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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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 Mon Sep 18, 2006 5:23 pm |
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That was centuries ago, though, not that it excuses what the Catholics of old did.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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teya
Commander
Joined: 02 Feb 2005
Posts: 423
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| Mon Sep 18, 2006 5:41 pm |
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^ But, in the Pope's comments, he appeared to be saying that the Church had *never* spread the faith through forced conversions and violence.
And that is patently false. The Crusades, the Inquisition, and the history of the Church with Native American populations prove him wrong...
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Mon Sep 18, 2006 5:46 pm |
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No, it didn't appear that way. He just didn't acknowledge it is all.
Anyways, apparently our buddies over at al-Qaeda in Iraq have threatened the Holy Father...
| Quote: | Al Qaeda in Iraq to Pope Benedict XVI: 'You and the West Are Doomed'
CAIRO, Egypt � Al Qaeda in Iraq warned Pope Benedict XVI on Monday that its war against Christianity and the West will go on until Islam takes over the world, and Iran's supreme leader called for more protests over the pontiff's remarks on Islam.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,214318,00.html |
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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teya
Commander
Joined: 02 Feb 2005
Posts: 423
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| Mon Sep 18, 2006 5:53 pm |
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| Republican_Man wrote: | No, it didn't appear that way. He just didn't acknowledge it is all.
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RM, it APPEARED THAT WAY TO ME! The Pope claimed that Christianity is a religion of peace compared to Islam, and he was speaking historically.
That to me says he refused to acknowledge the Church's history. If you're going to make a categorical claim, it's usually a good idea that there not be ample evidence to contradict it.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Mon Sep 18, 2006 5:55 pm |
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I don't get any of the impressions your getting from the speech, and don't agree with your contextualization of the speech in that regard, but okay. If you feel that he intentionally omits the facts of the Church's history, so be it 
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Puck
The Texan
Joined: 05 Jan 2004
Posts: 5596
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| Mon Sep 18, 2006 6:00 pm |
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| teya wrote: | | Republican_Man wrote: | No, it didn't appear that way. He just didn't acknowledge it is all.
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RM, it APPEARED THAT WAY TO ME! The Pope claimed that Christianity is a religion of peace compared to Islam, and he was speaking historically.
That to me says he refused to acknowledge the Church's history. If you're going to make a categorical claim, it's usually a good idea that there not be ample evidence to contradict it. |
| teya wrote: | | Republican_Man wrote: | No, it didn't appear that way. He just didn't acknowledge it is all.
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RM, it APPEARED THAT WAY TO ME! The Pope claimed that Christianity is a religion of peace compared to Islam, and he was speaking historically.
That to me says he refused to acknowledge the Church's history. If you're going to make a categorical claim, it's usually a good idea that there not be ample evidence to contradict it. |
Historically it is a peaceful religion that grew up under persecution and continues to be persecuted. There have been periods that have not been so, but that is true for nearly any institution, state, or religion. That is when people must use rational judgement and knowledge to decide what is true. Plus I'm not quite sure what the Church did to Native Americans. I know a few Popes made statements to rulers, Spanish armies, and missionaries to respect the dignity of Native Americans and treat them as people.
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teya
Commander
Joined: 02 Feb 2005
Posts: 423
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| Mon Sep 18, 2006 6:15 pm |
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^ Forced conversions: first they took the land, then they set up the missions, then--since the hunting & farming grounds were no longer open to them--the Indians had to come to the missions, then they would be fed if they converted. If they didn't, they were sent on their way to starve--or their villages were torched, depending on the whim of the day.
And I'd suggest you do a little research on the Inquisition, and the Church's treatment of "heathens." Those "heathens" include Jews. But then, until Vatican Two, the Church taught that all Jews throughout history were responsible for the death of Christ--a teaching that inspired many a pogram.
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Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant
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| Fri Sep 22, 2006 5:21 pm |
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| Quote: | Pope Benedict XVI has invited Muslim envoys to meet with him at his summer residence Monday for what the Holy See says is urgently needed dialogue following the crisis ignited by his remarks on Islam and violence.
Turkey and Iran immediately said their representatives would attend.
Benedict's attempt to talk through the controversy comes as Christian-Muslim tensions rose in Indonesia over the executions of three Roman Catholic militants. Benedict had appealed to the mostly Muslim nation to spare the men.
Thousands of Muslim worshippers staged marches against Benedict in Jerusalem, the West Bank, Gaza and the Sudanese capital on Friday. The Palestinian protesters waved green Hamas banners and denounced the pontiff as a "coward" and an "agent of the Americans." But much of the Middle East was quiet. |
Pope invites Muslim envoys for meeting
I don't agree with the pope saying things in the first place, but I think that since then, he's handled it well.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Fri Sep 22, 2006 5:23 pm |
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I do agree that he's handled it well, though I disagree that what he said was at all wrong. I am also glad that he is not only going to still visit Turkey, but that he is really opening up a dialogue with the Muslims. That shows his sincerity, does it not? (Oh, and this dialogue was the point of the Holy Father's speech.)
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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TrekkieMage
Office Junkie
Joined: 17 Oct 2004
Posts: 5335
Location: Hiding
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| Fri Sep 22, 2006 5:24 pm |
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I agree that he's handling the result of his words well. I hope that the discussion turns out well.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Fri Sep 22, 2006 5:28 pm |
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So do I. This dialogue is critical, and if successful could help in the overall War on Terror in terms of the political war.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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