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CJ Cregg
Commodore
Joined: 05 Oct 2002
Posts: 1254
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 Thu Oct 05, 2006 9:32 am Green Car Myth |
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| Quote: | Green Car Myth
They are popular with socially-conscious Hollywood stars, politicians on the campaign trail and eco-friendly motorists, but some of the 'greenest' cars cause more pollution than gas-guzzling off-roaders, a study has revealed.
The petrol-electric Toyota Prius, one of the most 'environmentally friendly' cars, favoured by Brad Pitt and Cameron Diaz, is on the list of worst polluters.
It was beaten by several off-roaders - dubbed Chelsea tractors - including the Toyota Land Cruiser and Land Rover Discovery.
The study, commissioned by What Car? magazine, suggests that if drivers really want to save the planet, they should ditch their 'green' vehicles.
Researchers accepted that many 'green' cars do push out less pollution when they are running, but they argue that the energy used to make the technically complex vehicles means they cause more pollution that conventional cars.
Read the rest here. |
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teya
Commander
Joined: 02 Feb 2005
Posts: 423
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| Thu Oct 05, 2006 11:58 am |
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It's really funny that no one on the left or the right touts the one way to really decrease air pollution: mass transit.
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TrekkieMage
Office Junkie
Joined: 17 Oct 2004
Posts: 5335
Location: Hiding
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| Thu Oct 05, 2006 1:01 pm |
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Interesting. But I agree with teya, there is so much more that can easily be done and just isn't. And just because the gas-guzzlers might produce less polution being produced doesn't negate how bad they are for the enviornment.
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CJ Cregg
Commodore
Joined: 05 Oct 2002
Posts: 1254
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| Thu Oct 05, 2006 2:00 pm |
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| teya wrote: | | It's really funny that no one on the left or the right touts the one way to really decrease air pollution: mass transit. |
Personally i am a big fan of mass transport. I i had my way we would have excellent bus services everywhere, fast and modern railways and an increase in light railways in cities.
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TrekkieMage
Office Junkie
Joined: 17 Oct 2004
Posts: 5335
Location: Hiding
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| Thu Oct 05, 2006 2:53 pm |
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It isn't that mass transit is bad, if done correctly it could probably help a lot. I see two problems with it as it stands now: 1. despite the fact that some cities are trying, most of the vehicles used aren't very clean or efficient. 2. What good is mass transit if few people use it? Many people do use public transit, but many more would rather drive themselves.
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CJ Cregg
Commodore
Joined: 05 Oct 2002
Posts: 1254
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| Thu Oct 05, 2006 2:55 pm |
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You could always add incentives to stop using cars in city's. Like London's Congestion charge, you have to pay to enter the city using a car.
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TrekkieMage
Office Junkie
Joined: 17 Oct 2004
Posts: 5335
Location: Hiding
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| Thu Oct 05, 2006 2:56 pm |
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There are ways to get people to start using public transit more often, I agree. However, I feel like it's just not being done, and not enough effort is being put into it.
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Starbuck
faster...
Joined: 19 Feb 2003
Posts: 8715
Location: between chaos and melody
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| Thu Oct 05, 2006 8:12 pm |
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I love the Toyota Prius. But yeah, mass transit is the way to go.
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teya
Commander
Joined: 02 Feb 2005
Posts: 423
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| Thu Oct 05, 2006 10:55 pm |
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| CJ Cregg wrote: | | You could always add incentives to stop using cars in city's. Like London's Congestion charge, you have to pay to enter the city using a car. |
That's excellent! In New York, it's simply too expensive to garage a car for most people, and few buildings have lots. It's a pain to circle a block for hours looking for a space. So most New Yorkers take mass transit. And the subway is the fastest way to get from Point A to Point B.
In LA, where I live now, well... It's a city that grew along with the auto industry. Gas was cheap. The city sprawls--it's geographically huge. It can take hours to get to some areas via mass transit.
