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CJ Cregg
Commodore
Joined: 05 Oct 2002
Posts: 1254
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 Mon Sep 18, 2006 8:56 am German neo-Nazis gain seats |
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| Quote: | Germany's neo-Nazis swept into a regional parliament in the north-east state of Mecklenburg-Vorpommern last night, comfortably winning seats in the state's assembly for the first time.
An exit poll for ZDF television showed that the far-right National Democratic Party (NPD) had won 7.1% of the vote. This is more than the 5% threshold needed for them to win seats. A poll for ARD television gave the NPD 6.7%.
The result appears to confirm fears that the NPD is now an insidious and established part of Germany's political landscape, especially in the country's depressed former communist east. It is the second time the neo-Nazis have entered a regional parliament in three years.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/germany/article/0,,1874874,00.html |
Shocking! 
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Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant
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| Mon Sep 18, 2006 1:33 pm |
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Uh oh. Deja vu...
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TrekkieMage
Office Junkie
Joined: 17 Oct 2004
Posts: 5335
Location: Hiding
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| Mon Sep 18, 2006 5:19 pm |
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Oh dear...I don't think I can really say more than that...
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Mon Sep 18, 2006 5:26 pm |
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The tragedy of a Proportional Representation style of government--even Nazis can be elected. We just studied this in AP Gov.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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webtaz99
Commodore
Joined: 13 Nov 2003
Posts: 1229
Location: The Other Side
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| Tue Sep 19, 2006 8:36 am |
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I don't see a problem with just a few in the government. They provide comic relief.
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"History is made at night! Character is who you are in the dark." (Lord John Whorfin)
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Pan13
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 22 Apr 2004
Posts: 338
Location: Belgium
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| Thu Sep 21, 2006 3:25 pm |
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well, it's not so good that they are now in the regional parliament...but i think that this could have been predicted....they were especially voted by the younger people, i think they got most of their votes from the ones aged younger than 21....most young people (me too btw) aren't really satisfied with the german politicy atm, especially since the coalition (right word?) between SPD and CDU...plus, a lot of them don't have work, unemployment is a big problem here...and we have 3 different types of schools here, and especially from Realschule and Hauptschule people don't find anything to work....and it's not getting better, rather worse
that's why a lot of young people tend to not vote at all or vote for those parties like NPD...and the "Wahlbeteiligung" (that's how many people vote) was as low as it never was before....
also, i don't know if u already knew this, but in Sachsen, another part of germany, the NPD were already in the regional parliament
oh, and i think in 1 constituency they even got the most votes of all...it's not good, but maybe now the other parties can finally work out some changes so they get more votes again
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Captain Patrick
Commodore
Joined: 06 Mar 2005
Posts: 2421
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| Fri Sep 22, 2006 8:40 pm |
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| Pan13 wrote: | well, it's not so good that they are now in the regional parliament...but i think that this could have been predicted....they were especially voted by the younger people, i think they got most of their votes from the ones aged younger than 21....most young people (me too btw) aren't really satisfied with the german politicy atm, especially since the coalition (right word?) between SPD and CDU...plus, a lot of them don't have work, unemployment is a big problem here...and we have 3 different types of schools here, and especially from Realschule and Hauptschule people don't find anything to work....and it's not getting better, rather worse
that's why a lot of young people tend to not vote at all or vote for those parties like NPD...and the "Wahlbeteiligung" (that's how many people vote) was as low as it never was before....
also, i don't know if u already knew this, but in Sachsen, another part of germany, the NPD were already in the regional parliament
oh, and i think in 1 constituency they even got the most votes of all...it's not good, but maybe now the other parties can finally work out some changes so they get more votes again |
@Pan13: Guten Tag, I have to argee with you, i am from German and yeah i am not fully happy with german policy myself, but i don't live in germany anymore...  but anyways this really doesn't suprise me, i personal don't have a problem with them, at the moment i just don't see this as a problem or anything like that.
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Theresa
Lux Mihi Deus
Joined: 17 Jun 2001
Posts: 27256
Location: United States of America
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| Fri Sep 22, 2006 10:11 pm |
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Can you tell me what part of neo-nazism you don't have a problem with?
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Some of us fall by the wayside
And some of us soar to the stars
And some of us sail through our troubles
And some have to live with our scars
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Captain Patrick
Commodore
Joined: 06 Mar 2005
Posts: 2421
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| Fri Sep 22, 2006 10:19 pm |
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| Theresa wrote: | | Can you tell me what part of neo-nazism you don't have a problem with? |
well i don't see nothing wrong with them at the moment, i mean they haven't done anything bad to me or to you so whats the problem?
