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IntrepidIsMe
Pimp Handed
Joined: 14 Jun 2002
Posts: 13057
Location: New York
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 Mon Jun 19, 2006 4:36 pm |
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Actually, she doesn't even attribute anything to Christianity (in the article), but instead to God, and Jesus. There are quite a few people who don't assosiate either directly with Christianity. Being a Christian means you're generally part of an organization, and there are many who believe that both are divine, yet don't worship as Christians. Are we all following that this really has nothing to do with Christianity, nor an "attack" on it? Even if she was booed for saying "I attribute my success to not being Christian," that isn't denying God, either. Much less the Christian idea of God.
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"Nelly, I am Heathcliff! He's always, always in my mind: not as a pleasure, any more than I am always a pleasure to myself, but as my own being."
-Wuthering Heights
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ILoveHarry
Admiral
Joined: 14 Jan 2004
Posts: 7909
Location: Houston
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| Mon Jun 19, 2006 4:39 pm |
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OK. In that case, let me rephrase. If she of attributed her success to not beliving in God, she, in all likelyhood would have been allowed to continue with her speech.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Mon Jun 19, 2006 4:43 pm |
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| ILoveHarry wrote: | | OK. In that case, let me rephrase. If she of attributed her success to not beliving in God, she, in all likelyhood would have been allowed to continue with her speech. |
This is true. This is definitely true. Good point.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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ILoveHarry
Admiral
Joined: 14 Jan 2004
Posts: 7909
Location: Houston
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| Mon Jun 19, 2006 4:57 pm |
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Thanks, RM!! It's not often we see eye to eye. 
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Link, the Hero of Time
Vice Admiral
Joined: 15 Sep 2001
Posts: 5581
Location: Kokori Forest, Hyrule
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| Mon Jun 19, 2006 7:03 pm |
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Do either of you have solid proof that that would have been the case, or is this a wild assumption?
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Mon Jun 19, 2006 7:04 pm |
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No, it's a logical conclusion, and you know it.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Link, the Hero of Time
Vice Admiral
Joined: 15 Sep 2001
Posts: 5581
Location: Kokori Forest, Hyrule
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| Mon Jun 19, 2006 7:07 pm |
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| Republican_Man wrote: | | No, it's a logical conclusion, and you know it. |
No, it would be a logical conclusion if you had other instances where that was the case to back you up. What was said was a wild assumption and generalization.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Mon Jun 19, 2006 7:14 pm |
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It's a viable, logical conclusion derriving from the present trend of anti-Christianism and religion within the education system and other locations. Plus, the ACLU would be charging down the school's doors if the kid was cut off for doing that. It's only a wild assumption to you because you are quite a secularist guy, and it's difficult to secularists to take a clean look at the present trend and realize the attack on Christianity across the country. This is just another battlefield for the Culture War and the drive to shove Christianity out of our public schools, a drive which is being pushed more and more throughout the country.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Link, the Hero of Time
Vice Admiral
Joined: 15 Sep 2001
Posts: 5581
Location: Kokori Forest, Hyrule
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| Mon Jun 19, 2006 8:38 pm |
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| Republican_Man wrote: | | It's a viable, logical conclusion derriving from the present trend of anti-Christianism and religion within the education system and other locations. |
No, it's an assumption because you have no analytical data to back it up. Only speculation and hypotheses with no way to test it, therefore invalidating your argument.
Anyway it doesn't matter because the girl was told not to do it, yet she went and did it anyway. She went against school policy and was punished for it.
| Republican_Man wrote: | | It's only a wild assumption to you because you are quite a secularist guy, and it's difficult to secularists to take a clean look at the present trend and realize the attack on Christianity across the country. |
As I have asked you before, do not generalize about me ever again. You do not know me therefore you have no right to talk about me like you do.
| Republican_Man wrote: | | This is just another battlefield for the Culture War and the drive to shove Christianity out of our public schools, a drive which is being pushed more and more throughout the country. |
Religion does not belong in school. It is a place of learning, not worship. We have churches to worship in, or private religious institutions that allow worship in school.
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"Dissent is the highest form of patriotism." President Thomas Jefferson
"A man's respect for law and order exists in precise relationship to the size of his paycheck." Adam Clayton Powell Jr.
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borgslayer
Rear Admiral
Joined: 27 Aug 2003
Posts: 2646
Location: Las Vegas
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| Mon Jun 19, 2006 8:54 pm |
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It's true that Religion is not a part of school because of separation of church and state. However a person have a right to say "God" in a speech while in school. Saying God does not mean your praying . as long no one prays you have the right to talk about God in school.
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Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant
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| Mon Jun 19, 2006 9:14 pm |
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| Link, the Hero of Time wrote: | | Religion does not belong in school. It is a place of learning, not worship. We have churches to worship in, or private religious institutions that allow worship in school. |
Private schools tend to disagree with you on that. 
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Puck
The Texan
Joined: 05 Jan 2004
Posts: 5596
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| Mon Jun 19, 2006 11:42 pm |
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I am happy for this girl. I hope she continues to thank God and acknowledge him publicly throughout her life.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Mon Jun 19, 2006 11:45 pm |
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Agreed. She's really a great girl, actually. I've heard her on the radio and seen her on the news today. Her spirituality really is quite inspiring in and of itself.
-------signature-------
"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Lord Borg
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 27 May 2003
Posts: 11214
Location: Vulcan Capital City, Vulcan
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| Tue Jun 20, 2006 12:30 am |
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I don't know exactly what was said, or anything. Whether she was wrong or not, to do that and pubicly humiliate her was wrong.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Tue Jun 20, 2006 12:33 am |
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Oh, and yeah. Did you know that the ACLU was there supporting the school's action too? Really tells you something about the situation... 
