| Did Jeri Ryan Ruin Voyager? |
| Yes |
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12% |
[ 8 ] |
| No |
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75% |
[ 48 ] |
| Kind of: but it wan't really her fault |
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12% |
[ 8 ] |
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| Total Votes : 64 |
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Message |
Lynx
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 277
Location: The Lynx Empire
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 Thu Sep 21, 2006 11:04 am |
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| sixofthree wrote: | Seven of nine was a pivotal character for STV, without her introduction the series would have seriously gone off the rails.
The arrival of 7 meant that the writers could explore new sides of the existing characters as well as open up a whole new aspect of looking at the human psyche, at least trying to see it from 7's point of view of re-humanising.
The amount of interest that character generated outside of the traditional trekkie watchers, helped the series revive.
Life without seven........................ |
They got that "interest" from "the outside" by marketing Seven as a sex symbol, "Sexy Seven" and such. That's how they created that interest, by playing the "sex card".
As I see it, Voyager was great as it was without Seven. It had the best characters and the best premise and would have survived and developed even without Seven.
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teya
Commander
Joined: 02 Feb 2005
Posts: 423
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| Thu Sep 21, 2006 11:34 am |
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| Lynx wrote: | | They got that "interest" from "the outside" by marketing Seven as a sex symbol, "Sexy Seven" and such. That's how they created that interest, by playing the "sex card". |
Once again, you assert that Seven was simply marketing, that Jeri's powerful performance had nothing to do with revived interest.
Of course not... 
The simple fact is, a sex symbol will only go so far--it's got to be backed up by something to keep viewers interested. Jeri had the chops to achieve that.
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Untitled
Commander
Joined: 02 Jul 2006
Posts: 396
Location: abandoned
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| Thu Sep 21, 2006 1:24 pm |
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| teya wrote: | | Lynx wrote: | | They got that "interest" from "the outside" by marketing Seven as a sex symbol, "Sexy Seven" and such. That's how they created that interest, by playing the "sex card". |
Once again, you assert that Seven was simply marketing, that Jeri's powerful performance had nothing to do with revived interest. |
-Her sex appeal is what got more viewers to come in...However her character was interesting and complex - and that's probably what allowed many to stay. Or some at least.
| teya wrote: |
The simple fact is, a sex symbol will only go so far--it's got to be backed up by something to keep viewers interested. |
Baywatch...
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teya
Commander
Joined: 02 Feb 2005
Posts: 423
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| Thu Sep 21, 2006 1:58 pm |
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| Untitled wrote: | | Her sex appeal is what got more viewers to come in... |
Were you one of them? Or are you just repeating the conventional wisdom?
See, because I was a viewer who returned to Voyager in Season 4. And Seven's sex appeal had nothing to do with it. The fact that she was an interesting character played by an outstanding actress did.
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Untitled
Commander
Joined: 02 Jul 2006
Posts: 396
Location: abandoned
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| Thu Sep 21, 2006 2:01 pm |
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| teya wrote: | | Untitled wrote: | | Her sex appeal is what got more viewers to come in... |
Were you one of them?
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- No.
| teya wrote: |
See, because I was a viewer who returned to Voyager in Season 4. And Seven's sex appeal had nothing to do with it. The fact that she was an interesting character played by an outstanding actress did. |
- I wasn't suggesting that everyone who started watching Voyager during the fourth season was because of Seven's sex appeal. I was suggesting that alot of new fans watched because of Seven's sex appeal.
I started watching Voyager - it had nothing to do with any of the characters. I intinally watched it because I wanted to know what these two boys in one of my classes where talking about. And Seven's character wasn't the reason I stayed.
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teya
Commander
Joined: 02 Feb 2005
Posts: 423
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| Thu Sep 21, 2006 2:15 pm |
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I started watching Voyager in the first season. And gave up in boredom.
I watched the 4th season premiere out of curiosity--hoping to see the young blonde babe crash and burn. Instead, she won me over. Go figure.
So Seven's character *was* the reason I stayed.