So I don't go to those areas.  I've lived without a car here for 13 years. The university where I work subsidizes bus fare--for a quarter and a swipe of my ID, I can get anywhere on the west side of LA in a reasonable amount of time. And the Santa Monica bus system is one of the best in the country. The busses are clean, the drivers friendly, and the service as on-time as traffic allows. It's often faster than taking the freeway.
The beauty is--with a transportation budget of $2.50 a week, I can well afford to take a cab on those occasions I need to. 
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LightningBoy
Commodore
Joined: 09 Mar 2003
Posts: 1446
Location: Minnesota, U.S.A.
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| Fri Oct 06, 2006 12:11 am |
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| teya wrote: | | It's really funny that no one on the left or the right touts the one way to really decrease air pollution: mass transit. |
There are a lot of studies that dispute that.
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PrankishSmart
Rear Admiral
Joined: 29 Apr 2002
Posts: 4779
Location: Hobart, Australia.
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| Fri Oct 06, 2006 2:26 am |
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There is 3 main problems with mass transit. A is often you don't get taken to point of destination, only the broad area, B is it takes a lot longer and C is mass transit becomes very inefficient with fewer passengers.
I'll be good in a couple of weeks due to recieving a company car. No more fuel bill for me 
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teya
Commander
Joined: 02 Feb 2005
Posts: 423
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| Fri Oct 06, 2006 12:24 pm |
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| PrankishSmart wrote: | | There is 3 main problems with mass transit. A is often you don't get taken to point of destination, only the broad area, |
Because, like, it's just a PITA to walk a block or two?
Believe me, I know people who are *astonished* that I still wear the same size I wore in high school--and I'm turning 50 this month. Why might that be? Luck?
Um, no. Because I *walk* a good 3 miles a day.
As for time? Well, it doesn't hurt to slow down and read the newspaper, either. But, in LA, you're more likely to make good time on the bus than on some of our freeways.
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CJ Cregg
Commodore
Joined: 05 Oct 2002
Posts: 1254
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| Fri Oct 06, 2006 1:17 pm |
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People are just getting lazy that's all, why walk 10 minutes when you can go in the car?
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PrankishSmart
Rear Admiral
Joined: 29 Apr 2002
Posts: 4779
Location: Hobart, Australia.
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| Sat Oct 07, 2006 4:37 am |
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| teya wrote: | | PrankishSmart wrote: | | There is 3 main problems with mass transit. A is often you don't get taken to point of destination, only the broad area, |
Because, like, it's just a PITA to walk a block or two?
Believe me, I know people who are *astonished* that I still wear the same size I wore in high school--and I'm turning 50 this month. Why might that be? Luck?
Um, no. Because I *walk* a good 3 miles a day.
As for time? Well, it doesn't hurt to slow down and read the newspaper, either. But, in LA, you're more likely to make good time on the bus than on some of our freeways. |
Thats nice but what if the temperature is below freezing, showering with rain, or you have to carry something (ie large or heavy item) to you're destination?
Automobile will live for a very long time. Too many people either rely on them, and even not, many people love them and their joy for motorsport.
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Lord Borg
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 27 May 2003
Posts: 11214
Location: Vulcan Capital City, Vulcan
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| Sat Oct 07, 2006 4:42 am |
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Or there could simply be distance involved. With me, it's not laziness, but to walk to the store (Which is quiet a walk on these hilly roads, let alone the distance) for a bottle of soda, it's really not worth it.
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CJ Cregg
Commodore
Joined: 05 Oct 2002
Posts: 1254
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| Sat Oct 07, 2006 9:25 am |
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| Lord Borg wrote: | | Or there could simply be distance involved. With me, it's not laziness, but to walk to the store (Which is quiet a walk on these hilly roads, let alone the distance) for a bottle of soda, it's really not worth it. |
I know someone who takes their children to school in a 4x4 and the school is just round the corer from the, I would take them 5-10 mins walks. Now that's what i call lazy car use.
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Admiral Dani�l
Dutch Admiral
Joined: 06 Sep 2005
Posts: 2177
Location: Borg Cube 31572 - Join us now!