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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LightningBoy
Commodore
Joined: 09 Mar 2003
Posts: 1446
Location: Minnesota, U.S.A.
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| Tue Jun 20, 2006 11:29 am |
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| Link, the Hero of Time wrote: | | Religion does not belong in school. It is a place of learning, not worship. We have churches to worship in, or private religious institutions that allow worship in school. |
Wow... How closed minded you are.
So where do kids learn about Christianity, Islam, and Judaism? Should they just learn about other religions through stereotypes on TV and on the street? Religion has everything to do with education, and it should be taught more, maybe then children would have an understanding of the world, and its peoples.
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Link, the Hero of Time
Vice Admiral
Joined: 15 Sep 2001
Posts: 5581
Location: Kokori Forest, Hyrule
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| Tue Jun 20, 2006 8:44 pm |
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| LightningBoy wrote: |
Wow... How closed minded you are.
So where do kids learn about Christianity, Islam, and Judaism? Should they just learn about other religions through stereotypes on TV and on the street? Religion has everything to do with education, and it should be taught more, maybe then children would have an understanding of the world, and its peoples. |
Hello pot, meet kettle, you seem to have a lot in common.
If you want to TEACH the religions in schools, that's fine. Teach all of them. And teach them the truth, that means teaching both the good and bad.
If you want to PRACTICE religion in school, no, find a church or go to a private school.
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Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant
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| Tue Jun 20, 2006 9:26 pm |
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| Link, the Hero of Time wrote: | | LightningBoy wrote: |
Wow... How closed minded you are.
So where do kids learn about Christianity, Islam, and Judaism? Should they just learn about other religions through stereotypes on TV and on the street? Religion has everything to do with education, and it should be taught more, maybe then children would have an understanding of the world, and its peoples. |
Hello pot, meet kettle, you seem to have a lot in common.
If you want to TEACH the religions in schools, that's fine. Teach all of them. And teach them the truth, that means teaching both the good and bad.
If you want to PRACTICE religion in school, no, find a church or go to a private school. |
You're putting words in his mouth. He was simply saying that Religion should be taught in school, not hidden. Understanding leads to peace. He didn' say we should only show the "good" side and not the "bad". He also didn't say we should practice it in school, but TEACH it. Did the girl "practice it" in her speech? Nope.
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Link, the Hero of Time
Vice Admiral
Joined: 15 Sep 2001
Posts: 5581
Location: Kokori Forest, Hyrule
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| Tue Jun 20, 2006 10:13 pm |
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| Founder wrote: | | Did the girl "practice it" in her speech? Nope. |
No, she went against school policy even after being warned. She got what she deserved.
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Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant
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| Tue Jun 20, 2006 10:15 pm |
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| Link, the Hero of Time wrote: | | Founder wrote: | | Did the girl "practice it" in her speech? Nope. |
No, she went against school policy even after being warned. She got what she deserved. |
Hhmmm way to dodge everything else I said.
BTW? You don't have to give me the bad attitude. I didn't say that what happened to her was wrong. In fact, I believe they were right in doing so, even though they were completely rude about it.
"As I have asked you before, do not generalize about me ever again. You do not know me therefore you have no right to talk about me like you do."
Take your own advice.
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PrankishSmart
Rear Admiral
Joined: 29 Apr 2002
Posts: 4779
Location: Hobart, Australia.
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| Wed Jun 21, 2006 6:52 am |
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It's hardly surprising that public schools would have a problem with religion. It's not a academic study and if anything the facts about religion be taught in history class, nothing more. Someone who wants more than that should be in a private school or one more suited to their needs. I don't see the problem.
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LightningBoy
Commodore
Joined: 09 Mar 2003
Posts: 1446
Location: Minnesota, U.S.A.
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| Wed Jun 21, 2006 10:47 am |
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If this girl were Muslim, and she praised Allah in her speech, would it be any sort of problem? No way!
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Theresa
Lux Mihi Deus
Joined: 17 Jun 2001
Posts: 27256
Location: United States of America
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| Wed Jun 21, 2006 4:46 pm |
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I realize that your nice little conversation was last night, guys, but I'll still say it. Knock off the personal attacks, or take a vacation. That easy.
I don't think the girls speech should have been allowed to be censored in the first place. Was she wrong to deviate from what had passed the censors? Probably. But. I don't condemn her for it.
The seperation of church and state comments are a bit far fetched, too. Talking about ones own experiences, being thankful to whomever, is not trying to indoctrinate anyone, nor is it "pushing your religion".
You don't get into trouble for saying "goddamnit", so why should you try to stop someone from saying "thank God"? I'm amazed the duplicity can't be seen.
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Some of us fall by the wayside
And some of us soar to the stars
And some of us sail through our troubles
And some have to live with our scars
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Lord Borg
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 27 May 2003
Posts: 11214
Location: Vulcan Capital City, Vulcan
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| Wed Jun 21, 2006 8:49 pm |
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Good point. Maybe she should have not gone though with her orgional speech. But it is interesting how one can say "goddamn it" and get less attention then if they said "I thank God every day for all my successes"
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Wed Jun 21, 2006 10:04 pm |
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They knew she was giving the original speech from the getgo, from what I recall of the other night. They had a copy of it with them, hence the point at which they ended the speech.
-------signature-------
"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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