| Author |
Message |
Greenman
Crewman
Joined: 17 Jul 2006
Posts: 2
|
 Mon Jul 17, 2006 3:50 pm How come the temperal agents did not stop voyager in Endgame |
|
In a couple of shows the time cops had to fix damage done to the timeline. Voyager using tech from 30 years in the future must have come up on their rador.
|
|
|
Greenman
Crewman
Joined: 17 Jul 2006
Posts: 2
|
| Mon Jul 17, 2006 3:52 pm |
|
Voyager was full of plot holes, but this seems to be a big one.
|
|
|
Hitchhiker
Rear Admiral
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 3514
Location: Ontario, Canada
|
| Sun Aug 06, 2006 12:55 am |
|
The answer is quite obvious. All the agents were on a coffee break.
I can show logical evidence too! Our century is addicted to coffee. By the 23rd century, this addiction is so bad that yeomans spend their time serving it to bridge officers. By the 24th century, it has captains like Janeway slaves to it day and night, forcing their replicators to produce mass quantities of the beverage! Just imagine the sort of people we are in the 30th century! "Coffee, coffee, coffee, must have COFFEEEEE!"
Sad but true.
|
|
|
Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
|
| Sun Aug 06, 2006 1:00 am |
|
 Too funny, Tach. Too funny. Where do you come up with this stuff? 
-------signature-------
"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
|
|
|
MakeItSo
Commander
Joined: 05 Jan 2006
Posts: 406
Location: Somewhere in California
|
| Sun Aug 06, 2006 3:58 am |
|
| Hitchhiker wrote: | The answer is quite obvious. All the agents were on a coffee break.
I can show logical evidence too! Our century is addicted to coffee. By the 23rd century, this addiction is so bad that yeomans spend their time serving it to bridge officers. By the 24th century, it has captains like Janeway slaves to it day and night, forcing their replicators to produce mass quantities of the beverage! Just imagine the sort of people we are in the 30th century! "Coffee, coffee, coffee, must have COFFEEEEE!"
Sad but true. |
LMAO!!! That is great! I can only imagine since there are like at least 5 or more Starbucks where I live. Too much caffeine. But it's good... That makes sence though. But they only had so much to do with Voyager in 2 hours so they most likely ran out of time. Which is why I think they should have a movie or a TV movie to tie up all the loose ends. 
|
|
|
Voyager2004
Commodore
Joined: 13 Apr 2004
Posts: 2070
Location: Silverdale, WA
|
| Sun Aug 06, 2006 10:19 am |
|
| Hitchhiker wrote: | The answer is quite obvious. All the agents were on a coffee break.
I can show logical evidence too! Our century is addicted to coffee. By the 23rd century, this addiction is so bad that yeomans spend their time serving it to bridge officers. By the 24th century, it has captains like Janeway slaves to it day and night, forcing their replicators to produce mass quantities of the beverage! Just imagine the sort of people we are in the 30th century! "Coffee, coffee, coffee, must have COFFEEEEE!"
Sad but true. |
Haha...love this! It's quite funny, and, funny enough, your evidence is quite compelling! LOL...
-------signature-------
"We all make our own Hell, Mr. Lessing. I hope you enjoy yours."
Kathryn Janeway - Equinox Pt 2
|
|
|
Admiral Dani�l
Dutch Admiral
Joined: 06 Sep 2005
Posts: 2177
Location: Borg Cube 31572 - Join us now!
|
| Sat Aug 19, 2006 8:19 pm |
|
| Hitchhiker wrote: | The answer is quite obvious. All the agents were on a coffee break.
I can show logical evidence too! Our century is addicted to coffee. By the 23rd century, this addiction is so bad that yeomans spend their time serving it to bridge officers. By the 24th century, it has captains like Janeway slaves to it day and night, forcing their replicators to produce mass quantities of the beverage! Just imagine the sort of people we are in the 30th century! "Coffee, coffee, coffee, must have COFFEEEEE!"
Sad but true. |
You are fantastic! I actually fell off my chair laughing when I read this! Lol... but now for the logic:
You forgot that the time cops were only made AFTER that Voyager got home... the Admiral got from a time BEFORE time cops. She got the first chance to change time, later when Voy returned the time cops saw this was the good thing she had done so they didn't changed it further
|
|
|
Voyager2004
Commodore
Joined: 13 Apr 2004
Posts: 2070
Location: Silverdale, WA
|
| Sat Aug 19, 2006 9:02 pm |
|
While yes, you are correct, you're also wrong...
the time cops, as you put it, were "made" after Voyager got home...yes, so in the timeline before Voyager was returned EARLY, the time cops should have seen what the Admiral was doing and stop her...