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| Sat Oct 07, 2006 10:22 am |
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I knew someone who drove his children to school while the school was litterally a 4-5 minutes walk! OMG
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Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant
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| Sat Oct 07, 2006 10:30 am |
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| CJ Cregg wrote: | | Lord Borg wrote: | | Or there could simply be distance involved. With me, it's not laziness, but to walk to the store (Which is quiet a walk on these hilly roads, let alone the distance) for a bottle of soda, it's really not worth it. |
I know someone who takes their children to school in a 4x4 and the school is just round the corer from the, I would take them 5-10 mins walks. Now that's what i call lazy car use. |
Maybe...maybe not.
I have several fast food restuarants about 15 min. walk away from my house. Guess what? I ain't walking to them. I'm driving. Why? Because with driving, I get their in 5 minutes and I don't have to walk in the hot sun and dress decently to go. With drive through, I'm back home, in my comfertable clothing, watching an episode of DS9 while enjoying lunch. With the 15 min. walk. It's 15 min there, and then 15 min. back. That's 30 min. altogether, wasted for something that could have been a 10 min. drive.
Call that laziness? Fine, go ahead. But technology is here for us to use and enjoy, not shun it. I agree we need to do more for the enviornment and all, but I don't blame people for using their cars for nearby drives.
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PrankishSmart
Rear Admiral
Joined: 29 Apr 2002
Posts: 4779
Location: Hobart, Australia.
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| Sat Oct 07, 2006 11:55 am |
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| Lord Borg wrote: | | Or there could simply be distance involved. With me, it's not laziness, but to walk to the store (Which is quiet a walk on these hilly roads, let alone the distance) for a bottle of soda, it's really not worth it. |
The nearest corner shop from here is like half hour walk at least (same with the hairdressers which I sometimes walk to get a haircut). The supermarket is probably about 45 min walk away which is fine, but it's not like you can carry a boot load of shopping back home under your arms and on top of your head or something..
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teya
Commander
Joined: 02 Feb 2005
Posts: 423
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| Sat Oct 07, 2006 12:28 pm |
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| PrankishSmart wrote: | | Thats nice but what if the temperature is below freezing, showering with rain, or you have to carry something (ie large or heavy item) to you're destination? |
When I was in college in Syracuse (and that is a snow-ridden city), it was a little over a mile from the art supply store to my apartment--and uphill. I walked that regularly, carting sheets of illustration board under both arms and a tackle box filled with supplies in one hand. Was it easy? No. At times the wind was so strong, it would pick me up and carry me a few yards, the illustration board acting as wings. But hey, if you don't have a choice, it's amazing what you can do.
New Yorkers take mass transit regularly, no matter what the season. And I'm sure London's climate isn't like it is here in LA either.
| Founder wrote: | | CJ Cregg wrote: | | Lord Borg wrote: | | Or there could simply be distance involved. With me, it's not laziness, but to walk to the store (Which is quiet a walk on these hilly roads, let alone the distance) for a bottle of soda, it's really not worth it. |
I know someone who takes their children to school in a 4x4 and the school is just round the corer from the, I would take them 5-10 mins walks. Now that's what i call lazy car use. |
Maybe...maybe not.
I have several fast food restuarants about 15 min. walk away from my house. Guess what? I ain't walking to them. I'm driving. Why? Because with driving, I get their in 5 minutes and I don't have to walk in the hot sun and dress decently to go. With drive through, I'm back home, in my comfertable clothing, watching an episode of DS9 while enjoying lunch. With the 15 min. walk. It's 15 min there, and then 15 min. back. That's 30 min. altogether, wasted for something that could have been a 10 min. drive. |
I suppose it depends on your priorities. Is a 30 minute walk a waste of time or is it simply following good health practices? Sure wouldn't hurt to walk off some of the 2000 calories in a fast food meal.
Doesn't hurt to actually *see* the world around you in a way you don't get from a car, either.
Although the funniest--and most aggravating--thing I've seen is the folks who drive a 10-minute walk to the gym, then hop on the treadmill to get their cardio workout in.
