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WeAz
Commodore
Joined: 03 Apr 2004
Posts: 1519
Location: Where you aren't
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 Tue Oct 10, 2006 7:49 pm |
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I hope if was a bluster. It means they aren't that much closer to having a nuke.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Tue Oct 10, 2006 8:03 pm |
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Then again...
| FoxNews.com Breaking News Bar wrote: | | Japan's Foreign Ministry Says it Suspects North Korea Has Conducted Another Nuclear Test |
If so, I laugh at what Korea said it would do yesterday.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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CJ Cregg
Commodore
Joined: 05 Oct 2002
Posts: 1254
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| Tue Oct 10, 2006 8:10 pm |
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I still have my doubts over whether it was a nuclear device or just a massive conventional one.
Until evidence comes out i have doubts.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Tue Oct 10, 2006 8:25 pm |
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| CJ Cregg wrote: | I still have my doubts over whether it was a nuclear device or just a massive conventional one.
Until evidence comes out i have doubts. |
Same here, btw. Link to the AP article.
-------signature-------
"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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CJ Cregg
Commodore
Joined: 05 Oct 2002
Posts: 1254
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| Tue Oct 10, 2006 8:29 pm |
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Unfortunately if you watched the media it would seem like NK has launched a missile at the US or something. Too much sensationalism.
A reason i dont watch the TV media.
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Link, the Hero of Time
Vice Admiral
Joined: 15 Sep 2001
Posts: 5581
Location: Kokori Forest, Hyrule
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| Tue Oct 10, 2006 11:41 pm |
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| Republican_Man wrote: | | WeAz wrote: | | Everyone is. We've let them run rampant. |
And Clinton gave him the materials to let them do this and things to go this far. |
Please stop talking like Clinton's term ended last week. Bush has had 6 years to do something about it.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Tue Oct 10, 2006 11:44 pm |
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| Link, the Hero of Time wrote: | | Republican_Man wrote: | | WeAz wrote: | | Everyone is. We've let them run rampant. |
And Clinton gave him the materials to let them do this and things to go this far. |
Please stop talking like Clinton's term ended last week. Bush has had 6 years to do something about it. |
Would we be in this situation were Clinton to not have given them those materials? No. There is little that Bush could have done in this case without the help of the international community, seeing as, at the time after 9/11, Iraq appeared to be the gravest threat and most worth concentrating on.
I don't give Bush a pass--he's failed, definitely--but I give Clinton far more credit for the failure.
-------signature-------
"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Hitchhiker
Rear Admiral
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 3514
Location: Ontario, Canada
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| Tue Oct 10, 2006 11:50 pm |
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It's far more important to move forward and look toward solving the current situation rather than look backward and try to assign blame. It may be fun, it may make people feel better, but on the whole it doesn't do anything constructive.
This is posturing on North Korea's part. Much like the other aspiring nuclear junkie of the world, Iran, they are whining for attention from the rest of the world. It's really unbecoming, in a way, especially because unlike Iran, we haven't been ignoring North Korea. We could admittedly pay more attention to them than we have--and try to bludgeon it into their heads that talks are a good thing.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Tue Oct 10, 2006 11:54 pm |
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Tach, talks with North Korea have shown to have failed in the past, its government to be untrustworthy. What makes you think more talking will get anywhere? What we need is solid Chapter 7 Security Council action.
-------signature-------
"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant
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| Tue Oct 10, 2006 11:57 pm |
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This is funny. America is considered the country that "always" does things against world opinion, yet North Korea just gave the proverbial finger to the world and did what they wanted...
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Hitchhiker
Rear Admiral
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 3514
Location: Ontario, Canada
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| Wed Oct 11, 2006 12:32 am |
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| Republican_Man wrote: | | Tach, talks with North Korea have shown to have failed in the past, its government to be untrustworthy. What makes you think more talking will get anywhere? What we need is solid Chapter 7 Security Council action. |
Well, you could always go to North Korea's official website and follow the links to send them an email. 
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Link, the Hero of Time
Vice Admiral
Joined: 15 Sep 2001
Posts: 5581
Location: Kokori Forest, Hyrule
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| Wed Oct 11, 2006 10:51 am |
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| Republican_Man wrote: |
Would we be in this situation were Clinton to not have given them those materials? No. There is little that Bush could have done in this case without the help of the international community, seeing as, at the time after 9/11, Iraq appeared to be the gravest threat and most worth concentrating on.
I don't give Bush a pass--he's failed, definitely--but I give Clinton far more credit for the failure. |
You say it like Clinton gave them the bomb and said do what you will. Clinton had their Graphite moderated reactors removed and put in LWR's. LWR's are next to impossible to get weapons grade plutonium out of. And to top it all off, Graphite moderated reactors are exteremly unstable. IE; The Chernobyl reactor was graphite moderated.
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WeAz
Commodore
Joined: 03 Apr 2004
Posts: 1519
Location: Where you aren't
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| Wed Oct 11, 2006 7:12 pm |
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Bush could have done plenty to stop them.
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Lord Borg
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 27 May 2003
Posts: 11214
Location: Vulcan Capital City, Vulcan
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| Wed Oct 11, 2006 8:07 pm |
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| WeAz wrote: | | Bush could have done plenty to stop them. |
Care to back that up with facts? Or examples as to what you mean?
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Starbuck
faster...
Joined: 19 Feb 2003
Posts: 8715
Location: between chaos and melody
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| Wed Oct 11, 2006 8:31 pm |
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I honestly don't think that there's much Bush could have done to stop them, but ....... ugh I don't know. This is a really confusing situation. Link is right, all clinton did was give them a safer reactor that was less like to go big-boom, but if they didn't get it from him they would have gotten it from somewhere else, or they wouldn't have gotten one at all and they'd be playing with a graphite reactor.