But at the same time, you're right, by Voyager getting home early it therefore changes the future and what the Time cops see is what was supposed to happen.
So it's all just one big paradox that really can't be explained...
-------signature-------
"We all make our own Hell, Mr. Lessing. I hope you enjoy yours."
Kathryn Janeway - Equinox Pt 2
|
|
|
Admiral Dani�l
Dutch Admiral
Joined: 06 Sep 2005
Posts: 2177
Location: Borg Cube 31572 - Join us now!
|
| Sat Aug 19, 2006 9:06 pm |
|
| Voyager2004 wrote: | While yes, you are correct, you're also wrong...
the time cops, as you put it, were "made" after Voyager got home...yes, so in the timeline before Voyager was returned EARLY, the time cops should have seen what the Admiral was doing and stop her...
But at the same time, you're right, by Voyager getting home early it therefore changes the future and what the Time cops see is what was supposed to happen.
So it's all just one big paradox that really can't be explained... |
You're right I was just showing that it's not only a BIG fault its a minor fault. btw with the time cops it would take 4 eps for endgame
|
|
|
La Forge
Bajoran Colonel
Joined: 16 Feb 2006
Posts: 2125
Location: Babylon 5
|
| Sat Aug 19, 2006 9:09 pm |
|
A paradox, eh? True. However, I will attempt to explain. The Temporal Federation obviously doesn't do their job very well, now do they? Here is their evaluation report...F-. I had to make a new grade for their "awesome" time-fixing skills.
I mean...where were they when Sisko, Dax, and Bashir went back to the 21st Century and changed history? Well...Sisko and crew had to fix it themselves. Lazy...*mumble* *grumble*
Where were they when Data went back to the 19th Century and chilled with Mark Twain? Who knows? As HH said, probably on a coffee break.
Where were they when the Enterprise-C just poofed into the the ENT-D's time, screwing up history, in the process?
Where were they when Quark, Rom, and Nog went back in time to the 20th Century, to Roswell, exposing the existence of aliens?
And many, many more examples.
The Temporal Federation equals bad.
-------signature-------
You'll never hear me say this again in my life, but...
Go Red Sox!
|
|
|
Admiral Dani�l
Dutch Admiral
Joined: 06 Sep 2005
Posts: 2177
Location: Borg Cube 31572 - Join us now!
|
| Sat Aug 19, 2006 9:12 pm |
|
| La Forge wrote: | A paradox, eh? True. However, I will attempt to explain. The Temporal Federation obviously doesn't do their job very well, now do they? Here is their evaluation report...F-. I had to make a new grade for their "awesome" time-fixing skills.
I mean...where were they when Sisko, Dax, and Bashir went back to the 21st Century and changed history? Well...Sisko and crew had to fix it themselves. Lazy...*mumble* *grumble*
Where were they when Data went back to the 19th Century and chilled with Mark Twain? Who knows? As HH said, probably on a coffee break.
Where were they when the Enterprise-C just poofed into the the ENT-D's time, screwing up history, in the process?
Where were they when Quark, Rom, and Nog went back in time to the 20th Century, to Roswell, exposing the existence of aliens?
And many, many more examples.
The Temporal Federation equals bad. |
This is all cause of the ENT series it was a big mistake making a temporal federation it messed all the other series cause it was the latest made while it was the first in timeline.
|
|
|
La Forge
Bajoran Colonel
Joined: 16 Feb 2006
Posts: 2125
Location: Babylon 5
|
| Sat Aug 19, 2006 9:13 pm |
|
I think that ENT did a good job with the Temporal Federation. The "time cops" were there when they needed to be there, in ENT. Not in VOY. Not in VOY...
-------signature-------
You'll never hear me say this again in my life, but...