Me, I just got back from my Saturday morning workout. A 3-mile walk to the studio, a 90 minute yoga class, a 3-mile walk home. It's a beautiful fall day, fall flowers are in bloom in gardens, and I stopped and had a chat with an old man planting spring bulbs. Got some Southern California gardening tips in the process.
So, I breathed in fresh air, saw some lovely gardens, met a neighbor, and learned something new. Was that a waste of time?
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Puck
The Texan
Joined: 05 Jan 2004
Posts: 5596
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| Sat Oct 07, 2006 1:03 pm |
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I certainly would not have time, it would take me an hour at least to walk to highschool, so that means I would have to be ready by 7.30 in the morning. Then an hour to walk home at least. Then if I work, another hour there and back. A waste of time? In my case, most definately. Then you have the idea that I have to cross at least three major intersections, and the whole safety issue. Add to that the fact that there are probably 3 months out of the year where it would actually be a decent temperature to walk in, and its clear that this would not work for me.
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Lord Borg
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 27 May 2003
Posts: 11214
Location: Vulcan Capital City, Vulcan
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| Sun Oct 08, 2006 2:42 am |
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Yeah. If I lived in a place where things were closer? Sure, I'd walk. With me, it's not really laziness, it's the simple fact that by way of walking, it's to far.
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jonathan95
Delta Prime
Joined: 29 Oct 2002
Posts: 1544
Location: UK Newcastle
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| Sun Oct 08, 2006 4:20 am |
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| teya wrote: | | PrankishSmart wrote: | | Thats nice but what if the temperature is below freezing, showering with rain, or you have to carry something (ie large or heavy item) to you're destination? |
When I was in college in Syracuse (and that is a snow-ridden city), it was a little over a mile from the art supply store to my apartment--and uphill. I walked that regularly, carting sheets of illustration board under both arms and a tackle box filled with supplies in one hand. Was it easy? No. At times the wind was so strong, it would pick me up and carry me a few yards, the illustration board acting as wings. But hey, if you don't have a choice, it's amazing what you can do.
New Yorkers take mass transit regularly, no matter what the season. And I'm sure London's climate isn't like it is here in LA either.
| Founder wrote: | | CJ Cregg wrote: | | Lord Borg wrote: | | Or there could simply be distance involved. With me, it's not laziness, but to walk to the store (Which is quiet a walk on these hilly roads, let alone the distance) for a bottle of soda, it's really not worth it. |
I know someone who takes their children to school in a 4x4 and the school is just round the corer from the, I would take them 5-10 mins walks. Now that's what i call lazy car use. |
Maybe...maybe not.
I have several fast food restuarants about 15 min. walk away from my house. Guess what? I ain't walking to them. I'm driving. Why? Because with driving, I get their in 5 minutes and I don't have to walk in the hot sun and dress decently to go. With drive through, I'm back home, in my comfertable clothing, watching an episode of DS9 while enjoying lunch. With the 15 min. walk. It's 15 min there, and then 15 min. back. That's 30 min. altogether, wasted for something that could have been a 10 min. drive. |
I suppose it depends on your priorities. Is a 30 minute walk a waste of time or is it simply following good health practices? Sure wouldn't hurt to walk off some of the 2000 calories in a fast food meal.
Doesn't hurt to actually *see* the world around you in a way you don't get from a car, either.
Although the funniest--and most aggravating--thing I've seen is the folks who drive a 10-minute walk to the gym, then hop on the treadmill to get their cardio workout in.
Me, I just got back from my Saturday morning workout. A 3-mile walk to the studio, a 90 minute yoga class, a 3-mile walk home. It's a beautiful fall day, fall flowers are in bloom in gardens, and I stopped and had a chat with an old man planting spring bulbs. Got some Southern California gardening tips in the process.
