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StarfleetCommand74656
Captain
Joined: 22 May 2006
Posts: 653
Location: On STV
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 Mon Sep 04, 2006 11:33 am Course: Oblivion: Janeway's Principles |
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My other post picked holes in this, but anyway, I'm doing so again. Would Janeway really let herself and VGR be duplicated by beings she'd only just met. The Prime Directive???
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Leo Wyatt
Sweetest Angel
Joined: 25 Feb 2004
Posts: 19045
Location: Investigating A Crime Scene. What did Quark do this time?
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| Tue Sep 05, 2006 3:56 am |
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I doubt it. She is not that crazy.   
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Meverix
Sophomore Cadet
Joined: 07 Oct 2005
Posts: 12
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| Tue Sep 05, 2006 6:22 pm |
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Another question, if I may intrude...
When did they duplicate Voyager? I just watched Demon and it seemed they only cloned the crew. Unless there was a duplicate voyager sat conveinently just off screen...
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Lord Borg
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 27 May 2003
Posts: 11214
Location: Vulcan Capital City, Vulcan
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| Tue Sep 05, 2006 8:45 pm |
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Janeway didn't let thim do it I dont think...Anyways, The duplicates ended up being convinced they were the REAL version of the crew. Where the ship came from, I dont know.
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Voyager2004
Commodore
Joined: 13 Apr 2004
Posts: 2070
Location: Silverdale, WA
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| Fri Sep 08, 2006 5:28 am |
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^^^Well obviously she did, because there was a duplication of her, and the entire crew...
-------signature-------
"We all make our own Hell, Mr. Lessing. I hope you enjoy yours."
Kathryn Janeway - Equinox Pt 2
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StarfleetCommand74656
Captain
Joined: 22 May 2006
Posts: 653
Location: On STV
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| Fri Sep 08, 2006 3:36 pm |
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Her aim was to allow the duplicates to experience a new form of sentience, not go gallivanting round the quadrant assuming their lives, so I dunno why she'd provide a ship...
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Untitled
Commander
Joined: 02 Jul 2006
Posts: 396
Location: abandoned
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| Fri Sep 08, 2006 11:31 pm |
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| StarfleetCommand74656 wrote: | | Her aim was to allow the duplicates to experience a new form of sentience, not go gallivanting round the quadrant assuming their lives, so I dunno why she'd provide a ship... |
- Maybe she never did. Maybe the silver blood some how did it without their knowledge.
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Voyager2004
Commodore
Joined: 13 Apr 2004
Posts: 2070
Location: Silverdale, WA
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| Sat Sep 09, 2006 4:22 pm |
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Well, Janeway didn't give them the ship. And one must remember that the ship was partially submerged within the Silver Blood. I find it possible, that after the Silver Blood became the crew, and then believed themselves to be the real thing, the Silver Blood then created a ship, and they unknowingly "continued" their way to the Alpha Quadrant...
That's what I think.
-------signature-------
"We all make our own Hell, Mr. Lessing. I hope you enjoy yours."
Kathryn Janeway - Equinox Pt 2
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StarfleetCommand74656
Captain
Joined: 22 May 2006
Posts: 653
Location: On STV
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| Mon Sep 11, 2006 12:36 pm |
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But, if they had to create a ship, they must have known that they weren't the real Voyagers
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Sarevok
Crewman
Joined: 11 Sep 2006
Posts: 3
Location: Fluidic Space
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| Mon Sep 11, 2006 8:29 pm |
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I believe that they were too preoccupied of being sentient to notice it. It was their first time being able to think after all.
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Voyager2004
Commodore
Joined: 13 Apr 2004
Posts: 2070
Location: Silverdale, WA
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| Tue Sep 12, 2006 4:15 am |
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^^^I agree. Not to mention that, as I said, the memories consumed them. They believed themselves to be Voyager and the crew.
-------signature-------
"We all make our own Hell, Mr. Lessing. I hope you enjoy yours."
Kathryn Janeway - Equinox Pt 2
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Untitled
Commander
Joined: 02 Jul 2006
Posts: 396
Location: abandoned
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| Sat Sep 16, 2006 1:20 am |
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| Voyager2004 wrote: | Well, Janeway didn't give them the ship. And one must remember that the ship was partially submerged within the Silver Blood. I find it possible, that after the Silver Blood became the crew, and then believed themselves to be the real thing, the Silver Blood then created a ship, and they unknowingly "continued" their way to the Alpha Quadrant...
