| Should Mel Gibson be forgiven? |
| Yes, he should, and I have forgiven him. |
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71% |
[ 10 ] |
| Yes, he should, but I'm not going to forgive him myself. |
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7% |
[ 1 ] |
| No, he shouldn't. |
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14% |
[ 2 ] |
| I am unsure. |
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7% |
[ 1 ] |
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| Total Votes : 14 |
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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 Tue Aug 01, 2006 2:32 pm Mel Gibson Admits to Making Anti-Semitic Remarks |
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| Quote: | Mel Gibson Admits to Making Anti-Semitic Remarks, Asks for Help
LOS ANGELES � Mel Gibson has admitted to making anti-Semitic remarks during his drunken driving arrest and has asked members of the Jewish community to help him recover from his alcohol addiction.
Read more at FoxNews.com. |
I don't know about you, but I'm inclined to believe him here. I think he's sincere in his apology and don't think he's anti-semetic. I also think that he should be forgiven, and have forgiven him myself.
I am, obviously, a strong supporter of Israel, one of my best friends is Jewish, and my favorite teacher last year and no doubt this coming year is Jewish. I have every reason to be offended, and I was, but I forgive him and believe him to be sincere. But do you?
Last edited by Republican_Man on Tue Aug 01, 2006 2:44 pm; edited 1 time in total
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant
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| Tue Aug 01, 2006 2:40 pm |
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Oh my....
I already know a group of people that will take advantage of this. When Passion of the Christ came out, people accused him of being anti-semitic.
BTW? I read the article and he didn't really say anything anti-semitic. He said something about Israel causing a lot of trouble in the middle east and asked a deputy "Are you Jewish?" Being anti-Israel is not anti-semitic anymore than being anti-Nazi means you hate white people.
As for what happened, he apologized and admitted that he has a problem with alchohal. The man said he was sorry. What more do people want?
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Tue Aug 01, 2006 2:42 pm |
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I don't know. His career to be crushed?
And actually he said that "The Jews (not Israel) are responsible for all the wars in the world." But yes, he has apologized and admitted his wrongdoing. He should be forgiven.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant
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| Tue Aug 01, 2006 2:44 pm |
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Oh the article I read said Israel. He mentioned Israel SOMWHERE I think...
And you're right. People will take advantage of this and try to ruin his career.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Tue Aug 01, 2006 2:45 pm |
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Nope, that article was wrong. He didn't mention Israel anywhere.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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teya
Commander
Joined: 02 Feb 2005
Posts: 423
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| Tue Aug 01, 2006 2:54 pm Re: Mel Gibson Admits to Making Anti-Semitic Remarks |
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| Republican_Man wrote: | | I don't know about you, but I'm inclined to believe him here. I think he's sincere in his apology and don't think he's anti-semetic. I also think that he should be forgiven, and have forgiven him myself. |
Pardon me, but since you're not Jewish, he's not asking your forgiveness. Although I'm sure he appreciates it, anyway. 
The statement rings true to me--or maybe I just want to believe him. Even when many I know were claiming (sight unseen) that the Passion was an anti-Semitic film, I was defending Mel. (For the record, I saw it, did *not* think it was anti-Semitic, and it is one of my favorite films of all time). Even when he was forced to acknowledge his father's comments, and many were saying "like father, like son," I was defending Mel.
So, I really do want to believe that he wants to recover. But, thing is--and I think Mel acknowledges this in his statement when he says, "I am in the process of understanding where those vicious words came from during that drunken display"--alcohol doesn't make brand-new thoughts spring into one's brain. It simply removes the normal social inhibitions we have against articulating thoughts we have.
So, yes, I do think Mel's an anti-Semite. I hope he's sincere about trying to change that mindset.
So, this Jew will wait and see what comes out of it. I'm less inclined to forgive now, but yanno, once bitten, twice shy.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Tue Aug 01, 2006 2:59 pm |
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I think everyone--Jewish, Christian, Muslim, Hundu (but especially Jewish)--has the right to forgive him.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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teya
Commander
Joined: 02 Feb 2005
Posts: 423
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| Tue Aug 01, 2006 3:09 pm |
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| Republican_Man wrote: | | I think everyone--Jewish, Christian, Muslim, Hundu (but especially Jewish)--has the right to forgive him. |
Oh, sure, you can.
But in his statement--which is linked to on the Fox News site--he specifically asks for Jewish forgiveness.
And I'll ask you to forgive me if I'm not exactly jumping up and down saying, "oh, poor Mel, so misunderstood, he didn't really mean it," because, like I said, I've been down this road before.
