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CJ Cregg
Commodore
Joined: 05 Oct 2002
Posts: 1254
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 Sun May 28, 2006 2:10 pm Minuteman Group Begins Building Border Fence |
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| Quote: | Minuteman Group Begins Building Border Fence
Minuteman border watch volunteers began putting up new fencing Saturday on a cattle ranch along the southeastern Arizona border with Mexico, intent on building impediments to a flood of illegal immigration until the federal government takes up the task.
Read the Story at FoxNews.com |
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LightningBoy
Commodore
Joined: 09 Mar 2003
Posts: 1446
Location: Minnesota, U.S.A.
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| Sun May 28, 2006 6:19 pm |
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I would support a lot of Amnesty programs if we'd finally put a fence up; it's toobad the Minutemen's attempts are purely symbolic.
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CJ Cregg
Commodore
Joined: 05 Oct 2002
Posts: 1254
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| Sun May 28, 2006 6:22 pm |
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I'm thankful that my country has no land borders, except for Ireland but that doesn't count. Oh and the channel tunnel, which for some strange reason hundreds of people come through.
I think the US should build a wall. I see no reason not too. You have to protect your borders
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Lord Borg
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 27 May 2003
Posts: 11214
Location: Vulcan Capital City, Vulcan
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| Sun May 28, 2006 6:26 pm |
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We do indeed, but a Wall? that's a scary thought. So is that these minute men are making fences on thier own...
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Sun May 28, 2006 11:40 pm |
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Before anyone makes a judgment on this, let�s put the facts into perspective.
The area in which the Minutemen are making a fence--and rightfully so--is privately owned land. This land is a ranch, and each day the owner sees 50 to 100 illegals run across his private land.
What�s the security between him and Mexico? A fence with three lines, if you will, denoting the border line. A Fox News reporter was literally able to put his foot on the other side of that fence, as there are NO thorns on it.
At my sister�s soccer fields there is a much more defensive fence than that, one which actually has thorns on each of the three lines it has--and that�s not even facing a real threat.
So, yeah, this is an excellent thing that they�re doing. They�re helping out a private citizen with a problem that is ruining his ranch, and quite literally. It�s privately owned, and it�s helping out that citizen. Yes, it will help the US, and yes, a principal motive for them doing this is to force the US into taking solid action ( ), but in this case it�s actually being done because that citizen requested it.
You should really consider that fact before passing negative judgment on what the Minutemen are doing here.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Jeff Miller
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 22 Nov 2001
Posts: 23947
Location: Mental Ward for the Mentaly Unstable 6th floor, Saint John's 1615 Delaware Longview Washington 98632
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| Mon May 29, 2006 12:24 am |
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I say if they can't enter our country legally than they should be shot. No other choices should be given. They are no better than Terriost (SP)
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Theresa
Lux Mihi Deus
Joined: 17 Jun 2001
Posts: 27256
Location: United States of America
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| Mon May 29, 2006 12:27 am |
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That doesn't even make any sense...
As long as they are fencing their own land, or have neighbors permission, etc..., I don't see a problem with it. It's sad it's come to this, though.
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Jeff Miller
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 22 Nov 2001
Posts: 23947
Location: Mental Ward for the Mentaly Unstable 6th floor, Saint John's 1615 Delaware Longview Washington 98632
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| Mon May 29, 2006 12:29 am |
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| Theresa wrote: | That doesn't even make any sense...
As long as they are fencing their own land, or have neighbors permission, etc..., I don't see a problem with it. It's sad it's come to this, though. |
Ok, I'll say it another way. If they can't enter our country through the right means. Than Shoot them.
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Theresa
Lux Mihi Deus
Joined: 17 Jun 2001
Posts: 27256
Location: United States of America
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| Mon May 29, 2006 12:32 am |
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That's the kind of thinking that keeps one cleaning the slushie machines at the local 7/11.
People escaping from tyranny don't need to be shot at the border. What are we, East Germany?
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Jeff Miller
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 22 Nov 2001
Posts: 23947
Location: Mental Ward for the Mentaly Unstable 6th floor, Saint John's 1615 Delaware Longview Washington 98632
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| Mon May 29, 2006 12:39 am |
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There is Right ways to enter this fine country of ours and than there are wrong ways to enter it. If we let them just cross a fence and come in what does that say to the rest of the world? It tells them that we don't care for our country and the dredges of sociaty (SP) can come here and make this great place a dump. Need I remind you of when Castro emptied his prisons in the early 80's and sent them here? I'm pretty sure you would agree that, it was a good thing we sent most of them back.
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Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant
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| Mon May 29, 2006 12:42 am |
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So the wrong way pushes for murdering them?
Dredges of society? So...illegal immigrants are the dredges of society? What about the ones that come here and simply bust their butt working? What about the American born and legal dredges of society? Can we shoot them too or is it ok they screw up this country since they were born here?