Which, BTW, is just as valid a reason as yours or Lynx's or anyone else's--even if it doesn't fit the conventional wisdom that Seven was only a sex object and Jeri an untalented bimbo.
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Untitled
Commander
Joined: 02 Jul 2006
Posts: 396
Location: abandoned
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| Fri Sep 22, 2006 10:00 pm |
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| teya wrote: | | Which, BTW, is just as valid a reason as yours or Lynx's or anyone else's |
- I never said it wasn't.
| teya wrote: |
--even if it doesn't fit the conventional wisdom that Seven was only a sex object and Jeri an untalented bimbo. |
- I was only pointing out that their are some people out their that will watch a show just to see a sexy woman. I never implied that Jeri was untalented.
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Za Za Zoom
Ensign
Joined: 25 Jun 2006
Posts: 57
Location: Britain, Britain
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| Sat Sep 23, 2006 6:45 pm |
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Here is my opinion on people who slam Jeri Ryan, teya and Untitled: it is their loss if they say that Jeri Ryan is an untalented bimbo who cannot act. And more often than not they are not really worth the time or effort to convince otherwise (although I am not directing this at Lynx).
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Lynx
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 277
Location: The Lynx Empire
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| Sun Sep 24, 2006 1:47 am |
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Don't worry. I'm not offended because I don't see it as directed at me.
I would also like to point out that I do find Jeri Ryan a talented actress who really can act. But I must also point out that when it comes to her role as Seven Of Nine, the "sex factor" was something the producers did use in their marketing of the new character. Why the catsuit?
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Sun Sep 24, 2006 1:51 am |
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Nope; she enhanced it, in so many ways  
-------signature-------
"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Valathous
The Canadian, eh
Joined: 31 Aug 2002
Posts: 19074
Location: Centre Bell
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| Sun Sep 24, 2006 2:11 am |
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| Lynx wrote: | Don't worry. I'm not offended because I don't see it as directed at me.
I would also like to point out that I do find Jeri Ryan a talented actress who really can act. But I must also point out that when it comes to her role as Seven Of Nine, the "sex factor" was something the producers did use in their marketing of the new character. Why the catsuit? |
Sex sells. Always has, always will. That's why the catsuit. It worked, too.
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Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant
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| Sun Sep 24, 2006 2:21 am |
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Why not the catsuit?
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Ziona
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 22 Aug 2001
Posts: 12821
Location: Michigan... for now
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| Mon Sep 25, 2006 12:33 am |
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I don't think she ruined the series, per se. I think she vamped up the series a bit and made it a bit more interesting for the, ahem, gentlemen. But Jeri Ryan is a good actress on her own and I think the point of her being there was made and strong. Even if her costuming wasn't completely explained, she still had a purpose.
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John Luck Pickard
Lieutenant
Joined: 18 Sep 2006
Posts: 150
Location: Orange Co., NY
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| Mon Sep 25, 2006 12:39 am |
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Beginning in the 4th season, everyone who watched Voyager fell into one of the 3 groups I will list. There is no doubt there there are many people that fill all of the billets, as that is just the way people are.
1)They watched the show b/c they were/are Star Trek (in general) or Voyager fans
2)They watched the show b/c they saw Jeri Ryan as something new to the show
or 3)They watched the show b/c they saw Jeri Ryan as a sex symbol.
personally, I fall into #1, but I'm sure there's people in the other 2 as well
-------signature-------
"Is there a John Luck Pickard here"?, -Q, Tapestry
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JupiterPrime
Lieutenant
Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 208
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| Mon Sep 25, 2006 12:27 pm |
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aside from the fact that that wonderful and amply proportioned body with all its assets were hardly ever dressed in a fashion as to hide them. it was rare that I ever examined 7/9 as a sex object, because she was very rarely ever cast as such, except during the odd moments in various episodes when that aspect was being generally explored and not necessarily indigenous to just her.
