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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
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 Tue Sep 19, 2006 6:12 pm |
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Bill O'Reilly was right-on, 100% correct in his Talking Point Memo tonight, and Jon Gibson was in his My Word today as well.
| Quote: | Tough Terror Talk
By Bill O'Reilly
Monday, September 18, 2006 Talking Points Memo
Hi, I'm Bill O'Reilly, reporting tonight from Boston. Thanks for watching us. We're here in New England to celebrate our upcoming 10-year anniversary. We'll be doing the program tomorrow from Faneuil Hall.
Now, I've got a question for you tonight: If terrorists captured your child, what kind of action would you support? That is the subject of this evening's "Talking Points Memo."
Let's stop all the nonsense, shall we? A month ago, two FOX News journalists were captured by terrorists in Gaza. Their lives obviously were in danger. Thank God they were released.
But if some terrorist was captured, and had information about where these guys were being held, are you telling me the authorities can only ask them name, rank, and jihad number? Is that what you're telling me John McCain, Colin Powell, and other senators who oppose coerced interrogation?
Thanks to Newsweek magazine, we now know what we're talking about. As you may know, the military, thanks to the McCain bill, can now not do anything to coerce information out of suspected terrorists -- nothing at all. In fact, according to The Wall Street Journal, American police have more latitude in interrogating criminals than the military has in questioning detainees captured on the battlefield.
Read more at FoxNews.com. |
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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WeAz
Commodore
Joined: 03 Apr 2004
Posts: 1519
Location: Where you aren't
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| Tue Sep 19, 2006 6:45 pm |
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Ok. Pretty article in the SF Chronicle.
| Quote: |
Bush Acts Like a Spoiled Brat
President Bush is portraying the same type of character that he claims Saddam Hussien is. Irrational, implaccable, determined to do only what he wants, and not give an inch. He's at the point that he's not going to let anyone stop him. He may be in for a surprise.
Facing a GOP revolt in the Senate, Bush urged Congress on Friday to join in backing legislation to spell out strategies for interrogating and trying terror suspects, saying, "The enemy wants to attack us again. Time is running out." The Dissidents group led by Sen. John McCain, and backed by Colin Powell, said Bush's approach would jeprodize US troops.
The funny thing is, the rest of the world often regards the United States as the child, a rich, spoiled, headstrong brat and bully that always wants things its way, and if it doesn't get it, its going to take its marbles and go home. |
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
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| Tue Sep 19, 2006 6:48 pm |
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Who wrote that? What an idiot. But what else to expect from a San Francisco publication? 
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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WeAz
Commodore
Joined: 03 Apr 2004
Posts: 1519
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| Tue Sep 19, 2006 7:11 pm |
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RM, listen. Why did those two hypothetical terrorists kidnap a child. Because they are brutal, and evil. By allowing tortu- "Tough Interrogation", we sink to their level!
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
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| Tue Sep 19, 2006 7:21 pm |
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| WeAz wrote: | | RM, listen. Why did those two hypothetical terrorists kidnap a child. Because they are brutal, and evil. By allowing tortu- "Tough Interrogation", we sink to their level! |
As O'Reilly said,
| Quote: | I also believe the debate has hurt Senator McCain, and Colin Powell, and others who put a torture label on things that are obviously not torture.
Causing a suspected terrorist discomfort is necessary at times to get information. Those techniques have to be closely monitored and used only with presidential approval. But enough is enough with this baloney. We're fighting a war here. All the theory in the world is not going to defeat the enemy -- who is laughing at us as this debate takes the Senate floor this week. They're laughing at us. |
The things that the CIA has been shown to do are far from torture! Our freakin' police officers have more latitude than the military when it comes to interrogating terrorists captured on the battlefield!
Sleep deprivation, loud noise, cold rooms, and a slap on the belly are far from torture. Not even close, and allowing coerce interrogation and tough measures is faaaar from sinking down to their level. How you can't see the difference is beyond me, and really quite concerning.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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WeAz
Commodore
Joined: 03 Apr 2004
Posts: 1519
Location: Where you aren't
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| Tue Sep 19, 2006 7:34 pm |
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We need to adhere to the Geneva Convention.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
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| Tue Sep 19, 2006 7:35 pm |
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| WeAz wrote: | | We need to adhere to the Geneva Convention. |
And we do, not that the terrorists fall under it--which they don't.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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WeAz
Commodore
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Location: Where you aren't
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| Tue Sep 19, 2006 7:42 pm |
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Does it really matter? We captured them, and we need to treat them better than they would us. We need to act as we are expected.
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Republican_Man
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| Tue Sep 19, 2006 7:44 pm |
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And we do treat them better than they would us!
Give me one piece of evidence showing that, save for those few rare cases (Abu Graihb in particular, which borders on torture), we have actually tortured people. Show me how the United States is torturing and sinking to their level. Then don't tell me what you wouldn't do but what you would do in interrogations.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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WeAz
Commodore
Joined: 03 Apr 2004
Posts: 1519
Location: Where you aren't
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| Tue Sep 19, 2006 7:52 pm |
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Abu Grahib was torture. Don't dispute it. If Bush is so afraid of CIA employee's being tryed as War Criminals, then there has to be something they do, that is really bad.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
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| Tue Sep 19, 2006 7:56 pm |
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| WeAz wrote: | | Abu Grahib was torture. Don't dispute it. If Bush is so afraid of CIA employee's being tryed as War Criminals, then there has to be something they do, that is really bad. |
IMO, it wasn't torture. It was unfeddered abuse that deserved the punishment it got. Take a look at the Soviet Gulag or al-Qaeda for what torture is 
And no, there doesn't have to be, and there isn't. The stuff that the CIA is doing to save lives and get information is NOT torture, and that is evident.