You're comparing Castro sending Cuban low lives to illegals that come here to work? BAD comparison.
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Theresa
Lux Mihi Deus
Joined: 17 Jun 2001
Posts: 27256
Location: United States of America
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| Mon May 29, 2006 12:42 am |
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| Jeff Miller wrote: | | There is Right ways to enter this fine country of ours and than there are wrong ways to enter it. If we let them just cross a fence and come in what does that say to the rest of the world? It tells them that we don't care for our country and the dredges of sociaty (SP) can come here and make this great place a dump. Need I remind you of when Castro emptied his prisons in the early 80's and sent them here? I'm pretty sure you would agree that, it was a good thing we sent most of them back. |
Apples and oranges.
Basic illegals, send them back. People fleeing for their lives, help them. I'm trying to figure out how we'd sort it out using your method, though. With them all being dead...
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Jeff Miller
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 22 Nov 2001
Posts: 23947
Location: Mental Ward for the Mentaly Unstable 6th floor, Saint John's 1615 Delaware Longview Washington 98632
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| Mon May 29, 2006 12:48 am |
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| Founder wrote: | | What about the ones that come here and simply bust their butt working? |
If they aren't legal they have no rights to take jobs out of honest american hands. Have them fill out their paperwork than they can bust their butts all they want. But till they are legal stay out of our country.
| Founder wrote: | | What about the American born and legal dredges of society? Can we shoot them too or is it ok they screw up this country since they were born here? |
If they did a punnishable offense cappable of death than so be it they knew the punishment.
| Founder wrote: | | You're comparing Castro sending Cuban low lives to illegals that come here to work? BAD comparison. |
How do we know that those gate jumpers aren't as bad as those low lives from Cuba?
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Jeff Miller
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 22 Nov 2001
Posts: 23947
Location: Mental Ward for the Mentaly Unstable 6th floor, Saint John's 1615 Delaware Longview Washington 98632
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| Mon May 29, 2006 12:50 am |
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| Quote: | Apples and oranges.
Basic illegals, send them back. People fleeing for their lives, help them. I'm trying to figure out how we'd sort it out using your method, though. With them all being dead... |
Thus why I said if they can't enter legally than shoot them. I'm pretty sure if them went through the right channels to enter our country we would protect them during the process. There is no reason they should cross our boarders during the night like common rodents.[/quote]
Last edited by Jeff Miller on Mon May 29, 2006 12:53 am; edited 1 time in total
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Puck
The Texan
Joined: 05 Jan 2004
Posts: 5596
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| Mon May 29, 2006 12:53 am |
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How do we know that those gate jumpers aren't as bad as those low lives from Cuba? |
I know many of them that are not for one.
Last edited by Puck on Mon May 29, 2006 12:53 am; edited 1 time in total
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Founder
Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 12755
Location: Gamma Quadrant
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| Mon May 29, 2006 12:53 am |
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| Jeff Miller wrote: | If they aren't legal they have no rights to take jobs out of honest american hands. Have them fill out their paperwork than they can bust their butts all they want. But till they are legal stay out of our country.
"our"? Who is "our"? I don't believe you did anything for this country other then be born in it. Stop acting like you own it or speak for it, because America isn't in that bad of a position. Take jobs of honest american hands? What? What jobs do they have that honest amercans want?
If they did a punnishable offense cappable of death than so be it they knew the punishment.
That made absolutely no sense and you didn't answer my question. You dodged it. Probably because you are incapable of answering it.
How do we know that those gate jumpers aren't as bad as those low lives from Cuba? |
Because a lot of them have proven it. They crossed over and worked. Nothing more, nothing less.
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Jeff Miller
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 22 Nov 2001
Posts: 23947
Location: Mental Ward for the Mentaly Unstable 6th floor, Saint John's 1615 Delaware Longview Washington 98632
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| Mon May 29, 2006 12:55 am |
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| Puck wrote: | | Quote: |
How do we know that those gate jumpers aren't as bad as those low lives from Cuba? |
I know many of them that are not for one. |
If you know they aren't here legally convince them to become legal it won't kill them.
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Puck
The Texan
Joined: 05 Jan 2004
Posts: 5596
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| Mon May 29, 2006 12:59 am |
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| Jeff Miller wrote: | | Puck wrote: | | Quote: |
How do we know that those gate jumpers aren't as bad as those low lives from Cuba? |
I know many of them that are not for one. |
If you know they aren't here legally convince them to become legal it won't kill them. |
Chances are they will probably be deported though, and lose their job.
I really don't care personally, because in my opinion, they are Americans. They have the American Dream down. They work hard (some of them have three jobs) and persevere for what they want, instead of sitting around waiting for handouts like many people who are technically citizens do.