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Theresa
Lux Mihi Deus
Joined: 17 Jun 2001
Posts: 27256
Location: United States of America
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| Fri Sep 22, 2006 10:22 pm |
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Their ideals and what they stand for? It's like having senate members walk around in white sheets and hoods. They may not do anything then, but we know what it means.
Should we wait until someone is hurt? Isn't that what happened back in the 1940's?
-------signature-------
Some of us fall by the wayside
And some of us soar to the stars
And some of us sail through our troubles
And some have to live with our scars
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Puck
The Texan
Joined: 05 Jan 2004
Posts: 5596
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| Fri Sep 22, 2006 10:24 pm |
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| Captain Patrick wrote: | | Theresa wrote: | | Can you tell me what part of neo-nazism you don't have a problem with? |
well i don't see nothing wrong with them at the moment, i mean they haven't done anything bad to me or to you so whats the problem? |
Well Hitler didn't do anything to me actually, so I guess I shouldn't have a problem with him. As long as he just picks on Jews that's fine? According to your logic it would seem at least.
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Captain Patrick
Commodore
Joined: 06 Mar 2005
Posts: 2421
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| Fri Sep 22, 2006 10:27 pm |
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| Puck wrote: | | Captain Patrick wrote: | | Theresa wrote: | | Can you tell me what part of neo-nazism you don't have a problem with? |
well i don't see nothing wrong with them at the moment, i mean they haven't done anything bad to me or to you so whats the problem? |
Well Hitler didn't do anything to me actually, so I guess I shouldn't have a problem with him. As long as he just picks on Jews that's fine? According to your logic it would seem at least. |
uh i'm a german jew, and my great grandparents where in it, and what Hilter did was wrong. but these people having a little power isn't the end of the world. aslo as they don't start another holocaust i really fail to see the problem.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Fri Sep 22, 2006 10:31 pm |
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Okay, so tell me. Just how little power did Hitler and the Nazi party have initially? Very little. 12%, I believe it was. So this is 5% or so. What if it gets bigger?
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Captain Patrick
Commodore
Joined: 06 Mar 2005
Posts: 2421
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| Fri Sep 22, 2006 10:36 pm |
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| Republican_Man wrote: | | Okay, so tell me. Just how little power did Hitler and the Nazi party have initially? Very little. 12%, I believe it was. So this is 5% or so. What if it gets bigger? |
yeah but the world has changeds since hilter, and i don't really think a single nation could start another holocaust so yeah.
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Puck
The Texan
Joined: 05 Jan 2004
Posts: 5596
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| Fri Sep 22, 2006 10:38 pm |
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That is exactly the attitude that allowed and allows stuff like the holocaust to happen.
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Captain Patrick
Commodore
Joined: 06 Mar 2005
Posts: 2421
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| Fri Sep 22, 2006 10:42 pm |
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| Puck wrote: | | That is exactly the attitude that allowed and allows stuff like the holocaust to happen. |
Ok not going to argue with you, i am just going to back out of this now, cause i know i might end up saying the wrong thing and get banned, and i don't want that so i conceed ok, i'm just going to drop this.
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Theresa
Lux Mihi Deus
Joined: 17 Jun 2001
Posts: 27256
Location: United States of America
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| Fri Sep 22, 2006 11:29 pm |
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Ha, the only thing that'd get you banned is doing something stupid like spamming "Nazi's rule!". People are interested in what you think, and how you come to that conclusion. No reason to not reply.
-------signature-------
Some of us fall by the wayside
And some of us soar to the stars
And some of us sail through our troubles
And some have to live with our scars
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Pan13
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 22 Apr 2004
Posts: 338
Location: Belgium
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| Sat Sep 23, 2006 5:10 am |
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| Republican_Man wrote: | | Okay, so tell me. Just how little power did Hitler and the Nazi party have initially? Very little. 12%, I believe it was. So this is 5% or so. What if it gets bigger? |
i know it started like this, but actually, i don't that history will repeat itself....if they gain more power again, and if it would get more dangerous, they would be banned....NPD is only on the verge of being a legal party, and as long they aren't in the national parliament (which they are not) they aren't that much of a problem....they are only in the regional parliament of 2 "Bundesl�nder", and in total we got 16...
and if they should get into the nation parliament again the others would find a reason for them to get banned....and it's not like Germany is still like it was in the thirties...like i wrote, the youth tends to vote for them, but the rest doesn't....
