| S31-Good or Evil? |
| Yes-They ARE needed |
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40% |
[ 4 ] |
| No-Of course not. Starfleet crews do the job well |
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20% |
[ 2 ] |
| Perhaps a combination of both? |
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40% |
[ 4 ] |
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| Total Votes : 10 |
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Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant
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 Thu Jun 29, 2006 2:06 am S31-A neccessary evil?(A hidden look into S31) |
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Now, I'm a firm opponent of S31 and do think they are...evil. I guess one could say that they are bad guys working for good guys, if that makes sense. While their motives are good, there duplicit actions most certainly are not. The problem with them is that there is no accountability. Yet, I wonder if the Federation would have survived this long without them? They have obviously been around since the beginning, as established by ENT. TOS and TNG had rather idealistic Federation, one that had virtually no problems. Humanity only cared about each other.
| Picard wrote: | | "The acquisition of wealth is no longer the driving force in our lives. We wish to better ourselves and the rest of humanity." |
Even Sisko commented on how Earth is a flourishing paradise.
| Sisko wrote: | | "On Earth, there is no poverty, no crime, no war. You look out the window of Starfleet Headquarters and you see Paradise. |
Earth is this perfect place that probably feels like it can never be harmed, until the Dominion and Xindi that is. With ideals like that, wouldn't it be difficult to exist and thrive in the Star Trek galaxy? I think Sloan put S31's usefullness best when he said...
| Sloan wrote: | | "The Federation needs men like you, doctor. Men of conscience. Men of principle. Men who can sleep at night... You're also the reason Section Thirty-One exists -- someone has to protect men like you from a universe that doesn't share your sense of right and wrong." |
Does S31 protect the idealistic and naive Federation from harm? Are they truly needed and do the ends justify the means of their actions? The Federation seems too...stupid to exist without them as much as I hate to admit it.
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Leo Wyatt
Sweetest Angel
Joined: 25 Feb 2004
Posts: 19045
Location: Investigating A Crime Scene. What did Quark do this time?
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| Thu Jun 29, 2006 7:51 am |
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I never cared too much for S31 because they go over board with things. They intergate like if they rule the Federation in my opinion. I don't think they go about things the right way. I remember an episode in DS9 where one S31 was just out to get Bashir, to me he was. I might be wrong.
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Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant
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| Thu Jun 29, 2006 7:23 pm |
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I can't believe that no one else posted in this topic. So much for a thought provoking topic...
Thanks for posting Leo Wyatt 
Yeah, S31 did have a "Lord over you" kind of attitude. I guess it comes with the territory. They simply believe themselves to be superior for the difficult tasks that they do.
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Lord Borg
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 27 May 2003
Posts: 11214
Location: Vulcan Capital City, Vulcan
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| Thu Jun 29, 2006 7:25 pm |
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I cannot belive I forgot to post here!
Yeah, they definitly have a "I'm better then you, and can do what ever I want to you" additude.
Their intentions are noble, they go about it the wrong way.
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Voyager2004
Commodore
Joined: 13 Apr 2004
Posts: 2070
Location: Silverdale, WA
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| Thu Jun 29, 2006 9:55 pm |
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| Leo Wyatt wrote: | | they go over board with things. |
That's the whole point of them though...I like them. I mean, I like them in the sense that their intentions definitely are noble, but their means of obtaining their goals are wrong. But that's what makes it good. Like Founder, I do like the darker side of Trek. We just never see it. And S31 gives Trek that little gray area to play around with. I like it.
I didn't forget to post in here...I was waiting for more responses to play off of, and I must admit, for coming in almost 24 hours after this was first created I'm surprised there's not more posts in here...lol...
-------signature-------
"We all make our own Hell, Mr. Lessing. I hope you enjoy yours."
Kathryn Janeway - Equinox Pt 2
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Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant
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| Thu Jun 29, 2006 10:29 pm |
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Do you wish there had been an agent on Voyager? *Directed at Voyager2004*
There was a book about it, but I mean on the show...