Dont take it the wrong way - but they could have put her in a "standard non-commisioned officer" SF uniform insteadof torturing her in the rib-crushing cat-suit at some throughout her career on the series - not that I minded the cast-suit one bit.......but Im sure she must have after a time.
She may have been brought in under the premise of "sex-symbol savior", but at least she wasnt overtly cast as such...
Could you imagine? "I've beena borg for my entire life and I missed out on all my sexually-active adolescent years, so take a number, move to the end of the line and dont worry - Im DEFINITELY getting to everyone"
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sixofthree
Sophomore Cadet
Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 10
Location: North west europe
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| Mon Sep 25, 2006 6:00 pm |
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| Lynx wrote: | | sixofthree wrote: | Seven of nine was a pivotal character for STV, without her introduction the series would have seriously gone off the rails.
The arrival of 7 meant that the writers could explore new sides of the existing characters as well as open up a whole new aspect of looking at the human psyche, at least trying to see it from 7's point of view of re-humanising.
The amount of interest that character generated outside of the traditional trekkie watchers, helped the series revive.
Life without seven........................ |
They got that "interest" from "the outside" by marketing Seven as a sex symbol, "Sexy Seven" and such. That's how they created that interest, by playing the "sex card".
As I see it, Voyager was great as it was without Seven. It had the best characters and the best premise and would have survived and developed even without Seven. |
You wouldn't be a Kes fan by any chance.
I appreciate your point of view about the series as a whole, however I should tell you that I based my opinion purely on the first three series, which for me really got turgid by the end of series three. My weakness is a liking for species such as the borg.
I also completely agree about the "sexy" play by the studio.
Another point is that I wondered why they dropped Kes anyway, plenty of space in the programme for both characters.
Lastly the move was excellent as I would have ignored STV had they not "spiced" it with something dramatic. (IMO).
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JupiterPrime
Lieutenant
Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 208
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| Mon Sep 25, 2006 10:26 pm |
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| sixofthree wrote: | | Lynx wrote: | | sixofthree wrote: | | Seven of nine...The amount of interest that character generated outside of the traditional trekkie watchers, helped the series revive..... |
...As I see it, Voyager was great as it was without Seven. It had the best characters and the best premise and would have survived and developed even without Seven. |
You wouldn't be a Kes fan by any chance?.... |
Well, that just queued up another long and boring and fanboy tirade into the "wonders" and "lovely exquisiteness" that is Kes, and how she should never have been removed form the show.
You just had to bring her up didnt you? There'll be no stopping him now.
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Lord Borg
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 27 May 2003
Posts: 11214
Location: Vulcan Capital City, Vulcan
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| Tue Sep 26, 2006 2:54 am |
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Yeah, well, I'll be stoping the topic turning into kes, because it's about seven, so talk about HER
Thanks
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Lynx
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 277
Location: The Lynx Empire
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| Mon Oct 02, 2006 11:45 am |
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| Founder wrote: | | Why not the catsuit? |
Because it was too much of using sex to sell the series. Catsuit and high heels is not the dress most appropriate on a starship.
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teya
Commander
Joined: 02 Feb 2005
Posts: 423
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| Mon Oct 02, 2006 12:50 pm |
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So the heels worn by the rest of the women were appropriate? So the catsuits they put Kes in during season 3 were appropriate?
If not, then why gripe just about Seven's?
Oh, yeah, because Jeri Ryan Ruined Voyager!
Silly me for forgetting. 
It's just really irritating for Jeri to get the blame for costumes (she isn't a designer, she an actress), and for wearing the same things that other cast members did. All the women wore heels--you just couldn't see Kate and Roxann's because their slacks were cut long to cover them. And Jennifer wore catsuits.
So it still confuses me as to why Jeri "ruined" Voyager by wearing heels and a catsuit, when heels and catsuits were already part of the costuming on the show...
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Lynx
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 277
Location: The Lynx Empire
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| Mon Oct 02, 2006 5:53 pm |
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^^
Now you're putting words in my mouth again and twisting the meanings in what I've written. Please stop doing that.