So, I breathed in fresh air, saw some lovely gardens, met a neighbor, and learned something new. Was that a waste of time? |
wow arnt you a super fit person who has plenty of time.
yer its great you can pop out for a 3 mile work followed by work,
but most people think walking 3 miles is too far,
my village is only 1 and half miles across, and any where in my village I walk,
when I went to school bah so long ago, it takes 35 minutes by bus, 25 if my dad used to take me when I was running late,
but on some days when I didnt have to do school work mainly during my exam year I used to cycle it,
but at a 5 mile ride just to get there then you have all the lovely other children who love to let you get there and then have to call dad to come get you as your bike started in 1 bit and ends up missing wheels, and smashed up.
then we have when I went to college thats a hell of a trip from here to get there buy bus you have have to get two of them to get there at a guess I think its something like nearly 20 miles maybe more just to get there.
shopping well thats around 15 to a shop thats actualy decent food.
but yer I agree people who take the car to travel two minutes to the local shop for a bottle of what ever when they could easly have walked it or the people who travel to the gym which is under 3 miles just to do excercyse are lazy people.
sadly I dont own a car yet and every time I have to travel to do shopping I get my dad to take me, only since we buy fortnightly and spend a good �100 each time thats a lot of bags too many for public transport, the rest of my travel is done by bus's.
the bad thing about public transport expecialy around here is its very unreliable too expensive, morning bus's are always like sardene cans as they insist on not doubling bus's up.
I am trying to avoid using sam my daughter as an excuse in any of these things.
but for a lot of people walking to there nearest is eather too far for an average person who doesnt usualy exert them selfs in such ways or its just two dangerous.
and london people have much better tranport system than up here in newcastle and london expcialy are trying more ways to get people using more of the local transport than the cars.
but to the subject of car's what about the cars that run on vegtable oil, or the one that basicaly runs of left over food scraps I am sure I read one that did that then you've the cars that prity much run on hydrogon that the only emission is water
these duel cars I dowt when I first heard of them would be over all much differant the fact of the matter is Green isnt going to happen for a long time, due to the fat cats enjoying there big fat pockets.
I am sure if for example the oil ran out tomorrow totaly all gone not a drop in the world.
wounder how long it would take them to come up with a safe/non toxic/totaly green car?
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Seven of Nine
Sammie's Mammy
Joined: 16 Jun 2001
Posts: 7871
Location: North East England
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| Sun Oct 08, 2006 9:12 am |
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You must live somewhere different to me Johny- I don't live in Newcastle 
He was exaggerating quite a bit there- it's around 5-6 miles to Asda and the MetroCentre from High Spen, and around 10 to Gateshead and Newcastle. Public transport adds on quite a bit more to that, and walking it is even further as you can't use the A1 or the motorway.
Like Johny, I walk everywhere in the village, but walking elsewhere just isn't practical. It takes 1 1/2 hours to get to college from here by public transport (3 buses), imagine what it would be like if I tried to walk? Shopping without a car is really difficult or expensive (as you have to use a taxi when trying to carry all the nappies and stuff that Sammie needs) so as Johny said his dad takes us once a fortnight. I use public transport most of the time, but the buses are really unreliable, and they keep cutting the services to our area as it's just too far out.
Then of course there's the safety issue. I have no sense of direction, get lost extremely easily, and get dizzy too often to count. Add to that balance problems and suddenly walking far distances isn't very appealing. Sometimes a car is the only reliable and reasonably safe form of transport.
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madlilnerd
Duchess of Dancemat
Joined: 03 Aug 2004
Posts: 5885
Location: Slough, England
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| Sun Oct 08, 2006 9:44 am |
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I walk or take public transport everywhere. My town is a commuter town, an imigrant town, so lots of people use public transport.
I have to be out of the door at 7 to walk the 2km to the train station in the morning to catch my 7.20 train to Twyford. At Twyford I change for Henley on Thames. Then I walk a km to college (uphill), which takes me another 10minutes.
That's with a back pack on me, with about 10kilograms of stuff in it, if not more.
I love walking. If I walk somewhere to get food, I always feel better when I'm eating the food. Walking is, for me, a chance to just be with me and not anyone else.
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