You still didn't answer my question. Save for a few rare, disputable incidents that could be considered torture, show me some form of torture that the United States has carried out, particularly by the CIA and particularly actions that are common place and not rare abuses of authority.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Puck
The Texan
Joined: 05 Jan 2004
Posts: 5596
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| Tue Sep 19, 2006 7:56 pm |
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| WeAz wrote: | Ok. Pretty article in the SF Chronicle.
| Quote: |
Bush Acts Like a Spoiled Brat
President Bush is portraying the same type of character that he claims Saddam Hussien is. Irrational, implaccable, determined to do only what he wants, and not give an inch. He's at the point that he's not going to let anyone stop him. He may be in for a surprise.
Facing a GOP revolt in the Senate, Bush urged Congress on Friday to join in backing legislation to spell out strategies for interrogating and trying terror suspects, saying, "The enemy wants to attack us again. Time is running out." The Dissidents group led by Sen. John McCain, and backed by Colin Powell, said Bush's approach would jeprodize US troops.
The funny thing is, the rest of the world often regards the United States as the child, a rich, spoiled, headstrong brat and bully that always wants things its way, and if it doesn't get it, its going to take its marbles and go home. |
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Please provide a link to this article.
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WeAz
Commodore
Joined: 03 Apr 2004
Posts: 1519
Location: Where you aren't
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| Tue Sep 19, 2006 8:00 pm |
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SF Chronicle. Its a written paper.
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Puck
The Texan
Joined: 05 Jan 2004
Posts: 5596
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
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| Tue Sep 19, 2006 8:14 pm |
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Well, clearly it was an opinion piece, but okay, so it was from some average citizen.
Now that that's settled, what's your instance of torture, WeAz? You've accused this country of committing torture. Give me an example, and don't say Abu Graihb, to back up this radical claim.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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WeAz
Commodore
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| Tue Sep 19, 2006 8:20 pm |
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I can't give you an example, as we don't publish what the interrogators do everyday.
But, the fact the Bush is stopping them from interrogating, because he doesn't want them tried as war criminals, shows they aren't doing things many would approve of.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
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| Tue Sep 19, 2006 8:24 pm |
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| WeAz wrote: | I can't give you an example, as we don't publish what the interrogators do everyday.
But, the fact the Bush is stopping them from interrogating, because he doesn't want them tried as war criminals, shows they aren't doing things many would approve of. |
So you're going off of a gut feeling and what you take as logic to validate your accusations that the United States of America not only endorses, but commits act of torture? I'm sorry, but that's not good enough.
At least you were honest, though, which brings me to my next question, one which I asked earlier: What would you do if you were given the task of interrogating a prisoner? I got that you would play music (though not necessarily loudly) and some things that you won't do, but what are some other things that you would do in an interrogation of a prisoner who, say, has knowledge of an impending attack against civilians, one which is thought to occur within the next week.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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WeAz
Commodore
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| Tue Sep 19, 2006 8:27 pm |
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I don't know. I am not an interrogator. I don't know their methods.
EDIT: I'm not saying that we endorse torture. I'm saying we commit it.
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IntrepidIsMe
Pimp Handed
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| Tue Sep 19, 2006 8:28 pm |
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Obviously going off topic. Drifting back, please.
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"Nelly, I am Heathcliff! He's always, always in my mind: not as a pleasure, any more than I am always a pleasure to myself, but as my own being."
-Wuthering Heights
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
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| Tue Sep 19, 2006 8:31 pm |
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| WeAz wrote: | I don't know. I am not an interrogator. I don't know their methods.
EDIT: I'm not saying that we endorse torture. I'm saying we commit it. |
Which is endorsement as well.
| IntrepidIsMe wrote: | | Obviously going off topic. Drifting back, please. |
I don't think this is off-topic, though, because it's a debate over whether the US tortures and what we should do. That is entirely within the realm of this debate, no?
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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IntrepidIsMe
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| Tue Sep 19, 2006 8:33 pm |
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Yes. However, discussing what individual members would do if they interrogated suspects, isn't.
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"Nelly, I am Heathcliff! He's always, always in my mind: not as a pleasure, any more than I am always a pleasure to myself, but as my own being."
-Wuthering Heights
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
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| Tue Sep 19, 2006 8:34 pm |
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| IntrepidIsMe wrote: | | Yes. However, discussing what individual members would do if they interrogated suspects, isn't. |
How so? What one thinks should be done regarding interrogations is entirely within the realm of this debate.
But fine. I'll start a separate topic about it.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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WeAz
Commodore
Joined: 03 Apr 2004
Posts: 1519
Location: Where you aren't
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| Tue Sep 19, 2006 8:41 pm |
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All right, well, I won't be talking much. I have Geometry... 
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
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Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Tue Sep 19, 2006 8:42 pm |
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| WeAz wrote: | | All right, well, I won't be talking much. I have Geometry... |
Excuses, excuses, excuses 
I know not where else this particular debate can travel...
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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WeAz
Commodore
Joined: 03 Apr 2004
Posts: 1519
Location: Where you aren't
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| Tue Sep 19, 2006 8:53 pm |
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I hate Geo. I would rather spend a week on an island with Coulter than do this...
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