Go Red Sox!
|
|
|
Admiral Dani�l
Dutch Admiral
Joined: 06 Sep 2005
Posts: 2177
Location: Borg Cube 31572 - Join us now!
|
| Sat Aug 19, 2006 9:15 pm |
|
| La Forge wrote: | | I think that ENT did a good job with the Temporal Federation. The "time cops" were there when they needed to be there, in ENT. Not in VOY. Not in VOY... |
That may be so they shouldve had paid more attention to the other series cause this is scrambling them up
|
|
|
Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant
|
| Sat Aug 19, 2006 9:35 pm |
|
I could of sworn I made a topic about this somewhere...
I've gone to lengths to discuss this blunder that VOY created and ENT continued. I hate the Temporal Federation because they make absolutely no sense. None whatsoever. They are NO WHERE to be found in TOS, TNG, and DS9. You would think they would pop up when the Borg were gonna stop first contact. Nope.... 
|
|
|
Voyager2004
Commodore
Joined: 13 Apr 2004
Posts: 2070
Location: Silverdale, WA
|
| Sat Aug 19, 2006 11:58 pm |
|
| La Forge wrote: | | Where were they when the Enterprise-C just poofed into the the ENT-D's time, screwing up history, in the process? |
Ahh...but this wasn't where the Time Cops needed to fix anything. Because they went through some kind of trans-dimensional time rift or something and they disappeared. Because they disappeared and didn't stop the Romulans, that's what led to the complete change in the Federation. And because the Enterprise-C hadn't been there to hold off the Romulans, the Federation's future was obviously really shaky, seeing as to how it looked like there wasn't going to be much of a future for them UNLESS the Enterprise-C went BACK to their correct time to hold off the Romulans. So the Time Cops can't be blamed there.
| Quote: | | I mean...where were they when Sisko, Dax, and Bashir went back to the 21st Century and changed history? |
They really didn't change history. They kept it the same. Now granted, from what we saw Bell died and then Sisko ACTED in place of Bell in the Bell Riots. Now the ONLY reason Sisko did that was because he knew that History had said it happened. He didn't know that it was HIM that was going to be leading the Bell riots. So the Riots only happened because he was there. But to his knowledge, and that of the Temporal Federation, those riots were SUPPOSED to happen, so if those riots were already recorded in their history BEFORE Sisko was born, who's to say that it shouldn't have happened? Maybe the crew's presence is what led to Mr. Bell's death, so Sisko did what he knew needed to be done. -OR- Those riots weren't even supposed to happen, but because he had already gone back in time to do the Bell riots and then grew up knowing that they were supposed to happen, did it, and then learned that they really weren't supposed to happen, but he knew that doing it was a GOOD thing, so he did it. See, it's just a paradox. The Future and Temporal Federation are subject to these paradoxes as well. I hope I made sense in my ramblings above. It's hard to keep ones thoughts making sense when he can't actually explain face to face...Sorry if I confused you...
And the same is to be said with the Ferengi.
And about Picard's going back to the 19th Century, let's just say that Picard saved the Time Cops the trouble of doing their own work...
I agree, however, that they shouldn't have really brought in the existence of such a Federation. Not yet...But they did it because it made for some good episodes in the HERE and NOW, instead of the "Long run" for Trek...
-------signature-------
"We all make our own Hell, Mr. Lessing. I hope you enjoy yours."
Kathryn Janeway - Equinox Pt 2
|
|
|
La Forge
Bajoran Colonel
Joined: 16 Feb 2006
Posts: 2125
Location: Babylon 5
|
| Sun Aug 20, 2006 12:06 am |
|
Don't worry. I understand your arguments. While you may have a point in the ENT-C case, the case of the Bell Riots is questionable. As said by the temporal investigators (from the 24th Century) in "Trials and Tribble-ations" temporal investigators hate paradoxes and the thought of a paradox is questionable. Still, the explanation, for the here and now, is valid.
Trek has its share of plot holes thats for sure. Heh.
-------signature-------
You'll never hear me say this again in my life, but...
Go Red Sox!
|
|
|
Voyager2004
Commodore
Joined: 13 Apr 2004
Posts: 2070
Location: Silverdale, WA
|
| Sun Aug 20, 2006 12:10 am |
|
Ya, there's really no question on the Enterprise-C, but I see what you say about the Bell Riots being Questionable. And you're right, in "Trials and Tribble-ations" they did say that. I haven't seen that in a while. But, I agree, the Bell Riots are definitely questionable. About whether or not they really happened before Sisko's interference, but technically, Sisko's interference is unending thanks in part to the paradox...LOL...
