klingons - Kirk the first to meet them?

the1st · Lieutenant, Junior Grade Joined: 03 Apr 2006 Posts: 83

wasnt kirk supposed to be the firt of star fleet to meet the klingons,not archer??

[Topic title edited]

Brightstar82 · **Tue Apr 04, 2006 6:17 pm**

Enterprise Takes Place Before Kirk was every heard of.

the1st · Lieutenant, Junior Grade Joined: 03 Apr 2006 Posts: 83

yep in know that but i thought kirk was the first to make contact with the klingon race.but in enterprise they meet them and have hoshe (dodgy speller)translate

Lord Borg · **Tue Apr 04, 2006 6:40 pm**

No, kirk wasn't the first ship to meet the Klingons, they had known the Federation long before Kirk

the1st · Lieutenant, Junior Grade Joined: 03 Apr 2006 Posts: 83

i see,i shall have a word with a trekkie friend of mine....he said this was one of the reasons he didnt like enterprise(timeline)

Republican_Man · **Tue Apr 04, 2006 6:49 pm**

Well, it is my understanding that many of the established timeline events were changed, wrongfully depending on your bias, thanks to Enterprise, and so it is, IMO, a justifiable reason to be opposed to it.

Lord Borg · **Tue Apr 04, 2006 6:55 pm**

The point is, it wasn't established that the Klingons and Kirk were the FC...

Republican_Man · **Tue Apr 04, 2006 6:56 pm**

Yes, that I know. I don't remember seeing anything about that before.

Vincent · **Wed Apr 05, 2006 12:05 am**

Wasn't it 2218? Or was it another date for first contact with the klingons?

StarfleetCommand74656 · Captain Joined: 22 May 2006 Posts: 653 Location: On STV

Yeah. the official first contact with Klingons date is 2218

lionhead · **Mon Sep 04, 2006 4:40 pm**

Actually the first human to meet a Klingon is a Farmer.

Lord Borg · **Tue Sep 05, 2006 2:43 am**

And they met before 2218, no one had ever stated the actual dates of first contact before, aside from HINTs, and only HINTS in TOS and TNG, (But, if TOS was right, then TNG contradicted it, which fans claim is the correct one, and was contradicted by everything else

)

StarfleetCommand74656 · Captain Joined: 22 May 2006 Posts: 653 Location: On STV

Check up the Star Trek: Encyclopaedia; Klingons

John Luck Pickard · **Mon Sep 18, 2006 1:48 am**

The crap thing about Enterprise is that it wrote with no regard to plausible ideas followed through in the novels that explained several unknowns throughout the Star Trek franchise. For instance, The Original Series trilogy of novels, "My Brother's Keeper", neatly explains why the Klingon brow changes from normal to rigid as the series go on. However, after the creation of Enterprise, that idea can not be considered worth anything. Overall, "Star Trek" would be in better shape had Enterprise not aired.

riker1384 · Crewman Joined: 21 Sep 2007 Posts: 4

You might be thinking of the Romulans. Kirk was the first to speak face-to-face with a Romulan over a comm channel, in the episode "Balance of Terror."

Founder · **Fri Nov 16, 2007 8:14 am**

I don't think it was ever established that the Klingons made first contact with Humanity through Kirk. TOS seemed to imply the Federation knew of the Klingons before Kirk encountered them.

Tyvek · **Sun Nov 25, 2007 2:42 am**

Captain Cirk · Junior Cadet Joined: 16 Apr 2008 Posts: 19

Kirk obviously went back in time and was the first.

Archer is Kirks child. A result of a mix up with the time machine and a broken prophylactic.

squiggy · **Thu Apr 17, 2008 2:02 pm**

Lord Borg · **Sun Aug 10, 2008 7:07 pm**

Actually...no, that's not correct, it wasn't proven that the entire series was a holodeck program. Anyways, a line McCoy said in TOS said that the Federation and Klingons knew each other since at least 2218, Kirk wasn't even alive then, so he definitely wasn't the first to meet them.

Spartan 688 · Ensign Joined: 11 Nov 2007 Posts: 57

the first ever person to make first contact with the klingons was william shakespeare according to star trek lore/hisotry wat ever you want to call it

In Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country, Chancellor Gorkon says, "You have never experienced Shakespeare until you have read him in the original Klingon." so this would have been between 26 April 1564 � 23 April 1616

Lord Borg · **Sat Aug 16, 2008 5:11 pm**

Thats doubtful, if anything thats just showing Klingon arrogance that anything Klingon related is better, even if it has Human origins. Saying it was in the Original Klingon can mean countless things, rather then just first contact or they saw it first, whatever. Most likely what happened here, is they found the text of William Shakespeare, either through some sort of raid or cultural exchange which might make sense towards the era of the movie, if talks of a treaty was going on. In any case, that's not real evidence of a true first contact, with the history of alien encounters being told from Earth's standpoint, I'd imagine the Klingons would have come up a time or two if they met Earth that early.

calvin · **Mon Aug 18, 2008 11:57 am**

actually, if that quote was correct then it could also imply that Shakespeare was a Klingon himself, not that he was the first human to make contact with Klingons. but the limited biographical records we have of "Shakespeare" make no indication of such, so he was probably just a human who translated the works to English.

however, "in its original [blank]" generally means that the work was written in that language, _originally_. i don't really see how else this phrase can be interpreted.

it doesn't necessarily mean Shakespeare was involved in _first_ contact, but the laws of deduction would necessitate that there was human-Klingon contact at least as early as when Shakespeare published his first plays.

therefore, unless there's evidence in Star Trek canon that there was contact between humans and Klingons even earlier than when Shakespeare's works were first published on Earth, then that has to be considered the most educated guess for when first contact between humans and Klingons occured.

otherwise, you'd have to change the definition of 'first contact' to mean the first human-Klingon contact publicly acknowledged by human society. that of course, would be much later.

robbiewebster · **Mon Aug 18, 2008 6:49 pm**

Lord Borg · **Tue Aug 19, 2008 1:01 am**

Firstly, I'd like to mention that the works of William Shakespeare have been mentioned in Star Trek since the days of The Original Series. Moving on, though...

I fail to see how that makes William Shakespeare a Human who translated the works, or was an actual Klingon himself, posing as a Human or whatever. Certainly, the Klingons would have invaded and conquered Earth, not choose to live amongst them posting as members of their species, particularly as in that time period, thats what they did, invade other worlds.

General Changs words should be taken with a grain of salt, he could have meant a wide variety of things, which could include something along the lines of the original Klingon interpretation of Shakespeare's work. Again, leaning on the arrogance, perhaps whomever had translated the works made some...edits, or several of them felt that the works in the Klingon language gave it a new meaning (which wouldn't be surprising). It could also be a load of BS, considering the banter going back and forth between Kirk and Chang (The latter, who said "We need more breathing room!" which Kirk retorted as a quote from Hitler).

Again, I fail to see where a hint to what your saying other then some sort of arrogance on Changs part, or that he was trying to get some sort of reaction out of the Enterprise crew (In Particular, Kirk, a man who several Klingons throughout the series and movies have said they'd have done anything to face him in battle).