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WeAz
Commodore
Joined: 03 Apr 2004
Posts: 1519
Location: Where you aren't
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| Wed Oct 11, 2006 9:04 pm |
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| Lord Borg wrote: | | WeAz wrote: | | Bush could have done plenty to stop them. |
Care to back that up with facts? Or examples as to what you mean? |
He had 3 years before Iraq. Then, 3 after.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Wed Oct 11, 2006 9:08 pm |
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| WeAz wrote: | | He had 3 years before Iraq. Then, 3 after. |
Actually, he had just over two years. He was inaugurated in January of 2001, after which he focussed on domestic issues until 8 months later, with 9/11, which changed the whole scope of what was the gravest threat.
The Iraq War began in March of 2003. Two months over two years.
But time isn't everything. Please give more suggestions.
-------signature-------
"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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WeAz
Commodore
Joined: 03 Apr 2004
Posts: 1519
Location: Where you aren't
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| Wed Oct 11, 2006 10:54 pm |
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Fine. How about this: Clinton didn't give them a bomb. He gave them reactors that are nearly impossible to get weapons grade plutonium out of. If not for that, they would have bought reactors from other nations, or components on the black market. Clinton delayed them getting the bomb. They had to modify our reactors.
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CJ Cregg
Commodore
Joined: 05 Oct 2002
Posts: 1254
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| Fri Oct 13, 2006 2:08 pm |
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| Quote: | Sources: NK sample shows no radiation
Two U.S. government officials with access to classified information tell CNN that the initial air sampling over North Korea shows no indication of radioactive debris from the event Monday that North Korea says was an underground nuclear test.
The U.S. Air Force flew a WC-135 Constant Phoenix on Tuesday to collect air samples from the region.
A third official reiterated that at this point "there isn't information to allow confirmation it was a nuclear test."
http://us.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/asiapcf/10/13/nkorea.test.sample/index.html |
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Arellia
The Quiet One
Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Posts: 4425
Location: Dallas, TX
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| Fri Oct 13, 2006 2:30 pm |
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If you ask me, I would ask the military.  Korea needs to be dealt with. That's why we have a military. Talking first may well enough be a preliminary, but I would be dismayed if there weren't some kind of plan for what to do when the talks fail. The biggest problem with North Korea is not just that they have nuclear weapons, it's that Kim JongMentally-Il is insane. I'm not knowledgeable enough about Korean politics, either, to know what would happen if suddenly Kimmy were to disappear.
And by the way.
| The Washington Times wrote: | Intelligence failure cited in Korean crisis
By Bill Gertz
October 12, 2006
Recent U.S. intelligence analyses of North Korea's nuclear and missile programs were flawed and the lack of clarity on the issue hampered U.S. diplomatic efforts to avert the underground blast detected Sunday, according to Bush administration officials. |
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Lord Borg
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 27 May 2003
Posts: 11214
Location: Vulcan Capital City, Vulcan
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| Fri Oct 13, 2006 7:17 pm |
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| Arellia wrote: | If you ask me, I would ask the military. Korea needs to be dealt with. That's why we have a military. Talking first may well enough be a preliminary, but I would be dismayed if there weren't some kind of plan for what to do when the talks fail. The biggest problem with North Korea is not just that they have nuclear weapons, it's that Kim JongMentally-Il is insane. I'm not knowledgeable enough about Korean politics, either, to know what would happen if suddenly Kimmy were to disappear.
And by the way.
| The Washington Times wrote: | Intelligence failure cited in Korean crisis
By Bill Gertz
October 12, 2006
Recent U.S. intelligence analyses of North Korea's nuclear and missile programs were flawed and the lack of clarity on the issue hampered U.S. diplomatic efforts to avert the underground blast detected Sunday, according to Bush administration officials. |
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Indeed.... Unfortinitly, due to sending the troops to Iraq, and Afganistan, there would be some sort of outcry (Interesting, protest. when the president tries to protect us...Talk dont work people). However, somethng does need to be done, before it will be to late.
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When you cried I'd wipe away all of your tears
When you'd scream I'd fight away all of your fears
And I held your hand through all of these years
But you still have
All of me
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Arellia
The Quiet One
Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Posts: 4425
Location: Dallas, TX
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| Fri Oct 13, 2006 7:40 pm |
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They wouldn't have to start occupying another country again. That's not how the military would have it done right now anyway. Iraq and Afghanistan are poorly planned and militarily inefficient. If we let the military handle this thing, the way the military would like to, we might actually succeed. We would be better off listening to the military right now in Iraq, too, but we're not. We certainly don't have to do another middle east freakshow.
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WeAz
Commodore
Joined: 03 Apr 2004
Posts: 1519
Location: Where you aren't
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| Fri Oct 13, 2006 8:58 pm |
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I say that if a war is started over this....then we should provide support only.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Sat Oct 14, 2006 1:49 am |
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Update:
| Quote: | Air Sampling Off Korea Finds Radioactive Gas
WASHINGTON � An air sampling taken after North Korea's claimed nuclear test detected gaseous radioactive debris consistent with an atomic explosion, Bush administration and congressional officials said Friday night. They said no final determination had been made about the nature of last weekend's mystery-shrouded blast.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,220737,00.html |
-------signature-------
"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Sat Oct 14, 2006 2:09 pm |
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Oooh. Surprise, surprise. Look what the UN Insecurity Council actually did today:
Security Council Unanimously Approves Sanctions on N. Korea
-------signature-------
"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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