Honestly, I think that it shows that it's harder than we think to get rid of prejudices we were raised with. Mel's dad is a known anti-Semite. He was raised with this mindset. It's not so easy to stop hating when you're raised to believe in someone as the enemy.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Tue Aug 01, 2006 3:14 pm |
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Oh, no, I understand. You have every right not to forgive him, and I can understand if you don't. You do raise a good point, though. I'm not so sure that he's anti-semetic but that he just has some loose anti-semitism within him that was instilled in him as a boy and he hasn't quite been able to get rid of.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Jeff Miller
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 22 Nov 2001
Posts: 23947
Location: Mental Ward for the Mentaly Unstable 6th floor, Saint John's 1615 Delaware Longview Washington 98632
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| Tue Aug 01, 2006 5:44 pm |
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| Republican_Man wrote: | | I think everyone--Jewish, Christian, Muslim, Hundu (but especially Jewish)--has the right to forgive him. |
What about us Athiest? j/k I personally don't have a problem with him I like most of his movies. Mainly the ones where he blows crap up.
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Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant
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| Tue Aug 01, 2006 5:50 pm |
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I agree with Teya and RM that his remarks didn't come from nowhere. It is either from having it drilled into him in his childhood or he simply believes that. I don't know the answer, but I do think he is sincere in saying that he is sorry for what he has said.
He made a mistake, although, this one is really gonna kill him in the end.
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Lord Borg
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 27 May 2003
Posts: 11214
Location: Vulcan Capital City, Vulcan
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| Tue Aug 01, 2006 5:53 pm |
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Yeah, he may have had those thoughts, but we all have hidden thoughts and secrets thats what makes us HUMAN. There's a differnce of having those thoughts and truly, being what people say he is.
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Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant
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| Tue Aug 01, 2006 5:58 pm |
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| Lord Borg wrote: | | Yeah, he may have had those thoughts, but we all have hidden thoughts and secrets thats what makes us HUMAN. There's a differnce of having those thoughts and truly, being what people say he is. |
EXACTLY.
Most people don't want to admit it, but we all have thoughts that the "mainstream" would find...disturbing, discpecable, or wrong. I'm not excusing his thoughts, because well, he is wrong. Jews are not the cause of all the wars or whatever it was he said.
I also think that this goes deeper because of his family.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Tue Aug 01, 2006 6:05 pm |
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I think it's one of those subconcious things that you almost never release, just in his drunken state he happened to let it out, y'know?
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Fri Aug 04, 2006 2:00 pm |
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| Quote: | Mel Gibson Has Israeli Bodyguard
Mel Gibson may have a problem with Jews � they�re responsible for all the wars, they�ve inflated the number of dead in the Holocaust, etc.
But Gibson likes one Jewish person a lot. His personal bodyguard for more than a decade turns out to be an Israeli.
Read more at FoxNews.com. |
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Lord Borg
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 27 May 2003
Posts: 11214
Location: Vulcan Capital City, Vulcan
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| Fri Aug 04, 2006 4:21 pm |
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I think that pretty much shows they are the comments of someone drunk of his mind.
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teya
Commander
Joined: 02 Feb 2005
Posts: 423
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| Fri Aug 04, 2006 4:48 pm |
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Funny, my ex-husband couldn't stand Jews. I found this out after we married, when he went off on a diatribe against my aunt, describing her as a typical JAP, money-hungry, conniving...
When I asked him why on earth he'd married me--given my background--he said, "You're different."
Just because someone associates with Jews, doesn't necessarily mean that they are not prejudiced against them. It's like the racist who uses the N-word routinely, then protests being called a racist because, "some of my best friends are black."
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Leo Wyatt
Sweetest Angel
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Location: Investigating A Crime Scene. What did Quark do this time?
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| Sun Aug 20, 2006 8:29 am |
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I don't hold no grudges against him. I forgive him cause life is too short to be unforgiving to everyone.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Sun Aug 20, 2006 1:12 pm |
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His lawyer pleaded "no contest" to the drunk driving charges the other day. He was ordered 3 years probation, to enter rehab immediately, and do a public service announcement. Sounds good to me.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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webtaz99
Commodore
Joined: 13 Nov 2003
Posts: 1229
Location: The Other Side
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| Wed Sep 06, 2006 9:20 am |
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So what if he IS "anti-Semitic"? People have the right to their own beliefs. It's not something he needs to be "forgiven" for.
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TrekkieMage
Office Junkie
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| Wed Sep 06, 2006 10:18 am |
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^ But for a high profile celebrity (or politician, or high profile anyone) to make particularly obsene, rude, and tasteless slurs to a police officer while they're being arrested for drunk driving?
That steps over a boundery - right to one's beliefs is one thing, right to insult and verbally humiliate a group of people and an officer of the law is another.