The catsuit they put Kes into in season 3 just confirms my opinion about The Idiots In Charge as a bunch of sex-obsessed fools. Instead of coming up with good stories, they tried to play the sex card. It was silly and ridiculous and totally out of character for Kes. But what can you expect of the people who later came up with "Fury"?
As for possible "high heels" on Janeway and Torres, they weren't as remarcable as Seven's and probably a part of the Starfleet uniform.
But I can understand that the catsuit is a touchy thing. Too obvious just to ignore or explain.
As for "Jeri Ryan Ruined Voyager", I haven't written that. I haven't accused her for designing the costumes either, I give that credit to the sex-obsessed fools in charge of the show, the same people who claimed that they were not capable to write stories about their own creations. But I do find the introduction of her character into a very good series a bit questionable. However, I might have forgiven that if they hadn't removed my favorite character to make room for Ryan's character. Now, my irritation have made me focus on the obvious things. Sad but true. 
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teya
Commander
Joined: 02 Feb 2005
Posts: 423
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| Mon Oct 02, 2006 6:35 pm |
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| Lynx wrote: | | As for possible "high heels" on Janeway and Torres, they weren't as remarcable as Seven's and probably a part of the Starfleet uniform. |
They were black. And hidden by the pants. But at 3-1/2 inches, they were no more practical as part of a uniform than Seven's 4-inch heels were.
As a matter of fact, the only actress on Star Trek who *didn't* wear heels of any sort was Terry Farrell, because she's 6 foot in her stocking feet.
Even Kes was in 2 inch heels.
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Arellia
The Quiet One
Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Posts: 4425
Location: Dallas, TX
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| Mon Oct 02, 2006 6:42 pm |
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Considering there was very little else feminine about the uniforms, I see no problem with conservatively viewed heels. However, Seven's were pretty prominent and as a whole she was most certainly sexualized by the people designing her apparel. A cheap shot. I liked her character well enough anyway, and I by no means think she ruined the series.
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Voyager2004
Commodore
Joined: 13 Apr 2004
Posts: 2070
Location: Silverdale, WA
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| Mon Oct 02, 2006 6:55 pm |
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The heels make the women taller...that's why. Kate Mulgrew, Roxann Dawson, Jennifer Lien, and Jery Ryan are fairly short women. Not WAY short, don't get me wrong...but they all wore heels to increase their height for the camera's sake. Because you don't want the camera on this tall man and short woman at the same time. You'll then have a gap on one side of the screen, and that's a big no-no.
And just because they were in catsuits doesn't mean it was a "sex" thing in that time frame...as put by Dr. Crusher in "Star Trek: Insurrection."
Troi: And have you noticed how your boobs have firmed up.
Crusher: Not that we care about such thing this day in age.
Granted, the suits are obviously for today's appeal...but whatever.
-------signature-------
"We all make our own Hell, Mr. Lessing. I hope you enjoy yours."
Kathryn Janeway - Equinox Pt 2
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teya
Commander
Joined: 02 Feb 2005
Posts: 423
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| Mon Oct 02, 2006 7:21 pm |
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| Voyager2004 wrote: | | The heels make the women taller...that's why. Kate Mulgrew, Roxann Dawson, Jennifer Lien, and Jery Ryan are fairly short women. Not WAY short, don't get me wrong...but they all wore heels to increase their height for the camera's sake. Because you don't want the camera on this tall man and short woman at the same time. You'll then have a gap on one side of the screen, and that's a big no-no. |
Exactly! You can also get some really oddly angled shots--like they get on "Vanished" with the 6'3" Gale Harold and the 5'4" Ming Na. It's a lot harder to set up shots when there's such a discrepancy in height.
Plus, Seven was supposed to be a tall, commanding figure. Jeri's reasonably tall at 5'8", but that's still a good deal shorter than most of the guys. So her heels made her a 6-footer, and put her at eye level with with the guys.
| Quote: | | And just because they were in catsuits doesn't mean it was a "sex" thing in that time frame... |
Also true.
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