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Lord Borg
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 27 May 2003
Posts: 11214
Location: Vulcan Capital City, Vulcan
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| Thu Jun 29, 2006 10:55 pm |
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That would have been cool, but the person would have just been a tool to Janeway when she wanted to use him/her
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Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant
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| Thu Jun 29, 2006 11:08 pm |
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| Lord Borg wrote: | | That would have been cool, but the person would have just been a tool to Janeway when she wanted to use him/her |
Well I don't think the person would ever reveal themselves...
Not until the episode where he/she died.
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Lord Borg
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 27 May 2003
Posts: 11214
Location: Vulcan Capital City, Vulcan
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| Thu Jun 29, 2006 11:10 pm |
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Yeah, well... It being VOY, they would have been discovered SOMEHOW, 15 deck ship, no other human for 60 odd years? They would have been discovered. Given a lecter by Janeway, only for her to get hypicritical five scense later.
But in anycase, S31, has good intentions, they just.... do it wrong.
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Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant
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| Thu Jun 29, 2006 11:12 pm |
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My question is: Would the Federation have survived that long without S31?
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Lord Borg
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 27 May 2003
Posts: 11214
Location: Vulcan Capital City, Vulcan
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| Thu Jun 29, 2006 11:13 pm |
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Maybe... in some form or another, it certainly wasn't S31 that won the dominion war, if that's the sort of thing you mean.
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Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant
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| Thu Jun 29, 2006 11:15 pm |
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No, I don't mean the war itself. I mean the entirety of the history of the Federation. From it's founding to...current time. Could the Federation have lasted this long without them? Was it them or rather the valient crews (ENT,TOS,TNG,DS9,VOY,ETC) that TRULY saved the Federation?
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Lord Borg
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 27 May 2003
Posts: 11214
Location: Vulcan Capital City, Vulcan
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| Thu Jun 29, 2006 11:20 pm |
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That's a good question, More or less I think they could have, because in many episodes that S31 was in who ultimatly saved the day? A non agent 
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Voyager2004
Commodore
Joined: 13 Apr 2004
Posts: 2070
Location: Silverdale, WA
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| Fri Jun 30, 2006 1:12 am |
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| Founder wrote: | Do you wish there had been an agent on Voyager? *Directed at Voyager2004*
There was a book about it, but I mean on the show... |
Yes. Good book. And since DS9 had a couple of S31 episodes, I think it would have been a good episode, ONLY if properly written, of course. I think they could have had a good episode.
| Founder wrote: | | Lord Borg wrote: | | That would have been cool, but the person would have just been a tool to Janeway when she wanted to use him/her |
Well I don't think the person would ever reveal themselves...
Not until the episode where he/she died. |
Of course they wouldn't reveal their identity. And it's possible that their identity might not even be learned until AFTER they had died. Kind of like Voyager's S31 book. The girl died much earlier, but it wasn't until much later that they learned her identity. But for an actual EPISODE, then I'd say that the person wouldn't die until the actual episode...
-------signature-------
"We all make our own Hell, Mr. Lessing. I hope you enjoy yours."
Kathryn Janeway - Equinox Pt 2
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MakeItSo
Commander
Joined: 05 Jan 2006
Posts: 406
Location: Somewhere in California
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| Sat Jul 29, 2006 3:17 pm |
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I think the whole Section 31 thing is very interesting for Star Trek. And I read the Voyager book about it. I think it would have been cool to add into the series. But I think they wanted to keep that mainly with DS9 when the TV series were going. However, I don't know if the Federation would have been better off without them or not, meaning if they would have survived that long or not. I just don't like the idea, that within Starfleet, there's an organization that goes against everything Starfleet stands for. It reminds me of governments that think they're above the law. Because they take a lot of things and react to them in secret extreme ways. I'd rather believe that the Federation got along fine with just all the crews, and not Section 31. Although I do enjoy the plots with Section 31.
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lifeguide
Lieutenant, Junior Grade
Joined: 27 Nov 2007
Posts: 132
Location: AUSTRALIA
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| Tue Dec 04, 2007 6:39 pm |
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I think this is a very contemporary question.
I do not live in the United States but I wonder how people who do like the fact that the government can see what books you have been reading from the library or what you have ben saying in private emails.
I think it is a scenario which people all around the world since human origins and forever more will grapple with, do you want to have a peaceful and harmonious community at any costs or do you indeed want the law and military to follow the accepted behavioural traits.
Unfortunately at our current period in history you can not have it both ways.
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