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teya
Commander
Joined: 02 Feb 2005
Posts: 423
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| Wed Sep 06, 2006 11:57 am |
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| webtaz99 wrote: | | So what if he IS "anti-Semitic"? People have the right to their own beliefs. It's not something he needs to be "forgiven" for. |
Ah, so when Mr. Gibson denigrates me, I'm just supposed to suck it up and say, "thanks, dude!"
Sorry. It is something that every Jew needs to decide *if* they're going to forgive him or not.
And by "forgive," I mean--will I spend any more money on his films?
Right now, the answer is no. No reason to help fill his pockets, when is plenty of entertainment being produced by people who don't blame me for all the ills of the world.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
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| Wed Sep 06, 2006 5:40 pm |
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He was drunk. I've never been drunk, or ever drank, for that matter, but from what I understand of it, people often say things they don't mean when they're drunk, and this may very well have been one of those incidents. Doesn't mean there's anything hidden deep inside him.
What I mean is, say you're a husband and you're at a party with your wife. You're a good man and a good husband, but you end up getting drunk at the party. Something happens and you get mad at your wife, saying insane things out of unfeddered anger--things that you cannot really control in your drunken state. Say you slap her too.
The next day, though, you apologize to your wife, insisting that you didn't mean what you said, and she accepts the apology. Does that mean that the feelings you expressed the night before, while drunk, are actually those you really feel? No, it doesn't. This, it seems, was one of those incidents.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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teya
Commander
Joined: 02 Feb 2005
Posts: 423
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| Wed Sep 06, 2006 5:48 pm |
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| Republican_Man wrote: | | He was drunk. I've never been drunk, or ever drank, for that matter, but from what I understand of it, people often say things they don't mean when they're drunk, and this may very well have been one of those incidents. Doesn't mean there's anything hidden deep inside him. |
Alcohol releases inhibitions, meaning we say things we think that normally good manners would keep us from saying. It doesn't create a new personality.
| Quote: | | What I mean is, say you're a husband and you're at a party with your wife. You're a good man and a good husband, but you end up getting drunk at the party. Something happens and you get mad at your wife, saying insane things out of unfeddered anger--things that you cannot really control in your drunken state. Say you slap her too. |
Oooh, cool! Let's find a way to excuse spousal abuse.
Say you kill her, while you're at it. Should you be forgiven and let off the hook? Obviously not.
Think about this scenario a little bit more. If that were your sister's husband who slapped her while drunk, would you forgive him?
Look, I don't care if you folks forgive Mel or not. I am just giving you the perspective of someone from the community he villified. I see absolutely no reason at this point in time to support the man with my hard-earned money, when he has made it crystal clear what he thinks about me and my family.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Wed Sep 06, 2006 5:56 pm |
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| teya wrote: | | Republican_Man wrote: | | He was drunk. I've never been drunk, or ever drank, for that matter, but from what I understand of it, people often say things they don't mean when they're drunk, and this may very well have been one of those incidents. Doesn't mean there's anything hidden deep inside him. |
Alcohol releases inhibitions, meaning we say things we think that normally good manners would keep us from saying. It doesn't create a new personality.
| Quote: | | What I mean is, say you're a husband and you're at a party with your wife. You're a good man and a good husband, but you end up getting drunk at the party. Something happens and you get mad at your wife, saying insane things out of unfeddered anger--things that you cannot really control in your drunken state. Say you slap her too. |
Oooh, cool! Let's find a way to excuse spousal abuse.
Say you kill her, while you're at it. Should you be forgiven and let off the hook? Obviously not.
Think about this scenario a little bit more. If that were your sister's husband who slapped her while drunk, would you forgive him?
Look, I don't care if you folks forgive Mel or not. I am just giving you the perspective of someone from the community he villified. I see absolutely no reason at this point in time to support the man with my hard-earned money, when he has made it crystal clear what he thinks about me and my family. |
Okay, fine. Spin it to make it seem as though I'm excusing spousal abuse, because Goddamnit, that is something I would never do.
Killing is going to far. That really needs punishment. And maybe the slapping goes too far as well. That wasn't a supportive argument, so for my purposes, ignore that.
Now, under my above stated purposes, if she were verbally mistreated in a drunken rant, I'd be hard-pressed to forgive him, and I might not immediately, but I think I might do it in the end.
My point is that when you're drunk you often things you really don't mean, and if you're an honest, good person and sincerely offer and ask for the acceptance of an apology afterwards, you should be forgiven. Physical stuff is a bit far, which is why I don't like the analogy I made, but when it comes to verbal things, I think that should be taken into consideration. Mel Gibson deserves an acceptance of his apology.
But if you don't want to, fine. You're wrong (IMO), but you can do it, and clearly you do. These rhetorical arguments aren't going to change anyone's mind, though, so yeah. I'll see his new movie whenever it comes out.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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