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Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant
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 Thu Jun 15, 2006 1:11 am |
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| PrankishSmart wrote: | Well my idea of black holes could account for that and together with random chaos. If something is being interacted by something else from the so called future it could account for the behaviour. Another idea is that the universe constantly collapes and expands, but that would majorly change our understanding of the universe. All we can do is speculate. Telescopes are wonderous tools, though.
into the universe itself.
Yeah, but I'm asking not just how the black whole exists and time exists. I'm saying how does it even have the capability to affect time and channel it?
Yes thats correct. Also I have yet to be surprised but would check out resources. The thing is though my level of understanding can't be put down to faith and absoulutes. I prefer to theorise and speculate from the limited (or vast depends what way you look at it) data we have of the universe. What data does religion base it's beliefs off? Thats why i'm not a believer of god. I hope i'm making sense here.
First of all, spirituality does not deal in absolutes. Organized religion does. Spirituality is more free then science if you think about it. Because science is bogged down by various universal laws, spirtuality is not.
Religion based it's knowledge off the universe too, but also spirituality. See, the thing is, you think that believing in science means you can't believe in God or that believing in God means you can't believe in science. Both CAN go hand in hand. The problem is that you ironically, believe too much what the organized religions say.
Random chaos and interaction between matter and time could explain all that. It's a bit hard to study the inside of black holes though, but all we know is matter gets sucked in. Where does it go? Is it possible that all matter will eventually get sucked into black holes and return to a earlier point in time?
I see....but it still confuses me because how did the black hole and time get there? I'm not saying it to disaprove of your theory. I ask this for everyone and even fellow God beleivers.
Okay that seems reasonable I supose and not really anymore 'far fetched' than the big bang. At least you come up with your own ideas and not just taking for granted what your religion teaches you.
Indeed. Thank you.
But if god is really this powerful a being, then whats the purpose of the universe? I can never think of a purpose. If he is that powerful, the outcome of his own actions he could see into, so I would rule out experiement. Anything he does he is going to know the outcome of. Yet when you think about it in a time sense the universe will not last forever so what he has done is temporary. If he wanted to create a civilization, then why have a inevitable end? And whats the ultimate purpose of creating one. Why does the universe look naturally created and totally random, with no evidence of organised creation. |
The purpose is to prepare us for the next existance we're going to go through. I also don't believe that he is omnipotent when it comes to time. Well...not exactly. In the words of Yoda "Always in motion the future is."
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Puck
The Texan
Joined: 05 Jan 2004
Posts: 5596
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| Thu Jun 15, 2006 2:01 am |
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Also, about his purpose, I just wanted to insert another thought. God is love. Love must go outside itself to love others. God created us out of love, so that He could share himself with us. God's love is perfect, endures forever, and has no limits.
Just thought I would toss that in. Ciao! 
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PrankishSmart
Rear Admiral
Joined: 29 Apr 2002
Posts: 4779
Location: Hobart, Australia.
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| Thu Jun 15, 2006 6:59 am |
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^Sure enough that could explain his intentions of creating us, but whats the purpose of creating the rest of the universe? There is a LOT of the universe and when you put everything in perspective, our solar system is rather insignificant. Even all our 100+ billion or so stars in our galaxy is insignificant when you compare our galaxy to 100+ billion other galaxies in our universe. Whats the purpose of everything else?
A very strong point I would like to make (by not putting your spirtual beliefs in doubt but strengthing my maths and science part), is if we times 100 billion by 100 billion, we HAVE to have alien cultures. I have no doubt at all. Would they also believe in a god, perhaps the same god some of us believe in? Just an intresting thought to through in.
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PrankishSmart
Rear Admiral
Joined: 29 Apr 2002
Posts: 4779
Location: Hobart, Australia.