-------signature-------
"We all make our own Hell, Mr. Lessing. I hope you enjoy yours."
Kathryn Janeway - Equinox Pt 2
|
|
|
Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant
|
| Sun Aug 20, 2006 12:25 am |
|
So wait a minute, your explanation for why they didn't fix a damn thing is because Picard, Sisko, etc did it for them? I'm sorry, but that's a cop out. Are you telling me they're sitting there, seeing a temporal incursion, and then right before they decide to fix it, they're like "Eh....naw. We'll let Picard, Sisko, etc deal with it."
So...what are they getting paid for again? Not to mention, I don't think the argument of "B happened before A, so C is no longer in existance." If VOY created TEMPORAL SHIELDING, then the Temporal Federation would have it too. So if the ENT-C messed up time, it shouldn't affect them. I mean, c'mon, how effective would they be in fixing time if time alterations make them dissapear?
|
|
|
Lord Borg
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 27 May 2003
Posts: 11214
Location: Vulcan Capital City, Vulcan
|
| Sun Aug 20, 2006 1:21 am |
|
Well, in a season five episode they clearly show stupidity when they say their tech isnt as advanced as the tech in sevens body is
|
|
|
Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant
|
| Sun Aug 20, 2006 1:23 am |
|
| Lord Borg wrote: | | Well, in a season five episode they clearly show stupidity when they say their tech isnt as advanced as the tech in sevens body is |
How can 29th century Federation be less advanced than a 24th century Borg?
|
|
|
Lord Borg
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 27 May 2003
Posts: 11214
Location: Vulcan Capital City, Vulcan
|
| Sun Aug 20, 2006 2:04 am |
|
I have NO idea. It was the episode "Relitivity" the tech they needed wasn't as advanced as the tech in sevens body.
|
|
|
Voyager2004
Commodore
Joined: 13 Apr 2004
Posts: 2070
Location: Silverdale, WA
|
| Sun Aug 20, 2006 2:14 am |
|
| Founder wrote: | So wait a minute, your explanation for why they didn't fix a damn thing is because Picard, Sisko, etc did it for them? I'm sorry, but that's a cop out. Are you telling me they're sitting there, seeing a temporal incursion, and then right before they decide to fix it, they're like "Eh....naw. We'll let Picard, Sisko, etc deal with it."
So...what are they getting paid for again? Not to mention, I don't think the argument of "B happened before A, so C is no longer in existance." If VOY created TEMPORAL SHIELDING, then the Temporal Federation would have it too. So if the ENT-C messed up time, it shouldn't affect them. I mean, c'mon, how effective would they be in fixing time if time alterations make them dissapear? |
Wait wait, I never said that They said that Sisko could fix it for them...I was saying that in all actuality, it might have been at one time the REAL Bell that led the Bell Riots, but he died, maybe because of Sisko's presence (who's to say really? We don't know, but anything's possible when dealing with time) and the Temporal Federation might not have noticed...who knows...like La Forge said, that's questionable...
Now, my saying about letting Picard do it for them was merely sarcasm. I mean, that's the "best" and simplest explanation I can think of, but at the same time not to be taken too seriously...I mean, they really didn't affect the timeline...TOO horribly...and it saved the Temporal Federation from having to send someone back in time, using up one of their 3 transports before reaching Temporal Psychosis...So, yes, what I "proposed" pretty much is a cop out...but it's all open for debate...LOL...
Now with the Enterprise-C, I firmly stand behind what I propsed for that. Because it's really a logical answer for what happened.
And I can understand one's thinking about the Temporal shielding. It would make sense...but in the case of the Enterprise-C, there was NO BACK travel in time, it was a mere freak accident that the Enterprise-C jumped forward. So because there was no real attempt by someone from the future to change the past, the time cops would have no reason to go back, not to mention because it's unlikely that they would be able to detect such a freak accident, they would then be susceptible to such time alterations.
And even with temporal shielding, if somone were able to go back in time and alter the Federation's past, for example, to cripple the FUTURE Federation and risk not having a 29th Century Temporal Fleet, then if the person went back and succesfully altered the timeline before getting caught, then the changes would affect the timeline, therefore potentially getting rid of the Future Temporal Federation. And if they get rid of the Temporal Federation then there is nobody to make temporal shielding, and no way to be protected.