That's what I think. |
- I agree. I know Janeway wouldn't just allow them to duplicate Voyager...that would be violating Starfleet principles...a duplication of their tech. And that's not something I see Janeway doing.
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John Luck Pickard
Lieutenant
Joined: 18 Sep 2006
Posts: 150
Location: Orange Co., NY
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| Mon Sep 18, 2006 2:03 am |
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| Untitled wrote: | | Voyager2004 wrote: | Well, Janeway didn't give them the ship. And one must remember that the ship was partially submerged within the Silver Blood. I find it possible, that after the Silver Blood became the crew, and then believed themselves to be the real thing, the Silver Blood then created a ship, and they unknowingly "continued" their way to the Alpha Quadrant...
That's what I think. |
- I agree. I know Janeway wouldn't just allow them to duplicate Voyager...that would be violating Starfleet principles...a duplication of their tech. And that's not something I see Janeway doing. |
And allowing them to copy herself and all of a starfleet captain's knowledge that goes along with that isn't violating principles? I mean, she gave them knowledge of the Omega directive...something she was quite adamant about not telling anyone else about when the situation came up, as well as any number of things only captains should know. She also knew that her, and the rest of the crew's, memories and life experiences would be duplicated, and, as happened with Harry and Tom, the duplicates would believe they are the genuine product. Did she even sit to think how she would feel to be stranded on a Demon class planet, with no way of getting home, or even at the time, back out into space?
-------signature-------
"Is there a John Luck Pickard here"?, -Q, Tapestry
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Voyager2004
Commodore
Joined: 13 Apr 2004
Posts: 2070
Location: Silverdale, WA
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| Mon Sep 18, 2006 10:11 am |
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They wanted Sentience, how was she supposed to know that they would fabricate a ship and take off? She didn't. And she didn't give ANYBODY but "herself" knowledge that only other captain's should know. She gave it to the "silver blood," which then in turn became HER, so she really didn't give up any information.
-------signature-------
"We all make our own Hell, Mr. Lessing. I hope you enjoy yours."
Kathryn Janeway - Equinox Pt 2
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sixofthree
Sophomore Cadet
Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 10
Location: North west europe
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| Wed Sep 20, 2006 11:14 pm |
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As I remember it in Demon, there was no choice for janeway, because VGR was sinking in the silver blood.
By the time of oblivion it is quite possible that the "silvers", who had been out in space for sometime, are likely to have forgotten about their past.
Though even I think that is a stupid idea.
Funny thing is though, the writers have given the silvers a memory loss. Otherwise it would not have been a surprise for them when they began to disintegrate.
As we know all of the past of the crew was passed on as mentioned by john luck picard above, but they knew what they were by the end of demon.
As for the ship, well harry was completely immersed in Demon, and the ship was belly deep, I think the slivers cloned the ship and janeway just didn't know anything about it.
As I remember it allowing duplication in Demon was the only way she could get VGR released.
As for oblivion, seemed a complete waste of an episode, not that I did not enjoy it, just a dead end of an idea
-------signature-------
"In the forests of the night, what mortal hand or eye could frame thy fearful symmetry." W.Blake
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John Luck Pickard
Lieutenant
Joined: 18 Sep 2006
Posts: 150
Location: Orange Co., NY
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| Thu Sep 21, 2006 12:59 am |
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I agree it was a good, albeit dead-end, episode. However, if I remember correctly, near the end of the episode where they landed in the planet, Janeway was firing something at the "silver blood" that was hurting or killing it. Janeway was presented with a choice between the two of destroying the unknown or duplicating her crew. Lose lose situation I guess.
-------signature-------
"Is there a John Luck Pickard here"?, -Q, Tapestry
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[email protected]
Junior Cadet
Joined: 30 Dec 2006
Posts: 18
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| Tue Jan 02, 2007 2:11 am |
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The lesser of two evils basically.
The ship was sinking. They were going to die if she did not allow them to use the Human DNA.
As for the ship this is interesting as it clearly states that they needed DNA to duplicate. The only thing that I could even possibly think of is the nueral gel packs? and really that is more than far fetched.
And in all reality, I don't see how they could forget they weren't the real crew, in the end of the episode we see them waving goodbye to Voyager
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