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| Thu Jun 15, 2006 7:17 am |
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| Founder wrote: | | PrankishSmart wrote: | Well my idea of black holes could account for that and together with random chaos. If something is being interacted by something else from the so called future it could account for the behaviour. Another idea is that the universe constantly collapes and expands, but that would majorly change our understanding of the universe. All we can do is speculate. Telescopes are wonderous tools, though.
into the universe itself.
Yeah, but I'm asking not just how the black whole exists and time exists. I'm saying how does it even have the capability to affect time and channel it?
Yes thats correct. Also I have yet to be surprised but would check out resources. The thing is though my level of understanding can't be put down to faith and absoulutes. I prefer to theorise and speculate from the limited (or vast depends what way you look at it) data we have of the universe. What data does religion base it's beliefs off? Thats why i'm not a believer of god. I hope i'm making sense here.
First of all, spirituality does not deal in absolutes. Organized religion does. Spirituality is more free then science if you think about it. Because science is bogged down by various universal laws, spirtuality is not.
Religion based it's knowledge off the universe too, but also spirituality. See, the thing is, you think that believing in science means you can't believe in God or that believing in God means you can't believe in science. Both CAN go hand in hand. The problem is that you ironically, believe too much what the organized religions say.
Random chaos and interaction between matter and time could explain all that. It's a bit hard to study the inside of black holes though, but all we know is matter gets sucked in. Where does it go? Is it possible that all matter will eventually get sucked into black holes and return to a earlier point in time?
I see....but it still confuses me because how did the black hole and time get there? I'm not saying it to disaprove of your theory. I ask this for everyone and even fellow God beleivers.
Okay that seems reasonable I supose and not really anymore 'far fetched' than the big bang. At least you come up with your own ideas and not just taking for granted what your religion teaches you.
Indeed. Thank you.
But if god is really this powerful a being, then whats the purpose of the universe? I can never think of a purpose. If he is that powerful, the outcome of his own actions he could see into, so I would rule out experiement. Anything he does he is going to know the outcome of. Yet when you think about it in a time sense the universe will not last forever so what he has done is temporary. If he wanted to create a civilization, then why have a inevitable end? And whats the ultimate purpose of creating one. Why does the universe look naturally created and totally random, with no evidence of organised creation. |
The purpose is to prepare us for the next existance we're going to go through. I also don't believe that he is omnipotent when it comes to time. Well...not exactly. In the words of Yoda "Always in motion the future is." |
Intresting thoughtful responses  .. I'll try and simplyfy my response,
black holes are something i'm still thinking about. I don't know how they would control time or matter although in the terms of random chaos thats not absoulutely relevant. Of course the catalyst is still instresting and I know i'm short of answers and not at a strong point to argue against other beliefs however my theory of this is still in the works. I think there is a lot more to random chaos than what we think and the areas which we can't study we don't know enough about.
Second point I understand what your saying there, except science is not really all that bogged down unless you stick to the laws of physics. I think when thinking about the creation of the universe we need to think outside the laws of physics, but we don't need to step outside the area of science and math to do that.
Third is I really don't know i'm sorry. I can't provide a stronger debate but then again the side of god belief is no stronger. Their all theorys. Maybe someday I will write a white paper of my own thoughts on the universe creation, I have always thought a scientific challenge a, well, challenge.
Fourth, I understand what you say there and have observed too much bad part of religion to comment otherwise.
Fifth, I have questions you might be intrested in seeing one post before this one. I don't quite see it like you.
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PrankishSmart
Rear Admiral
Joined: 29 Apr 2002
Posts: 4779
Location: Hobart, Australia.
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belanna_rules210
Lieutenant
Joined: 07 Sep 2004
Posts: 143
Location: kentufick, texas
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| Sun Aug 06, 2006 9:35 am |
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okay this is gonna sound wierd but i am currently undecided. i was forced into christianity as a child and told what to believe so now i am trying to find what i believe without other's influence. i still do not enjoy church cause i remember being pinched and whipped for even looking away from the pastor or fidgeting, which kinda ruined my taste for church. i don't know, maybe i will get over that eventually.
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