So, yes, I would like to believe there is a way to not be affected by the past, but they would be affected by the past. Now, if for example, they had one loan ship that lived outside normal space time, that would prevent them from being affected by the changes in the timeline. I would buy and believe that. But having an entire Temporal Federation protected by a technology that could be prevented from being invented...no, I don't buy it. Because it's too easy to go and get rid of that technology.
-------signature-------
"We all make our own Hell, Mr. Lessing. I hope you enjoy yours."
Kathryn Janeway - Equinox Pt 2
|
|
|
Voyager2004
Commodore
Joined: 13 Apr 2004
Posts: 2070
Location: Silverdale, WA
|
| Sun Aug 20, 2006 2:15 am |
|
| Lord Borg wrote: | | I have NO idea. It was the episode "Relitivity" the tech they needed wasn't as advanced as the tech in sevens body. |
Hmm...I'll have to go back and watch that. But unfortunately not tonight. I have duty tomorrow and it's late. So I'll have to do it Monday...I'll post my findings...
-------signature-------
"We all make our own Hell, Mr. Lessing. I hope you enjoy yours."
Kathryn Janeway - Equinox Pt 2
|
|
|
Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant
|
| Sun Aug 20, 2006 2:20 am |
|
The problem with that though is, it doesn't fit the situations that happened on the shows. For example, you said that if someone went back with the intent to sabotage the temporal Fed., I can MAYBE understand them getting destroyed.
But First contact? Why were they not protected against that?
Why didn't they help Kirk get whales to SAVE their past Fed?
As for the argument about the Bell Riots. The Defiant detected that the Federation was wiped out. Why didn't the Temporal Federation detect that? Surely, at least their SHIPS had temporal shielding if not the planets and stations.
And the ENT-C. It should still affect them. Just cause it didn't go back in time should mean nothing. It still messed up the timeline.
The fact is, this...idea is filled with plot holes. It needs a lot more thinking.
|
|
|
Voyager2004
Commodore
Joined: 13 Apr 2004
Posts: 2070
Location: Silverdale, WA
|
| Sun Aug 20, 2006 2:30 am |
|
| Founder wrote: | The problem with that though is, it doesn't fit the situations that happened on the shows. For example, you said that if someone went back with the intent to sabotage the temporal Fed., I can MAYBE understand them getting destroyed.
But First contact? Why were they not protected against that?
I don't know. Because they don't have temporal shielding obviously.
Why didn't they help Kirk get whales to SAVE their past Fed?
As for the argument about the Bell Riots. The Defiant detected that the Federation was wiped out. Why didn't the Temporal Federation detect that? Surely, at least their SHIPS had temporal shielding if not the planets and stations.
How could the Defiant, in the 20th Century, detect something in the 24th Century? I mean, granted, I should go back and watch the episode again...but with time constraints at the moment, I can't, but will come Monday...
And the ENT-C. It should still affect them. Just cause it didn't go back in time should mean nothing. It still messed up the timeline.
Like I said, it was a freak accident. How can someone detect something that was a freak accident? I mean, it's like..."Oh hey, the Enterprise-C did..." *Flash* the entire future changes because they can't shield themselves and all their future with a technology that was just wiped from existence...Now as I said, if there were a ship and crew that operated outside of Space/Time, unaffected by ANY possible changes in the timeline, JUST like Annorax's ship and crew in "Year of Hell," Then I'd believe it. I would believe that one ship could restore the timeline. Could restore what went wrong. Could stop who did what. Could go back in time to put the Enterprise-C back where it was supposed to be destroyed. I would buy that.
The fact is, this...idea is filled with plot holes. It needs a lot more thinking. |
I don't think it's filled with plot holes. It makes perfect sense. Because the technology in question was never created. So it can't protect whoever it's protecting. But if all of those planets, and personnel and life-forms lived outside of Space/Time, then they would be unaffected. At which point, it would defeat the purpose of living...
-------signature-------
"We all make our own Hell, Mr. Lessing. I hope you enjoy yours."
Kathryn Janeway - Equinox Pt 2
|
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group
Star Trek �, in all its various forms, are trademarks & copyrights of Paramount Pictures
This site has no official connection with Star Trek or Paramount Pictures
Site content/Site design elements owned by Morphy and is meant to only be an archive/Tribute to STV.com
|
Search
FAQ
Log in