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Jeff Miller
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 22 Nov 2001
Posts: 23947
Location: Mental Ward for the Mentaly Unstable 6th floor, Saint John's 1615 Delaware Longview Washington 98632
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| Mon May 29, 2006 1:00 am |
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| Founder wrote: | | "our"? Who is "our"? I don't believe you did anything for this country other then be born in it. Stop acting like you own it or speak for it, because America isn't in that bad of a position. Take jobs of honest american hands? What? What jobs do they have that honest amercans want? |
Before you start assuming ask questions!. I work 40 plus hours a week that makes it my right to speak up about it. INS came in last month and rounded up a good amount of Illigals. Those people took jobs out of peoples hands who needed them.
[quote="Founder"] | Jeff Miller wrote: | | Because a lot of them have proven it. They crossed over and worked. Nothing more, nothing less. |
Proven it? How? just by saying they are good people? that doesn't prove anything all I'm asking is that they enter this country legally. It isn't that hard.
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Mon May 29, 2006 1:01 am |
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Alright, first of all, I am amazed that Jeff Miller, whom I've always known to be a committed liberal, is taking a hard-line conservative stance. But that fact that he's taking such a hard-line conservative stance.
I agree with Founder on that one, for once. Shooting them at the border isn't the answer. As a matter of fact, that's the wrong way to go. It makes us a huge tyrant, one which we should not, and cannot afford to, be.
That being said, we do need stronger border security and, as Theresa said, it's a shame that it's come to this, the need to build a fence on private land to protect private property. Really shows you just how well our government has been doing its job.
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Jeff Miller
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 22 Nov 2001
Posts: 23947
Location: Mental Ward for the Mentaly Unstable 6th floor, Saint John's 1615 Delaware Longview Washington 98632
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| Mon May 29, 2006 1:03 am |
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| Puck wrote: | | Chances are they will probably be deported though, and lose their job. |
Don't they normally have to have done something wrong to be deported?
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Puck
The Texan
Joined: 05 Jan 2004
Posts: 5596
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| Mon May 29, 2006 1:04 am |
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| Jeff Miller wrote: | | Puck wrote: | | Chances are they will probably be deported though, and lose their job. |
Don't they normally have to have done something wrong to be deported? |
Well the government would most likely tend to think that them being here illegally is enough. 
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Theresa
Lux Mihi Deus
Joined: 17 Jun 2001
Posts: 27256
Location: United States of America
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| Mon May 29, 2006 1:05 am |
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| Jeff Miller wrote: | | Quote: | Apples and oranges.
Basic illegals, send them back. People fleeing for their lives, help them. I'm trying to figure out how we'd sort it out using your method, though. With them all being dead... |
Thus why I said if they can't enter legally than shoot them. I'm pretty sure if them went through the right channels to enter our country we would protect them during the process. There is no reason they should cross our boarders during the night like common rodents. |
Welcome to the cold war. You'd have found East Germany a utopia, I do think. It does amaze me that you don't see how... incredibly inane "just shooting them" sounds.
Remember those women you liked to follow into dark alleys just for the "fun of scaring them"? Their reaction would be to run to a safe place. Just like those people. Running from a monster. (No, not a literal monster)
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And some of us sail through our troubles
And some have to live with our scars
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Republican_Man
STV's Premier Conservative
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 14823
Location: Classified
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| Mon May 29, 2006 1:05 am |
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It depends, actually. Technically they broke the law by coming in here, and they are here illegally and should therefore face some sort of punishment for their criminal acts. However, very few are deported in America, even though it's really what they're pretty much supposed to do, if that makes much sense.
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"Rights are only as good as the willingness of some to exercise responsibility for those rights- Fmr. Colorado Senate Pres. John Andrews
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Jeff Miller
Fleet Admiral
Joined: 22 Nov 2001
Posts: 23947
Location: Mental Ward for the Mentaly Unstable 6th floor, Saint John's 1615 Delaware Longview Washington 98632
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| Mon May 29, 2006 1:06 am |
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| Republican_Man wrote: | Alright, first of all, I am amazed that Jeff Miller, whom I've always known to be a committed liberal, is taking a hard-line conservative stance. But that fact that he's taking such a hard-line conservative stance.
I agree with Founder on that one, for once. Shooting them at the border isn't the answer. As a matter of fact, that's the wrong way to go. It makes us a huge tyrant, one which we should not, and cannot afford to, be.
That being said, we do need stronger border security and, as Theresa said, it's a shame that it's come to this, the need to build a fence on private land to protect private property. Really shows you just how well our government has been doing its job. |
Ok, maybe Killing isn't the right way how about a Tazering system they get too close they get shocked? It's just that with Jobs being outsourced to other countries like they are, We need to protect whats left of ours.
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