spock and kirk fight to the death, kirk mentions that t'pol was the first vulcan to reject a seat on the high counsel and she was old then and spock was young, so it gives me a high suggestion that t'pol was the first to join starfleet in my opinion. |
You're talking about T'Pau - the female Vulcan Syranite in the ENTERPRISE episodes of THE FORGE, AWAKENING and KIR'SHARA and the TOS episode of AMOK TIME
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Lord Borg
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 27 May 2003
Posts: 11214
Location: Vulcan Capital City, Vulcan
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| Wed Sep 06, 2006 5:06 pm |
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Ah! I was thinking it could have actually been T'Pau. Yeah, she was offered a seat on the Federation Council, but declined, in this case, people are talking about Starfleet Officers . Over the years, the fan base decided to make up the fact Spock was the first, something paramount never involved it self in, nor had to follow, yet one of many of such facts that people complained the Ent "Violated" but thats another story...
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Vincent
Lieutenant
Joined: 01 Dec 2001
Posts: 187
Location: Jilvian Colony,Luna(Earths Moon)
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| Thu Sep 07, 2006 1:18 am |
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"I really goofed" Sorry for the mix-up  I can see why the topic would be up for debate with enterprise changing everything.
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ZiriDelvar
Lieutenant, Junior Grade
Joined: 20 Aug 2005
Posts: 79
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| Sun Sep 17, 2006 6:30 pm |
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T'Pol's character was fine, but she shouldn't have joined Starfleet.
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StarfleetCommand74656
Captain
Joined: 22 May 2006
Posts: 653
Location: On STV
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| Sat Oct 07, 2006 2:39 pm Re: Do the books count as canon? |
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| Founder wrote: | | StarfleetCommand74656 wrote: | | I've read tens of Trek novels where the anti-Spock-prejudice/ first Vulcan in Starfleet issue is bought up. Shall I name some?- or do the booklists not qualify as canon? |
It doesn't matter. Books are not canon. So whatever they say, did NOT happen.
Not to mention, it wouldn't be surprised that Spock went through a lot of crap. I'm sure even by the 23rd century, there are still racist pricks. Also, maybe Spock is the first Vulcan in Starfleet while the FEDERATION was in existance. Also, did you notice there weren't many Vulcans in Starfleet in Spock's time? He would still get a lot of crap being the only Vulcan in Starfleet at that TIME.
Besides...when someone looks like this...
...you don't question their existance. You thank God they exist...oh wait...I may offend athiests. You thank evolution they exist. |
I agree- I wasny questioning Jolene Blalock's existence- evolution forbid- but the character T'Pol's. Who by the way I think will end up being captain of the NX01 on its next mission
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Lord Borg
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 27 May 2003
Posts: 11214
Location: Vulcan Capital City, Vulcan
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| Sat Oct 07, 2006 10:54 pm |
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The Overall point is, people are complaining she exsisted, and citing spock was the first. Where was that said? (That is, in smething on screen) It wasn't. It was said Spock and his father fought over the decision, but, remember, the INtrepid ws an all Vulcan crew. Starfleet tends to give that to starfleet officers.
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Lynx
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 277
Location: The Lynx Empire
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| Sat Nov 11, 2006 10:01 am |
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No!
Spock was the first Vulcan in Starfleet.
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TrekkieMage
Office Junkie
Joined: 17 Oct 2004
Posts: 5335
Location: Hiding
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| Sat Nov 11, 2006 1:44 pm |
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| Lynx wrote: | No!
Spock was the first Vulcan in Starfleet. |
According to what source?
It certainly irked me that there was a Vulcan before Spock in Starfleet, but if it was never actually said on screen then I'll accept it. Although, I haven't seen enough TOS to really know that
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Sonic74205
Rear Admiral
Joined: 01 Feb 2004
Posts: 4081
Location: England
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| Wed Dec 13, 2006 11:52 am |
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T'Pol is my favorite character from enterprise and i am definatly glad she is there.
Besides T'Pol isnt with starfleet. She is with the Vulcan High Command with the rank of Sub-commander. That rank isnt used in starfleet.
-------signature-------
<a href="<img>http://sonic.11.forumer.com</a>
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Lord Borg
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 27 May 2003
Posts: 11214
Location: Vulcan Capital City, Vulcan
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| Wed Dec 13, 2006 6:34 pm |
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Well, in seasons 1 and 2 yes. In season 3 she had no rank, and in season 4 she had the rank of commander. I dont see the problem, no one had ever said spock was the first in Starfleet, and if he was, it was Federation Starfleet.
-------signature-------
When you cried I'd wipe away all of your tears
When you'd scream I'd fight away all of your fears
And I held your hand through all of these years
But you still have
All of me
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djlazerx
Lieutenant, Junior Grade
Joined: 21 Dec 2006
Posts: 71
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| Sat Dec 23, 2006 5:21 am |
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Yes tpol was only serving with the Enterpise crew like incheb and neelix serve with the voyager crew. I have never seen tpol wear a starfleet uniform except in the mirror universe.
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KlingonHomeWorld31
Commander
Joined: 15 Jul 2001
Posts: 435
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| Sat Dec 23, 2006 1:57 pm |
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Why dont we ask B&B, they probably couldnt figure which vulcan served first in starfleet either after making these *mess up the timeline* series. Its enough to give you a headache which served first.
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jose cuervo
Ensign, Junior Grade
Joined: 08 Dec 2006
Posts: 32
Location: MA
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| Sat Dec 23, 2006 7:33 pm |
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she's such a cool character that even if technically she's not supposed to be there, i'm glad she is. (not that i know much about such technicalities anyway).
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ILoveHarry
Admiral
Joined: 14 Jan 2004
Posts: 7909
Location: Houston
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| Sat Dec 23, 2006 7:46 pm |
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LB and Founder say she SHOULD... and that it makes sense... and they know EVERYTHING Trek. So... yeah.
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Federation G-Force5
Lieutenant, Junior Grade
Joined: 10 Dec 2001
Posts: 98
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| Sun Dec 24, 2006 3:02 am |
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I liked T'pol in enterprise and im glad she existed. I could care less who was the first vulcan to serve in starfleet.
I voted yes. 
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Jaca
Freshman Cadet
Joined: 23 Dec 2006
Posts: 9
Location: Split, Croatia
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| Sun Dec 24, 2006 10:12 am |
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I think somebody said this before me, but I'm not sure. T'pol was in Vulcan High Command (not Starfleet) and she was helping humans. At that time there was no Federation (no 'real' Federation Starfleet) So that means Spock was the 1st Vulcan in [Federation] Starfleet ^^
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