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Captain Patrick
Commodore
Joined: 06 Mar 2005
Posts: 2421
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| Sat Sep 23, 2006 11:22 am |
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| Pan13 wrote: | | Republican_Man wrote: | | Okay, so tell me. Just how little power did Hitler and the Nazi party have initially? Very little. 12%, I believe it was. So this is 5% or so. What if it gets bigger? |
i know it started like this, but actually, i don't that history will repeat itself....if they gain more power again, and if it would get more dangerous, they would be banned....NPD is only on the verge of being a legal party, and as long they aren't in the national parliament (which they are not) they aren't that much of a problem....they are only in the regional parliament of 2 "Bundesl�nder", and in total we got 16...
and if they should get into the nation parliament again the others would find a reason for them to get banned....and it's not like Germany is still like it was in the thirties...like i wrote, the youth tends to vote for them, but the rest doesn't.... |
Thank you Pan13 you basicly put down what i was trying to say but couldnt get out. lol but yeah the way i see it is histroy is not going to repeat it self, and if they did try to repeat it, it probaly wouldn't get to far before germany or another nation put a stop to it.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Sat Sep 23, 2006 12:48 pm |
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| Quote: | | like i wrote, the youth tends to vote for them, but the rest doesn't.... |
Doesn't that concern you? I mean, seriously, what if, in the next 20 years, the Nazis do gain more power because of the youth? They still pose a danger, no matter how hard it's going to be for them to gain real power.
Besides, even if they don't gain real power for a while, or at all, this is still bad news.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Captain Patrick
Commodore
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Posts: 2421
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| Sat Sep 23, 2006 1:43 pm |
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Not really, cause really i just can't see it happening again, yes they pose a danger but in my opinion not a very big one.
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Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant
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| Sat Sep 23, 2006 2:55 pm |
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I can the points of both sides. Personally, I don't really care if they have those small, unimportant seats. Hitler and the Nazis will not rise again. You might say "They did in these same conditions!!!". Uh...yeah, but the world has become much more unified since then. We keep careful watch of each other, especially the European nations. We don't live in a time when a European nation will try and conquer the others. Why? Because today there is no point and too many people have allies. So calm down. They are not going to rise in power. Israel of all nations wouldn't allow that. Nor would the US, England, Russia, or France. Would anyone really wanna go up against all those people in this day and age? No. Not to mention, there are scores of Germans who would oppose it. So again, calm down.
I will say on a personal note that I'm disgusted they have even a shred of power in the government and as RM said, I can't believe Germans are not upset with their Nazi supporting youth.
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Pan13
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 22 Apr 2004
Posts: 338
Location: Belgium
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| Sat Sep 23, 2006 3:05 pm |
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| Republican_Man wrote: | | Quote: | | like i wrote, the youth tends to vote for them, but the rest doesn't.... |
Doesn't that concern you? I mean, seriously, what if, in the next 20 years, the Nazis do gain more power because of the youth? They still pose a danger, no matter how hard it's going to be for them to gain real power.
Besides, even if they don't gain real power for a while, or at all, this is still bad news. |
first, no, not me, coz i could never actually vote...for regional vote you have to be 16 and last time there was one in Nordrhein-Westfalen I was only 15, and for the national one you have to be 18 and last year where Angela Merkel got Bundeskanzlerin I was only 16.
and then, not EVERYONE...in the part of germany where i live we have a lot of people who have an outlandish background (me for example, i'm halfrussian), I think like 20% of all people...and i'm sure that non of them (me included) would vote for a party like that...then, and i don't wanna say something against the german schoolsystem (although it actually really sucks), but most of them who would vote for them are from Hauptschule, the one where like 80% can't find a job or something else to do right after school (then they mostly go to Berufsschule for a few years) and only one third of all students go to Hauptschule and a lot of those who are on Hauptschule are the ones with the outlandish background (here where i live, where the neo-nazis got voted is another case, coz that's east germany, and they don't have that much outlandish people because until 16 years ago you couldn't get in)....part of what i wrote may just be prejudice, but the problem there is that on Hauptschule people don't know that much about history...our historyteacher told us once that there was this test or something where they asked things about the nazitime in germany, and one 2 out of 10 knew what a KZ(Konzentrationslager) was...i'm pretty sure everyone at my school knows...
so what i tried to say was that not everyone of us is voting for them, most who do have problems like unemployment, not the best education, things like that....and i think that's something the government can and will change
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Sat Sep 23, 2006 3:19 pm |
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Forget what I put here. I got your basic point in the end. Okay, there'll be less of a chance, I gotcha, and I agree that it's not a huge threat or anything. I just think that there's definitely room for mild concern. I don't want to overstate my argument, as I apparently have.
What I'm trying to say is that it's not good news when neo-Nazis get put into power, especially when their main support base is youth, aka the future of Germany. There is definitely room for concern, though not extreme concern by any stretch.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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